Final Stocking List

[zackish]

What do you all think?

30 gallon planted aquarium:
7 cardinal tetras
7 Serpae tetras
1 pearl or honey gourami
3-4 oto cats

Too much, too little, just right?

[gm72]

Sounding about right to me. If you have experience, very good filtration, and do weekly water changes that are of significance, like at least 30-50%, you could stock more. I'd recommend however that you just stick with what you have listed there for starters and see what your water parameters do over time.

[troy]

Serpaes can be fin nippers, but with that number they probably won't be fin nippers.

[Fishguy2727]

I would hold off on the gourami and go with a bottom cleaner instead. I would go with a small loach species or a small school of cories. If you go with a higher stocking level (nice big canister and decent water changes will allow for this) I would up the numbers on both schools of tetras. Either that or replace the serpaes with more cardinals, a big school of thriving cardinals is a sight to watch, for a long time. Considered rams at all?

[zackish]

I would hold off on the gourami and go with a bottom cleaner instead. I would go with a small loach species or a small school of cories. If you go with a higher stocking level (nice big canister and decent water changes will allow for this) I would up the numbers on both schools of tetras. Either that or replace the serpaes with more cardinals, a big school of thriving cardinals is a sight to watch, for a long time. Considered rams at all?

Aren't blue rams a cichlid which are aggresive?
Anyways, that is my starter list and after a while if things are running smooth I am going to purchase a larger canister filter (300 gph or so). I will do water changes every week or so as well.
If I don't get the serpae I might get some harlequin rasboras. If you guys think the serpae are really that nippy maybe I should get the rasboras. I like the rummynose but to me they are too much alike the cardinals/neons.

[cocoa_pleco]

rams are generally peaceful for cichlids and often keep to themselves like kribs

[zackish]

rams are generally peaceful for cichlids and often keep to themselves like kribs


Ya those look really cool, I like gouramis though which is why I wanted one and I had cichlids before and they like to hide a lot and rip up my plants.
Also, would yoyo loaches be a good idea instead of the oto cats maybe?

I also read that blue rams like acidic PH. I was planning on leaving my PH at 7.6 so how would that work with blue rams or can they really adapt to that much alkalinity?

[SkarloeysMom]

What do you all think?

30 gallon planted aquarium:
7 cardinal tetras
7 Serpae tetras
1 pearl or honey gourami
3-4 oto cats

Too much, too little, just right?

As FishGuy said, I would go with a shoal of corys instead of otos. They are definitely more fun to watch. Otos do their job but they are not very active in the daytime in my experience.

[nanaglen2001]

A nice Cory would be the Corydoras panda. Stays small is active and great to watch when the animals take over the aquarium bottom.

[NeonJulie]

As FishGuy said, I would go with a shoal of corys instead of otos. They are definitely more fun to watch. Otos do their job but they are not very active in the daytime in my experience.

Some people have this experience, some people don't... it's not my experience at all. All of the Otos I've had, once I got the number above 2, are always out. They are the fastest to acclimate, least stressed, and are more active than my neons. They all line up on my driftwood, or chase eachother. Originally I was planning on shrimp, because I thought Otos with their water requirements and sensitivity would be too much trouble - everyday I'm happy I reconsidered. They're probably my favorite fish in my whole tank.

It could be the origins of the Otos, whether they are captive bred or caught, or it could be too much bright light, not enough plant security, or not enough of them to feel secure? Mine were hiding a bit until I put the third one back in and rearranged the plants and added even more decor.

Also, most of the tetra families don't school tightly if there isn't a larger fish present. You can have nothing but small fish, but having had both types of tanks, I feel that not having a large fat bodied fish makes the tank look somewhat empty, and the small fish won't have the personality of the large one.

Yes I think you should reconsider serpae tetras - I've heard bad cases of them with bettas and while gouramis are faster, they are still somewhat similar. Dwarf or honey gouramis seem to have issues anyhow with stress, I wouldn't want to add to it.

[zackish]

I was thinking of going with some corys but I was told they get to big, I will look into the smaller ones.

[Fishguy2727]

I was not suggesting cories or loaches instead of ottos, but in addition to them. There are two types of maintenance fish, suckers (ottos, plecos, whiptails, etc.), and cleanup crews (cories, loaches, etc.). I would definitely go with ottos. They are a small sucker and one of very few that would not bother live plants (in general). And as for a cleanup crew, a school of cories (pandas being a smaller species would be a good choice, although you could also do well with one of the medium species) or a small school of a small species of loach would also do well. I think the cories would be more appropriate though.

Cardinals need a lower pH. I have seen them listed at 4.0-6.0, but I think 7.0 would be a max. Most are wild baught because they are so plentiful in their natural range (from what I have read), but Petsmart carries only captive bred animals and the last time I was there they had cardinal tetras. These would be more suited to a higher pH of 6.5-7.0. I would suggest using a buffer such as Proper pH to get the pH there and hold it. I would not suggest putting them in any higher than 7.0.

[zackish]

I was not suggesting cories or loaches instead of ottos, but in addition to them. There are two types of maintenance fish, suckers (ottos, plecos, whiptails, etc.), and cleanup crews (cories, loaches, etc.). I would definitely go with ottos. They are a small sucker and one of very few that would not bother live plants (in general). And as for a cleanup crew, a school of cories (pandas being a smaller species would be a good choice, although you could also do well with one of the medium species) or a small school of a small species of loach would also do well. I think the cories would be more appropriate though.

