loach keels over first day :((

[Mr. Koi]

ive read on forums that loaches are hiders, and sometimes play "opposum" play dead..then swims around like nothing...well today my lil brother in law bought a clown loach as well as 10 med goldfish and added it to our 10G tank to mingle with the rest of our fishies. i also bought 3 more butterfly koi and they all are swimming beautifully and mingling together as if they been swimming together forever! :p but my concern is that couple hours later...the loach is dead! im pretty sure its dead. i poked it with a chop stick and it didnt move. is the loach's behavior normal? but Y did it die?? im so sad...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p62/finefilipinoboi/ourfishies_9555.jpg
10G tank
4 butterfly koi
1 honey gourami
3 lobsters
10 little goldfishes
5 lrg goldfishes

[Lady Hobbs]

Clowns are very skittish and he may have died from stress or the change of temp. Man, your tank is wayyyyyyy over-crowded!

[Chrona]

How long did you acclimate it for?

And if you just bought those goldfish/koi today, you need to return them asap. I can guarantee you most, if not all of those fish will be dead in a few days from the enormous ammonia spike that will come. Your current biological filtration capacity can't even hope to cope with that much waste.

Also, what temp is the tank at? Looks like 80 degrees....

[Mr. Koi]

How long did you acclimate it for?

And if you just bought those goldfish/koi today, you need to return them asap. I can guarantee you most, if not all of those fish will be dead in a few days from the enormous ammonia spike that will come. Your current biological filtration capacity can't even hope to cope with that much waste.

Also, what temp is the tank at? Looks like 80 degrees....
yes its 80 degrees. it gets up there when i have the light on...

i use AMMO LOCK to keep the ammonia down. thats whats its for. so if the ammo reading on my meter gets high (which it never does) i add 5ml of it to the tank. the reading NEVER goes past .02 by then...i change the water anyways...other than over stock...is there anything serious im doing right? i thought i was on the right track. :(

[Chrona]

yes its 80 degrees. it gets up there when i have the light on...

i use AMMO LOCK to keep the ammonia down. thats whats its for. so if the ammo reading on my meter gets high (which it never does) i add 5ml of it to the tank. the reading NEVER goes past .02 by then...i change the water anyways...other than over stock...is there anything serious im doing right? i thought i was on the right track. :(

80 degrees is way too warm for goldfish/koi. They are coldwater fish, meaning temps in the 60's. Furthermore, warm water can't hold as much oxygen, and this will especially be an issue with so many fish in such a small tank. At a higher temperature, goldfish metabolism skyrockets too, which means even more waste.

Ammo lock should not be a regular way of bringing ammonia down. In a mature tank, you should not be getting ammonia period, as the bacteria breaks it down for you. If you do have ammonia constantly, then you are doing something wrong (in this case, washing everything weekly) With the 13 new goldfish/koi in the tank, I don't think even daily water changes could keep up. Ammo lock may bind the ammonia, but it's still in the water and is able to be broken down into nitrites and nitrates

[Lady Hobbs]

Loaches are social fish and need several of their own. They also can not tolerate ammonia and nitrites levels.

I don't mean to be a B**** but your tank is so overcrowded I don't know how anything is still alive. A bathtub would not be large enough for all those fish.

[Mr. Koi]

what?! with the fish i have so far...your telling me i need an ocean, sarcastically speaking, for these kois and goldfishes?

so with this 10G and with the fish i have right now...what is exseptable for a ten gallon? is the livery too much also?

[crackatinny]

I have to agree with the majority here, I am surprised you have not lost more fish, the tank is way way overstocked, oxygen comes from the surface, and with all those fish gulpling up that oxygen, it must be in very short supply.

[Chrona]

He just got the goldfish/koi today, that's why. The ammonia meter will be off the scale pretty soon :/

Like I said, 55+g minimum for the fish at their current size. 180+ for adult size, and the koi will have to be kept outside (koi sometimes reach over 3 feet)

Acceptable stocking for a 10g would be something like 1 dwarf gourami and a few small schooling fish like tetras (like 6 or so) that only grow to be 1-2 inches each.

[Chrona]

Anyways, I'm not trying to be a pain in the a--, only trying to help out and make life a little easier. I killed my share of fish too, and I wish someone had done the same for me when I started.

[Lady Hobbs]

I was being conserative when I said 1 foot. They are from the carp family and not only are dirty fish, they get humungous as Chrona mentioned. They are not for indoor living.

All goldfish are cold water fish and do not belong with warm bloodied fish which is why you don't see them together in the stores. Even many of the goldfish get huge and need a 10 gallon just for themselves alone.

You'd be better off to get rid of all of them and start over with just some small fish for that 10 gallon. Maybe a FEW tetra's (like 5 or 6) and some cory's or maybe some rasbora's and cory's.

By tomorrow you water will be full of toxins from adding so many fish all at once. You'll need to do large water changes if you want anything to live past a day or two.

[Lady Hobbs]

Big fish=Big tank
Little fish=little tank

[Mr. Koi]

oh no your not being an A$$...i just wish i knew all this stuff before hand...i thought i knew about this hobby...i guess i got ALOT more research and reading to go...thanks chrona!

[Nautilus291]

even walmart keeps there goldfish away from warm water fish. everyone is right either dig a pond in your back yard or take back those fish.

