New to plants, need some advice...

[Bill Brasky]

Hello there! As stated in my intro thread, I'm having a bit of a problem with my corkscrew and jungle vales. They're slowly browning in the middle and I don't know what I'm doing to cause that! :(

I've got an Anubias Nana and Bronze Wendtii as well and they're seemingly doing fine. I've got a 38 gallon tank with the standard All-Glass hood lamp (only 24" long @ 14w too!) and I'm using Kent Freshwater Plant liquid. Dosing was suggested to be about 1/2 second squeeze every day or 1 lid full twice a week. (Suggested dosing was 1-3 capfuls 1-3 times per week).

Tank has just been given a 50% water change a week after putting the driftwood in and it cleared up massively (I wasn't told that my water would look like tea after I put it in!), however, the vales are still browning! I want to add more plants and fish shortly (I should be done cycling) but don't want the new plants to die :(

As for lighting, I know I should have more light, even though the vales and other plants can deal with low light. I was looking at this lamp/hood (http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/204914/product.web) and was wondering if I'd have to get a glass top as well? Also, would a 96w bulb be too much for my tank? I was told anywhere from 80-100w would be good... will I be blinding my fish?

Picture of tank for some reference... (those squiggles are my rasboras :D)

http://gallery.upshizzle.com/albums/06.07/DSC_9203.JPG

Thanks guys for any help!

[hungryhound]

First off let me start with the easy stuff.



Tank has just been given a 50% water change a week after putting the driftwood in and it cleared up massively (I wasn't told that my water would look like tea after I put it in!), however, the vales are still browning! I want to add more plants and fish shortly (I should be done cycling) but don't want the new plants to die :(

The driftwood is releasing tannins into your water. They may lower your pH a little but are harmless. If you do not want them you can boil the drift wood to quickly rid it of all of the tannins.



As for lighting, I know I should have more light, even though the vales and other plants can deal with low light. I was looking at this lamp/hood (http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/204914/product.web) and was wondering if I'd have to get a glass top as well? Also, would a 96w bulb be too much for my tank? I was told anywhere from 80-100w would be good... will I be blinding my fish?

96 watts would allow you to grow anything that you wanted, but it can be a little bright. I have 96 watts over my 46 gallon (actaully it has two 96 watt bulbs but I am only using one) and it is fairly bright.

The biggest problem with going that high, is that you would be required to do CO2 injection. You may even have to do pressurized. Although I am currently running a DIY setup on my 46 gallon with good results, so it can be done cheaply if you are willing to do all the maintenance.

Keep in mind that it looks like you have a penguin biowheel on the back and you would most likely need to replace the biowheel to inject co2. The biowheel agitates the water too much for any CO2 to stay in solution and I personally could not get any consistent CO2 reading until I went with a canister instead.



Picture of tank for some reference... (those squiggles are my rasboras :D)


It looks like you have a nice start to your tank.

Edit: why does the light look so blue at the top. IS that an actinic bulb. That coudl be your problem.



As stated in my intro thread, I'm having a bit of a problem with my corkscrew and jungle vales. They're slowly browning in the middle and I don't know what I'm doing to cause that! :(

I've got an Anubias Nana and Bronze Wendtii as well and they're seemingly doing fine. I've got a 38 gallon tank with the standard All-Glass hood lamp (only 24" long @ 14w too!) and I'm using Kent Freshwater Plant liquid. Dosing was suggested to be about 1/2 second squeeze every day or 1 lid full twice a week. (Suggested dosing was 1-3 capfuls 1-3 times per week).

Thanks guys for any help!

It may be a matter of not having enough light, but I have some spirals under 10 watts in my 5 gallon and they do just fine. More lighting would definitely help them.

What is your water change schedule? Do you do the 50% change weekly as that combined with the kent should give you enough nutrients for your low light levels. I have a hard time thinking that it is nutrients, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

I would also suggest reading the sticky in the plants forum by Chrona on planted tanks.

[sergo]

on a 38 gal tank, 80-100w will be a bit too much without adding some serious co2 and ferts

[sergo]

on a 38 gal tank, 80-100w will be a bit too much without adding some serious co2 and fertswell never mind HH beat me

[hungryhound]

The more I look at that picture. The more that light looks like it is acitninic.

My guess is that your bulb is your problem. Most of the light that plants use is in the red and yellow spectrums. They do use some in the blue, but not enough to survive.

If that is the case then your bulb is acitinic and in the wrong spectrum. Your vals are slowly dieing because they are not getting enough light. The anubis is much hardier and may take a while to show the same symptoms.

