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View Full Version : Mom was right - sometimes life isn't fair.



Brhino
07-28-2010, 07:24 PM
A mostly pointless rant.

I've been keeping fish for seven months now and I've been a member of these forums for the last five. Obviously, my experience is very limited, but I still try to help people even newer than me when they have problems. I'm able to do this because of my obsessive interest in reading all about everything related to the hobby and a good memory for things I've seen and read. I can't tell someone how to get their bolivian rams to spawn or what kind of deficiency their amazon swords are experiencing, but I understand all the newbie mistakes and their solutions.

Every time I read someone's thread that's a variation of "Help! My six goldfish in my five gallon tank are not doing well!", I took pride in the knowledge that I was doing things the "right" way with my goldfish. I got them a large tank that would accommodate even their full-grown adult sizes. I used proper filtration and maintenance routines. I paid attention to their diet. I constantly asked for criticism and suggestions for improvement. While people all over the world would be shrugging their shoulders and replacing dead goldfish every few months or years because they didn't know or didn't care about the proper way to care for them, my fish were going to grow large and become old because I wasn't like those people.

And then one of my goldfish got sick.

Identifying and treating fish illness is a bit more involved than the basic beginner stuff I have mastered. Still, I did as much reading as I could, got as much advice as I could, and took what actions I thought were best based on the information I could find. I may not have done everything exactly right, but it wasn't for lack of trying. I felt frustrated because almost every description of any fish malady includes a statement that the disease is brought on by poor water conditions, improper feeding, or the like. There are no common goldfish diseases that are described as striking without warning in well-maintained aquariums. And yet, that's what happened, unless I made a critical mistake that neither I nor anyone else has noticed yet.

And then the goldfish died.

Strictly speaking this is the fourth fish in our care that has died out of the twenty we have purchased in the last seven months. The other three all died within 14 days of introduction, which was distressing to my fish keeping ego but somewhat more understandable. This time is different. The fish lived and thrived in my care long enough that its unquestionable that whatever lead to its death was my doing. I took in a fish with a reputation for hardiness and longevity and ended up killing it. Some people will say "these thing just happen", but in my mind that saying is used far too often (in life in general, not just in fish keeping) when the reality is that more intelligence and more diligence could have prevented the problem.

I love my aquariums. Money and available space are the only reasons I don't have a half dozen more. But at the end of the day, if I have to chose between being a fish keeper that is not able to successfully care for his fish and a person who doesn't keep fish at all, I would chose to not keep fish at all. Today I'm wondering if it's a choice I'll have to make some day.

This isn't a surrender. I'm sure we'll get a new "replacement" goldfish. My very first canister filter is on its way here right now, which (in parallel with my HoB filter) should raise the filtration on the tank from "acceptable" to "excellent". I'm just depressed that I've tried so hard to do everything right but achieved results worse than many people who have done things very very wrong.

Thank you to Scrup and Spardas for providing advice, and to everyone else that offered sympathy and encouragement.

Rue
07-28-2010, 08:30 PM
Not pointless at all...sometimes, despite the best care and attention, things don't work out.

My 55 g goldfish tank isn't doing as well as I had hoped either. Not sure why. Water/ filtration/ food are all good. But the goldfish don't survive as long as they should, nor do they seem to grow as fast as they should.

Lack of growth could be due to the cold water. Tank sits at 65 F in the winter and around 70 in the summer.

It's not a disease, since they only die one at a time - without any obvious signs. And months or years can go by without any deaths...and then there will be several in short succession...

These are 'cheap' LFS fancies...I wonder how much of a role genetics plays...

Not to mention...many years ago, I kept 3 goldfish in a 5 g tank beside my kitchen sink. I did complete water changes every 2 weeks (if I remember correctly) including rinsing out all the gravel and only had a sponge filter in the unit. The fish did great for several years! They finally died because I brought in a new fish that had ich - the entire tank crashed within a couple of days.

So I actually had better luck doing it all 'wrong'...

ohmikeosh
07-28-2010, 09:34 PM
Its funny how things work. When we were growing up we had a goldfish we won at a school fair we kept it in a bowl that was probably a gallon. We had no gravel, no decorations, and no filter nothing but a small glass bowl. 100 percent water change once a week. That fish lived for almost 15 years. Obviously that was when we were kids and I would never even consider doing that again. Knowing what I know now I feel terrible we kept him like that. Maybe it comes down to genetics and how they are breed. I dont know some people do everything wrong and have better luck then us who do everything right. Thats good that it upsets you. You do everything right and are giving the fish a much better life than most people could, so be happy with that.