Goldfish are what I would say are the biggest reason people stop keeping aquariums. Someone new like myself once thinks oh I want to keep an aquarium. so you go out buy a 10g tank and then throw one or a couple of goldfish in there not realizing that they get big and are really dirty fish. ANd then the fish die and you just say screw it im done.

luckily I found this site or I wouldnt have a 55g tank with some amazing looking fish in there.

[crackatinny]

Overstocking is one of the VERY common mistakes in fishkeeping, up there with cycling.

Do some googling, look up "aquarium fish stocking calculator"
Also search for profiles on your various fish, most profiles will tell you how big they get, there temp requirements etc,

[cocoa_pleco]

im not trying to be a @$$ either, but that is overstocked. a 100g with a canister filter could maybe handle that.

The reason is goldfish have little intestine tract or stomachs. that means they eat, then it comes out of the other end faster than other fish, making them messier.

I killed my share of fish in the beginning, and we just dont want you to make the same mistake:22:

[Mark Lathrop]

I'd say get some liquid test kits too for PH, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Just more accurate and they come with pamphlets with good info. as well.

Crystal clear water is not really a reliable way of telling if your water is toxic or not. I killed many fish in crystal clear water but my ammonia levels were sky high!

[RobbieG]

yes its 80 degrees. it gets up there when i have the light on...

i use AMMO LOCK to keep the ammonia down. thats whats its for. so if the ammo reading on my meter gets high (which it never does) i add 5ml of it to the tank. the reading NEVER goes past .02 by then...i change the water anyways...other than over stock...is there anything serious im doing right? i thought i was on the right track. :(

You are doing the right thing by asking questions. We all are learning every day!

[kenyth]

Holy crap! You've got more and larger fish than my 30 gallon and I thought I was pushing the limit!

Seriously, get rid of all the goldfish and Koi. Stick to small tetras (less than 2 inches full grown) and you can have eight fish as long as you have both a power filter and an UG filter.

Wow! The fish folks will try to squeeze into a ten gallon starter tank never fails to amaze me.

[crackatinny]

I think mr koi has learned now from his mistakes, as he has said.

Lets just try to give him some positive help now aye, we have all learned from our mistakes.:27:

Well I have anyway.

[bscman]

Those looke like regular feeder goldies...they will get to be 12-16" in length on average (as adults)...some being recorded as large as 24" in length. They can also live up to 30+ years.

First thing should be to remove almost all of those fish. That 10 gallon, with the fish of that size, should have no more than one or two fish (with excellent filtration). Then start looking for a larger tank--sooner is better!

I have about twenty feeders/comets that are less than a year old, and are now approaching 8" in length. They grow quickly.

I can tell just by the pic that many of your goldies are stressed, and probably already feeling the affects of the ammonia spike that is occuring as well as the lack of room to swim. What everyone else is telling you is dead correct. Those fish WILL die if left in their current state.

When you add new fish to a tank (especially a 10g) you should never add more than one fish at a time. Adding a bunch of fish will cause chaos with the biology of your tank. Your ammonia levels will spike, and that is what will kill your fish. It won't take long at all (a few days, max). This is probably why your loach died--goldfish are very hardy when it comes to ammonia, the loaches are not so much.

[Mdsuave13]

I was reading this post and felt obligated to join up and put in my 2 cents worth....

It is not a truth that goldfish or Koi for that matter cannot sustain a life of happiness in a tropical tank, BUT i would consider 80 degrees a bit warm for average temps in a tank. That is more of a temp i would use when treating a tank for Ich or maybe when doing a lazy mans water change without matching temps first.

I have a 55 gallon tank that has less fish then that (don't worry i made a similar mistake myself buying 3 6" koi fish and having them in my 55 gallon.... They got so big i had to build an outdoor pond for them...)

Also, the clown loaches are VERY finnicky fish, they are tough to keep happy in a correct environment. You Pretty much need to build your tank around them (not to mention they get to be massive 10-16")They will keel over at the slightest traces of ammonia, nitrites or chlorine... I wouldn't really recommend them to beginners.

I would take your fish back, and try something really cool/ but easy to work with. Get yourself a couple sailfin mollies (get a lil container of aquarium salt) and maybe a few neon tetras (6 if you have a pretty good filter and want to keep on top of water changes weekly) Or you can always go with 6 tiger barbs... get 3 green and 3 normal. That is close to overstocking just by itself, but tiger barbs are really neat fish. (and easy to take care of)

Just remember to take your time stocking it. Otherwise you could have a lot of problems (disease, ammonia/nitrite spikes)

Good luck Mr Koi!

[kenyth]

Yeah, sorry. Didn't mean to beat a dead horse. Folks generally do this stuff in ignorance after seeing the way the store tanks are stocked. What most don't realize is the filtration gadgetry behind the wall. Store tank systems are HEAVILY filtered and aerated. On place I saw had a huge 6 ft tall trickle filter built using a plastic kiddie wading pool!

[Mdsuave13]

I was always amazed by my LFS because they have their fish stocked pretty well. They tend to spread them out over multiple tanks. But they do have like 15,000-20,000 Gallons of tank space.. If you live in maryland or nearby you should check out House of Tropicals. They get in some REALLY wild fish, both salt and freshwater.