You can probably change the bulb to a full spectrum bulb and expect to grow all of your plants that you currently have.

[Bill Brasky]

First off let me start with the easy stuff.



The driftwood is releasing tannins into your water. They may lower your pH a little but are harmless. If you do not want them you can boil the drift wood to quickly rid it of all of the tannins.


After that change, it's pretty much gone. It looks like it should clear with the next one.



96 watts would allow you to grow anything that you wanted, but it can be a little bright. I have 96 watts over my 46 gallon (actaully it has two 96 watt bulbs but I am only using one) and it is fairly bright.

The biggest problem with going that high, is that you would be required to do CO2 injection. You may even have to do pressurized. Although I am currently running a DIY setup on my 46 gallon with good results, so it can be done cheaply if you are willing to do all the maintenance.


Hermm.. is it possible to get lower wattage lights and put those inside? I do like the setup I have now, I just want more light so I can put a bit more interesting plants in there... that, and I'd like to actually see what I have!



Keep in mind that it looks like you have a penguin biowheel on the back and you would most likely need to replace the biowheel to inject co2. The biowheel agitates the water too much for any CO2 to stay in solution and I personally could not get any consistent CO2 reading until I went with a canister instead.


Even if the water level is high enough to be over the outlet of the biowheel?



It looks like you have a nice start to your tank.

Edit: why does the light look so blue at the top. IS that an actinic bulb. That coudl be your problem.


Thank you! The light is the standard All-Glass fluorescent. I don't know if it's actinic. I did adjust the white balance quite a bit, to be fair.




What is your water change schedule? Do you do the 50% change weekly as that combined with the kent should give you enough nutrients for your low light levels. I have a hard time thinking that it is nutrients, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

I would also suggest reading the sticky in the plants forum by Chrona on planted tanks.

Eeep! This is most likely where I'm wrong :( I just changed the water after the first fill 3 weeks ago! Do I really have to do 50% every week?! My little 2 gallon bucket can only take so much! :ssuprised:

I shall read this sticky! Thanks for your answers!

[Bill Brasky]

Heh, after reading the plant database you guys have (amazing, btw) it suggests I attach my Anubias to a stone to tree root with fishing line... should I? It would look fairly spiffy on that driftwood stump...

[hungryhound]

Heh, after reading the plant database you guys have (amazing, btw) it suggests I attach my Anubias to a stone to tree root with fishing line... should I? It would look fairly spiffy on that driftwood stump...

it is fine next to the stump, but you will need to pull the rihzome out of the gravel or it will rot. If you just leave the roots in the gravel it will be fine.

[hungryhound]

Hermm.. is it possible to get lower wattage lights and put those inside? I do like the setup I have now, I just want more light so I can put a bit more interesting plants in there... that, and I'd like to actually see what I have!

I am a little confused on the light that you choose. You state that the one on your tank currently is 24 inches long and then you link to a 36 inch fixture.

What exactly are the dimensions of your tank.




Even if the water level is high enough to be over the outlet of the biowheel?

Yes even if the water is higher than the return. I tried that and the biggest problem I had were the biowheels themselves. I had to remove them altogether from the filter.

You may be able to get it to work, but I had no luck with it.



Thank you! The light is the standard All-Glass fluorescent. I don't know if it's actinic. I did adjust the white balance quite a bit, to be fair.

Then it might not be an actinic bulb. I am a little unsure at this point as I am still not good at diagnosing nutrient problems.



Eeep! This is most likely where I'm wrong :( I just changed the water after the first fill 3 weeks ago! Do I really have to do 50% every week?! My little 2 gallon bucket can only take so much! :ssuprised:

I shall read this sticky! Thanks for your answers!

A 50% water change is not necessarily required every week, but it is good for the fish and plants. (I personally do a 50 percent on all of my fish tanks 46, 30, and 5 gallon and never lift a bucket, I love my python (http://www.pythonproducts.com/aqprod.html))

It is good to do a water change every week of atleast 25 to 50 percent.

[Bill Brasky]

I am a little confused on the light that you choose. You state that the one on your tank currently is 24 inches long and then you link to a 36 inch fixture.

What exactly are the dimensions of your tank.


36 1/4 Long x 12 5/8 Wide x 19 3/4 Deep (top to bottom)

the light fixture itself is 18-24" long inside a 36" long enclosure/reflector

basically, my tank is 36 inches long but it's only using a 18-24" lamp O.o If this sounds normal, then disregard my ranting lol.

edit: what exactly is a rihzome?