Spardas
07-28-2010, 09:40 PM
Don't feel too badly on yourself. You've done what you can and went out of your way to ensure you're giving proper care to your fishes. This isn't the norm by any mean in this hobby. There's always something else to learn everyday in this hobby. It's even good to refresh your memories on some things as you can forget because I forget a lot of minor details from time to time on things about the hobby.

As far as medicating go, I'd like you to learn about PP and using it as a treatment. It's dangerous but if done correctly; it yields result. Maybe invest in a microscope and some tools to open up a fish. It's a whole new world under the scope, lol.

7 months of fishkeeping and only 4 dead out of 20 is better than most already. But I must remind you, not all of the fishes that you get from the LFS are the best in quality and some may already harbor pathogens that's just waiting for an opportunity to take hold of the fish.

When I breed discus, angels, and other kind of cichlids back then; I would regularly cull fishes for deformities and defects. I only want to strengthen the bloodline and get the best of the best. During that process, I also made sure to treat the parents to make sure they're free from pathogens. After that, even the fries are treated and I also ran some experiments to see which method works best, etc. Unlike me, wild caught fishes or most farm raised fishes won't go through such a process to weed out genetic defects or have good QT procedures in place. They will have a higher chance of casualties than fishes that are chosen carefully and cleaned from pathogens. If they did what I did, it'll cut into their profit margin greatly. Anyway, I digress.

The point is, you have done more than what the typical fish keeper would have done. It's a learning process and as long as you're willing to dedicate yourself to continuously improving your skills and knowledge; then you are always ahead of the game. I'm a believer of kaizen and I believe it should be applied into everything we do. This would include fish keeping.

Lab_Rat
07-28-2010, 11:11 PM
You keep fancy goldfish, right? Just remember, the fish that are line bred for certain characteristics (fancy goldfish, "balloon" shaped fish, EBJDs, etc) often have internal deformities that may not be noticeable from the exterior, until their organs outgrow their bodies, they get suddenly sick or just up and die. EBJDs have a huge mortality rate before they hit the magical 3-4" mark, because of the extensive linebreeding/inbreeding done to get their blue coloration. It's frustrating, but I've had 3 die on me without warning, all the other species in the tank were fine (sensitive species too). You can't take it personally, and as long as you're doing the best you can for your fish then that's what matters.

Sasquatch
07-28-2010, 11:37 PM
You're seven months in and have only lost 4 fish ... you're doing very well.

"These thing just happen" may often be a convenient excuse ... but sometimes ... well ... these kind of thing happen. I'm 15 years into the hobby and have a PhD in fish metabolism. I still had trouble cycling a 5g a few weeks back!

Don't give up on things, you've got other goldfish still under your care and I'm sure they're happy.

One little suggestion though, before introducing any new fish into the aquarium, I'd strongly suggest putting them into quarantine. You don't want a fish store goldie developing ich in your established aquarium ... trust me on that one!

Brhino
07-29-2010, 12:02 AM
Lab_Rat - that's a good point. I guess most of the people that keep goldfish in horrible conditions but manage to keep them alive for years have common goldfish, which are probably sturdier.

Sasquatch - the one good thing about all this is that I now have a spare 10g tank. I could pick up a sponge filter and set that up as a quarantine tank.

Lab_Rat
07-29-2010, 12:13 AM
Yeah, commons are like cockroaches...really hard to kill. It's why the myth of goldies being ok in a bowl is perpetuated.

Trillianne
07-29-2010, 01:45 AM
Brhino,

Don't be discouraged. Having a pet die under mysterious circumstances is frustrating and heartrending. (I've been there) There are many animal diseases that are relatively unknown, even to vets. And a large number of people do not take their fish to the vet either, which makes it harder to get info on less common issues.

That isn't to discredit any fish disease info we do know, just to say that I don't think we should consider it the be-all/end-all inclusive list of things that can go wrong.

As much as we want to think we know everything and can cure all ills, we can not. We struggle even with human illnesses and there is certainly a large number of people studying them. Fish don't even speak any translatable language. :sconfused: