Noob needs help - save fish and cure ick during cycle?

[Doug G]

Hoping some experienced folks can help me out. My 1st grader brought home a female guppy and snail from his classroom. Wife bought a 6gal marineland kit at petco. Set it up (using water conditioner) let it run for 24hrs and then introduced the guppy and snail. Of course the kids want more fish so we add a gold dust molly, a neon tetra, and a silver tip tetra. The silver tip goes back to the store in a day since its bullying everyone. Guy at the store asks me why I only bought a single neon, well silly girl didn't tell me I needed more! I tell him its only a 6gal and cycling, he suggests two more neons so we get them. Only now after some reading do I see how absolutely irresponsible these employees were in these recommendations. Well, no more trips to that store for me.

I acclimated all the fish prior to introducing them as rec'd - bag soak 20min, water mixing every 5min, then eventual net and release. I also bought a heater and water temp is 79. I also added 2tbsp of freshwater aquarium salt.

Well, yesterday morning the original Neon turned up dead. Although I was vaguely aware of cycling I had no idea it couldn't really be done without killing the fish. So now I'm trying to complete the process and save everyone I can. The guppy and molly seem OK, but the other two neons seem to spend most of their time in a corner just sitting there, although they do eat. Sometimes one chases the other, not sure if thats a sign of sickness in one? They might be breathing a little heavy, hard to tell. I did a 1/3 water change yesterday, and another 1/3 again this morning, can definitely smell the ammonia in the water. That's when I notice the ick on the tail of the Guppy which appeared overnight. After some reading I learn that treatments can't really be done during a cycle as it will kill even the good bacteria. I see a recommendation that an increased salt concentration to 2-3tbsp/5gal for a week may help with the ick so I mixed a solution for that amount and slowly introduced it to the tank.

Before the first water change did a test and it came up pH 7.2-7.4 and ammonia level .5 on the scale. Using the charted value of 1.5 for 79/7.4pH that should be about .75ppm? Or is it 7.5ppm? I have no idea how to read the scale and the instructions are very poor.

Sorry for the long contorted description. At this point I'm committed to finishing the cycling. Is there any way I can save the remaining fish and clear up the ick at the same time or is this all a lost cause?

[cocoa_pleco]

treat the ich and do alot of water changes

[Lady Hobbs]

It's always nice to have a quarantine tank for this reason to keep your fish in for a couple weeks and treat if needed. Not everyone has this extra tank, obviously. I haven't bought a new fish for 6 months so obviously keeping an extra tank around can also be a nuisance but I just keep a few danio's in it to keep a cycle going. It is helpful at times to have this extra tank as a hospital tank.

I was reading on a site that sells fish that they acculimate their fish by adding ONE drop of Ick Cure to each bag of fish. I never tried that myself but it sounded like a novel idea. Never add the water to your tank that your fish come in, either. Net them out of their water.

They open the bag and attach to a clothespin on the side of the tank. Pour in a bit of tank water and one drop of Ick Cure and let the fish remain in the bag for 15 minutes. I may try this and see how it works.

[Doug G]

So treating the ick won't affect my cycle adversely? That would be great news.

Can someone qualify "a lot of water changes." Is once per wk alot, or more like once per day? Can changing too much too often be a bad thing? I think I'll plan to do 1/3 water changes every other day for the next several weeks until the cycling begins to wind down. Would that be about the right amount?

Just re-tested and pH still at 7.4 and toxic ammonia came back somwhere between .0075 and .015ppm, so maybe a teeny stress factor but not at the .05ppm level I've read where the danger zone starts.

[kimmers318]

Trying to treat while cycling as you found is not going to be easy. I have had good luck in the past with plain stresscoat and water changes except with clown loaches which is a completely different ball game. You will want to do small daily water changes according to how much ammonia and nitrite you have in the tank to help keep it in check, and try adding stresscoat at the rate recommended for damaged skin/fins. I use the squirt bottle so it is 1 squirt per gallon.
You can also try using some prime, which I have heard is successful in detoxifying ammonia and nitrites during a cycle but leaving it still available for the cycling bacteria to culture and eat it up. The only downfall to that is that prime also affects most water test kits and your tests will still read positive, they can't tell the difference between "bad" ammonia and detoxified ammonia, so it will continue to read positive. You can buy a different test kit, not sure which one it is, to get correct readings using the prime.
Good luck!

[Sasquatch]

It'll be tough, but if you persist you'll eventually get to the end of it.

What are you using to treat the ich? We have a Malachite Green solution and it doesn't seem to affect the cycle, then again it's not good with neons. At this best point, salt and Stresscoat are probably your best bet.

As for water changes, daily, or every other day with 20%-30% of the water changed. It'll keep the ammonia and nitrites down, but it'll slow down the cycle. We did this with our 5 gal quarantine tank and it worked. We used a 5gal water jug for camping to age the water, or you can use a bunch of 1gal jugs. Make sure to always treat with water conditioner.

One thing to keep in mind, you're going to be doing this for 1.5-2 months. It's tough, but if you want to minimise fish losses that's what needs to be done. Check the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels daily and when the first two get to 0 and stay there, you can slow down on the water changes (1/week).

Best of luck.

[RobbieG]

You can also treat ICH with higher water temp and some aquarium salt

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This may be a little easier than trying not to OD you fish on medication, you just need to remember to ONLY add the amount of salt needed for the water you add for the water change (and I'd keep it low).

[Doug G]

Its been 3 days now since I upped the salt concentration and with a maintained temp of 79 the ick seems to be gone from the guppy and thankfully hasn't appeared on any of the other fish either. Ammonia and pH still steady at prior readings above as of this morning. I'm going to maintain this salt level for the next 4-5 days then gradually decrease back to 1tbsp/5gal levels with water changes at that time if things continue to improve.

[kimmers318]

Glad to hear the ICK problem is going well. You might want to continue the treatment for 10-14 days as there may still be unhatched ICK in your tank that were not killed. As I understand it, they can only be killed in the freeswimming stage between egg and attaching to a fish. If you don't kill all the little hatchlings as they hatch they can reinfect your fish.

[gm72]

Kimmers is absolutely correct. Continue the treatment even after visible signs of infection have resolved.

[RobbieG]

Kimmers is absolutely correct. Continue the treatment even after visible signs of infection have resolved.

Exactly - the ICH can only be killed when its free swimming (meaning its not making big obvious spots on your fish) so you are really only getting rid of it when it looks like it went away

[Mdsuave13]

Crank the temp up to 85 deg (your fish will be ok with the temp, it causes the Ich to go thru its life cycle faster)

Get some Aquari-sol, do the recomended 12 drops per gallon (its a much milder version of Ich treatment) Keep treating the tank daily with the 12 drops per gallon until about 2-3 days after the last signs of Ich are gone. Do your water changes as needed to keep ammonia and nitrites down... (just don't clean the gravel)