Lionhead, Ranchu or other?

[Xavier]

Hey, so I bought three goldfish recently. The store marked them as ranchu, but they admitted that when the box arrives from Asia, the goldfish are all in the same box. Are these Lionheads, Ranchus or a cross-breed of some kind?

First fish - Whiskey
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/xsldery/1a.jpg

Second Fish - Foxxy
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/xsldery/DSC03069.jpg

Second and Third Fish - Foxxy (left), Trixtey (Right)
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/xsldery/DSC03085.jpg

Let me know if I need to take more pictures :)

[VoidParadigm]

Ranchus, if actually bred properly. How long are they? The slight deformity (the bodies should be rounder) could either be due to age or improper breeding. Time will tell, most likely.

[little hawaii]

Ranchu for sure

[Xavier]

Without tails, they are about an inch. With I would say an inch and a half.

I didn't post a picture of it, but I had brought home one that was missing a gill cover. I returned it since that defect would cause health issues down the line.

VoidParadigm, in time, you're saying that the back, if these aren't badly bred, will become rounder?

[VoidParadigm]

Hopefully. At that size, it's possible they've just got some juvenile "deformity." (Some fish just looked weird as babies.) It's also possible that the batch you bought from was a group of culled fish - the breeder just getting rid of the worst-off specimens. And the stomach seems to stick out at a bit of a weird angle from the tail beginning, but again, could just be juvenile. I've not personally seen or experienced Ranchu fry growth, so for all I'm aware, that's normal for them, especially if they're just an inch. I'm leaning towards the culled theory, because "Whiskey" is still the color of a goldfish I would not say is old enough to be sold. Chances are s/he will lose that greyish brown over the next couple years, maybe even months, as it is a juvenile form of camoflauge.

I'd also suggest feeding them twice per day if you're not already, since they do at least appear to be still within the first year of life. So maybe just feed twice per day until they reach a two inch body. Supplementing the meals with lots of vegetation to graze on could help them fill out quicker.
(Most goldfish [should] get bought at age one and up. Pretty much the "teenager" stage is between 1 and 3 years of age. Then at 3 years + they are technically adults, but many won't have their full adult size yet.)

Additional irrelevant note, just for clearance of definition:
I personally consider any fish to be "Adult" at the age you should breed it, not the beginning age you can breed it.

[VoidParadigm]

Hm. Semi-correction. Maybe it is a mixed breed, or I just can't recall the breed at the moment.

Can't recall whether Ranchus are supposed to have wens or not - lionheads definitely do, but maybe a Ranchu is the one with a wen over the top of the head only?

Regardless, I still think they should either round out a little as they age, or weren't bred right. (And if it IS a breed mix, then yeah, definitely not bred right.)

[Xavier]

If they are the worse off specimens, which is a distinct possibility considering how badly formed the one I returned was, then I'm screwed for Ranchus in the long run. The petstore I bought it from is the best one in my city, and it isn't close-by... I'm basing this on reviews and my impressions of how they treat their fish.

Before buying these ones, I almost bought some orandas at one of the better rated stores in my area, but most of them were suffering from some fungus... when I returned a few days later, the 25 orandas had been reduced to 3... very sad. The selection of ranchus here is pitiful... if these ones die from their deformities, if in fact they are deformities, I'm going to have to find a local breeder I think.

As to feeding them, yes I am feeding them twice a day. 8am and 8pm. I feed them nutrifin max sinking pellets (which I mentioned in another post).

When should I feed them vegetation? How much? and what kind of vegetation do you recommend? (I don't have a lot of veggies in the house, lol).

[VoidParadigm]

It's possible for them to live without difficulty if they are indeed deformities, not just age/etc. Might as well wait it out and see. Who knows, give them a couple years of good growth, and they could be the most adorable goldfish you've ever seen.

Feeding them veggies and fruits could prove difficult and frustrating. Some goldfish eat everything, others are fussy pickers. Really, you can try pretty much anything, though I don't recommend citrus. You can leave harder stuff (cucumber, some greenery, etc) in for several hours, but soft stuff like bananas, many fruits, can't be left in very long due to their quick disintegration rates.

For those goldfish who refuse to eat any vegetables, I rough-blend 2 parts veggies/fruit (mine usually eat a spinach/grape mix) with a fillet of fish. Basically just enough so they can't pick the good stuff out, and discard the greenery.

[little hawaii]

They and plecos love Spinach or beet tops. I boil them just a few min.

[Xavier]

Oh, I don't intend to bring these guys back :)

I also don't think their deformities, if that is what they are, will effect their lives, unlike the missing gill lid.

I saw a youtube video of ranchus eating broccoli. The person put the stem in pincers attached to a suction cup. The ranchus went up to it and pulled off mouthfuls. That looked simple and mess free, and considering my ranchus have attempted time and time again to eat the goldfish resilient plants I put in the aquarium, I have no doubt that they won't be too picky. LOL!

If I do try this, should I boil the broccoli? Also, do I give them greens to graze daily?

[VoidParadigm]

I personally just throw some in whenever I happen to have some/am preparing some for my own consumption. I'd say every couple days is good, especially if you have a more meaty pellet or flake.

I'd boil broccoli, since it is kinda hard raw.

[Xavier]

I bought a "vegi clip" today, although it broke instantly... I mended it with some elastic bands.

The boiled broccoli was still a bit too raw I think. 2 minutes isn't enough. One goldfish grazed on it for the full 15 minutes it was in the aquarium, while the other two snatched up any pieces that were dislodged by the first's grazing. I will need to experiment to find the right texture for them.