[Lady Hobbs]

Low light plants will do OK in 1-2 watts per gallon but most need at least 3 watts. Are you sure that isn't just brown algae on your plants? That's common in newly planted tanks. I had some that looked like that, cut a bunch of leaves off only to find it was algae and could be wiped off.

[Bill Brasky]

Low light plants will do OK in 1-2 watts per gallon but most need at least 3 watts. Are you sure that isn't just brown algae on your plants? That's common in newly planted tanks. I had some that looked like that, cut a bunch of leaves off only to find it was algae and could be wiped off.

If i try and wipe it off, it takes the middle right out... like it's rotted :(

[Chrona]

I've read that you need to clip off an entire leaf on a val and not just trim off the tip or it will rot, but then again, I've never had any luck growing them in my original lower light setup (standard 10g lights) tank so I don't know how valid my advice will be. I was faced with the similar problems: leaves just rotting off. Thus I think it's just a lack of lighting. For the time being, you can position the vals right underneath the lights as it doesn't look like they get the full blast from the pic.

[hungryhound]

edit: what exactly is a rihzome?

the rhzome is the part where the leaves and root attach to each other.

See picture

[xoolooxunny]

Vals are sensitive to harness levels in the water as well. I'm not 100% certain which one it is, that magazine is at work, but I think they like softer water, and absolutely no salinity.

[Bill Brasky]

the rhzome is the part where the leaves and root attach to each other.

See picture
ahhh okay, thanks kindly!

[coachfraley]

You have the best user name I have seen so far on this forum!

BILL BRASKY!

But seriously, I rubber banded my anubia to driftwood and the roots have responded pretty fast. The plant is not anchored yet, but I think it will look really cool when I can finally cut off the rubber and let the roots do all the work.
I am sure one of our experts can let you know about how long the anchoring process usually takes.

http://www.cshm.org/images/fraley/nana.jpg

BTW, if you decide not to buy the lamp, you could just do a low light, low maintenance setup. I don't remember where I saw it, but Chrona wrote a great post on setting up "low tech" tanks. Java fern is an awesome low tech plant, and you could attach a ton of it to that piece of driftwood you have. It would look awesome when it was grown out.

[Bill Brasky]

A slight update...

I talked to my LFS (great place, btw) and he did suggest more light. I scrapped the idea of that 96w light because I'm not prepared for that kind of upkeep and maintenance. My LFS suggested I go with the All-Glass (or any dual tube lamp housing) and a glass top. We were thinking more of something like a 40-60w setup. The lighting really is pitiful even if I didn't have plants.

Thanks for the anchoring tips about the nana! I did move it to the driftwood and it looks much better.

I'll be getting some more vals and some java fern/moss eventually! Thanks for the suggestions :)

[Bill Brasky]

I found out what was wrong with the vals!

Apparently, I had them burried too far in the substrate.... I pulled em up a bit this morning and already they've pepped up. I added 8 more vals and a red crypt along with another beautiful piece of driftwood.

Can't wait to add more fish to really make it look nice.

[hungryhound]

It sounds like you are off to a good start and I am glad to hear that your vals are recovering. I cannot wait to see the updated pics.

[Bill Brasky]

It sounds like you are off to a good start and I am glad to hear that your vals are recovering. I cannot wait to see the updated pics.

Ask and ye shall recieve!

http://gallery.upshizzle.com/albums/06.07/leftside.jpg

http://gallery.upshizzle.com/albums/06.07/rightside.jpg

I'm still having a slight tannin problem, but I filled my drop-in filter to the brim with charcoal and it's cut down on the tannin levels by a whole bunch! :c12:

edit: and even though most of my older vals looked dead, they all had runners on them with a few shoots coming out! :D There's something to be happy about!

[hungryhound]

I am sure that you will be fine. in My experience valas reproduce like crazy.

I have to say that I am a little jealous, as my spiral vals never spiraled in the 4 months I had them in the tank (i think mine were mislabled)

The piece of wood looks like a tree stump and is very cool.

It is nice to see everything looking good.

[Bill Brasky]

I am sure that you will be fine. in My experience valas reproduce like crazy.

I have to say that I am a little jealous, as my spiral vals never spiraled in the 4 months I had them in the tank (i think mine were mislabled)

The piece of wood looks like a tree stump and is very cool.

It is nice to see everything looking good.

the LFS has a BEAUTIFUL spiral val but he's not selling it... he wants to sell the shoots. Seriously, this thing is amazing! It's a HUGE val (maybe about 12 leaves) that's sitting in a 180g tank that's got maybe... 1 turn per inch on each leaf! It's amazing!