Cardinals need a lower pH. I have seen them listed at 4.0-6.0, but I think 7.0 would be a max. Most are wild baught because they are so plentiful in their natural range (from what I have read), but Petsmart carries only captive bred animals and the last time I was there they had cardinal tetras. These would be more suited to a higher pH of 6.5-7.0. I would suggest using a buffer such as Proper pH to get the pH there and hold it. I would not suggest putting them in any higher than 7.0.

That's weird because anywehre I have seen seems like they can be put in pretty much anything, now that you say that I am going to do a little more searching around on them. And because of the caution against serpae tetras I think I am going to look into harlequin rasboras.

Also, one more question. Would it be possible to have a blue ram and a gourami along with those other fish I listed?
Also, do the blue rams dwell mainly on the bottom and like to hide a lot like other cichlids?

[Fishguy2727]

Just to keep things tidy, if you are replying to the last post, you do not need to quote. If you want to emphasize something in particular that you are replying to, a quote of just that is all that is needed.

Cardinals are pretty sensitive. Double check and let me know what you find.

Rams are mainly bottom dwellers and would like a small cave or enclosed driftwood area to claim as home territory.

What type of gourami? Many get to be large and aggressive, while other species will stay small and work well. In the end I do not think they fit the biotope you are going with and would discourage you putting them in your tank.

[zackish]

I am thinking about a pearl or honey gourami, just one.
Also, if gourami don't fit my tank then what would they fit?

One more question, would a krib and a Blue Ram be able to go in the same tank?

And on the cardinal tetras, I found that it says 6.8-7.5 PH on this site and up to 7.5 on a few other sites. Rasboras are the same and at most of the LFS's I find Rasboras in with the cardinal/neon tetras so it seems to me that they should be fine.

[Fishguy2727]

What sites? The best site for info like this is fishbase.org, which lists them at 4.0-6.0. I would go as high as 7.0, but that's it. They may do okay for a while in a pH higher than that if they are acclimated really slowly, but probably won't get near as good of coloration or the lifespan as they would in a lower pH. We get them in at work and they will usually die unless they go in the 20 gallon that somehow stays from 5.0-6.5.

I think a 30 is too small for kribs and rams, but in a larger tank it would probably be fine (if their pHs match, which I can't remember right now).

Since they are native to India and surrounding areas, they would be best left to a tank for that biotope.

[zackish]

The gouramis are native to india?
I was just planning on getting them because they seemed like a good community fish.
Also, does driftwood lower PH? And what else can I use to naturally lower the PH?

[NeonJulie]

Yes they are... it's why I was planning on naming my dwarf an Indian name... Sanja. At least... until Sanjaya from American Idol appeared. (Just ruined it for me.) But I ramble.

Anyway, driftwood does lower the pH a little, which is nice, and most fish really enjoy them. Peat moss can also be used to lower pH naturally. Or you can do like me and use bottled spring water in careful mixtures. There's also some natural products like Blackwater Extract that try to use peat moss and decayed material like in an amazon river, to mimic the natural acidic properties and nutrients found in those environments..

[Fishguy2727]

Most of the natural things are not too effective and/or discolor the water. The buffer really is the safest and most effective way. Proper pH is letting my discus do quite well.

[zackish]

Most of the natural things are not too effective and/or discolor the water. The buffer really is the safest and most effective way. Proper pH is letting my discus do quite well.

I am just weary about the PH buffers because I heard stability with fish tanks is more important. With my old tank I seemed to have no luck with the PH buffer. I would add drops and drops and drops and drops and nothing would ever raise my PH....I had cichlids at that time. Also, I don't wanna have to keep adding that stuff and try to keep it constant. My PH right now is at a solid 7.5

[Fishguy2727]

There is a difference between buffers and directional pH adjusters. Buffers will bring it to the specific pH and hold it there for an extended period of time, at least between water changes which is when you add it. Stability is very important and that is why I use a buffer instead of a directional adjuster. Directional adjusters only bring the pH eithe rup or down, and can overshoot the target pH as well as let it go back to normal the next day. Trust me, if buffers weren't good I wouldn't use it for peacocks and especially the discus. I use a buffer because I do not want to keep checking my pH. I tested it a lot when I first started using it and it help it right at the desired pH. Now I don't even check pH ever because I know it is where the buffer puts it. If you use natural things like peat and extracts you will need to monitor your pH daily and adjust as needed to keep it right.

[zackish]

Could you reccommend some "buffers" or whatever you use in your tank to lower the PH?

[Fishguy2727]

I use and highly recommend Proper pH by API.

[cocoa_pleco]

I use and highly recommend Proper pH by API.


i second that. works well

[Chrona]

You can't use Proper pH in a planted tank. It's a phosphate based buffer and will throw your nutrient levels way out of wack.

Don't worry about the pH. Once you start CO2 injection, it will drop a good 1.0. (not that it matters to the fish)

[Fishguy2727]

The cardinals will care, and some of the others may, but I would definitely not put cardinals in anything above 7.0.

I forgot the Proper pH wasn't good for planted tanks.

[SkarloeysMom]

So I'm using Seachem's Neutral Regulator as a water conditioner because of our tap water's ammonia and very high Ph levels. Does that mean I cannot put live plants in there. Is it a Phosphate based buffer too?

I hope I'm not highjacking this thread but this question just occured to me since I was hoping to add live plants to my 10g soon.