Suggestions for 10g overhaul pls.

[Zerileous]

Hi all, I am fairly new to the hobby and beginning to gain some experience.
As a summer project of sorts, I would like to overhaul my 10g tank which I inherited from a friend. She had guppies, and lots of them, and didn't like them. My vision for the tank is a heavily planted community. (school of guppies, solitary centerpiece, bottom feeders).

The tank has about 30 guppies at the moment, and is filtered by a box filter and an internal whisper (only rated 1-3 gallons).

The first step is going to be transporting the tank for three hours from my college town to my hometown. (I will be running an inverter and air pumps during the trip). Because wal-mart is the only lfs at my college town, this is necessary. The next step is giving the excess guppies to my LFS. I will have about 6 males.
After this I want to pull the gravel and replace it with eco-complete or fluorite (can't decide which). I also want to upgrade the filtration to somewhere around 100gph via a HOB. I can't decide between the various HOB filters at drs foster and smith, because I don't really understand the effects of their differences. ]Bio-wheels ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.) seem popular, but maybe not necessarily the best option. What would the advantages of a ]surface skimmer ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.) be in this situation? Also options by ]hydor ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.), ]rena ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.), and ]Hagen Aqua Clear ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.) seem viable. I am having some trouble understanding all the various pros and cons, or are they all pretty similar in effectiveness?

I am not really looking at stocking just yet, but would like to add either otos or corys along with a larger centerpiece fish. I will also need to research plants, but ill probably try to keep it to the ones Hobs has listed as easier in the plants forum (lighting is 2wpg via 2x10w screw in wal-mart CFs). The livestock will likely have to deal with hard, acidic water, unless I decide to try to fix that with driftwood (though I would prefer stability and planned stocking to chemical modifications).

My most immediate questions are regarding substrate and filtration. Ill keep this thread posted with updates and pics.

Zer

[kimmers318]

Sounds like you are already on your way to making it a nice aquarium. While transport if you can keep the existing filter media inside the tank so that it doesn't dry out it will help to keep the beneficial bacteria alive that is in there.
My opinion on filters is unless you are looking at mega filters, or high dollar jobs, which do work much better but are usually out of a person's budget, they are fairly similar. I like all of my HOBS with biowheels, and I like our magnum canister filters. I have noticed that my marineland penguin biowheel 100 filter is a little touchier than other ones as the impeller likes to stop and I have to get it going again. For ease of cleaning HOBs are great, easy access, but for tighter spaces the ability to put your filter on the floor, on the side etc makes cansiters nice. Choose what type of filter you like, there are several brands like rena that are higher quality, but it in my opinion is your choice. Bio wheels are great for providing a large surface area for that beneficial bacteria. I use the larger ones on my large tank to help jumpstart new tanks by swishing them around in the water. That gives me good bacteria in the new tank and the biowheels catch back up quickly in their existing tank without me seeing any issues.
Good luck with your transport and your tank.

[Drumachine09]

30 guppies was WAYYYYYY to much! But im glad you know that :thumb:

If you want to do a planted tank, your best bet would be to ask Chrona for help, as he is the resident plant guru. If you are going to have a planted tank, you might want to rethink your stocking. There are two things that i know of that are very popular in planted tanks:

Cardinal tetras-[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Cherry shrimp-[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]


You could have upwards of 7 cardinals, 100-130 cherry shrimp, or a combination of the two. Those figures are based on good water quality, and weekly at least 30 percent waterchanges. On ten gallons, i find it easier just to do weekly 50% waterchanges, because i have a 5 gallon bucket.

[coachfraley]

From what I have read on the web, and heard from various people, the aquaclear is the best of the HOB filters. I think one of the good things about filters like the aquaclear is that it gives you the ability to select the types of media you want to use.

If it were me, I would get either the 30 or the 50. You are always better off having more filtration than you need.

[Sasquatch]

Wow, 30 guppies in a 10g. I'm surprised it's not a cesspool.

I don't know too much about Flourite or Eco-complete, so I won't comment on them. But if you decide to go with standard gravel, make sure it's neutral. We bought a bum bag that had limestone in it and it's messed up our pH big time.

As for filters, for a 10g, there won't be a huge difference in effectiveness. I run an Aquaclear Mini (a.k.a. AC20) on my 10g and it's fine. A little poly wool at the bottom and two foam blocks is all I have and it works just fine. The biowheel filters made by Marineland are also very good. We've run a minnow culture for several years with their filters and have never had water quality problems.

As far as fish goes, you're going to be fairly limited in a 10g. We've got 4 platies and a catfish and we're pretty much maxed out. I don't really know what to recommend for a "large" centerpiece fish, but if that's what you're aiming for, you're not going to have much more than that in the aquarium. Some Oto cats for algae and one or two small bottom feeders will probably max out the bioload.

[SkarloeysMom]

Wow, 30 guppies in a 10g. I'm surprised it's not a cesspool.


If your LFS will take the guppies give them all away. They are messy fish and in my opinion not a good fish for a smaller tanks. I wish I could find a home for mine. I only have 3 now but they poop 6 fish worth I swear!! They are kinda cute and active though and provide some nice color in my community.

[gm72]

Many of us here use Aquaclear HOBs, they are often regarded as being the "best." I run the AC 30s on my 10 gallon tanks with excellent outcomes. The 50 might be too much flow.

[Chrona]

- Aquaclear is the best HOB filter for a planted tank imo. Make sure to fill the water high enough so there's minimal waterfalling (you may have to fill it to within an inch of the top) Don't use anything with a biowheel as it will outgas CO2 should you decide to inject it later on. Run carbon for the first 3-4 weeks of the tanks life, then take it out and only use it to remove medications.

- Ecocomplete is your best choice for a substrate hands down. A few bucks more than Flourite but so much less of a headache (Flourite gets messy and looks terrible - it's red-brown)

- Some otos with a dwarf gourami would work nicely.

[Zerileous]

You were reading my mind with the OTOs and dwarf gourami, but the water in my college town is very acidic. I brought some home in a zip-lock and it tested to a ph of 8 or so. This is compared to 7.5 hometown. I guess i really need to test for hardness, but I don't have a kit for that right now. I would assume its pretty darnd hard, since the water quality of the town is notoriously poor and the PH test confirms at least one aspect of that. (on the plus side, it probably has lots of trace elements etc).

I am thinking that the AC30 or AC20 would be my best bet, but I was wonderring how wide each of them is. My tank currently has a top with a space to cut out an 8" hole for a filter. I was also thinking of getting a Fluval internal for polishing and transportation (since the water would drop too low for a HOB). I would keep the bio media in the HOB when not in use. I mean I wouldn't want to waste my money but I think it would be useful.

P.S. All the guppies seem to have survived the journey.

[Sasquatch]

pH is considered acidic when it gets below 7.0, so 7.5-8.0 is on the basic (or alkaline) side. A pH of 7.5 is going to be just fine for most any species of fish, except some african cichlids. As a general rule it's better of have a stable pH than one that's always changing to get it close to an "ideal" pH for a given species. For example our tank has a pH of 7.8-8.0 and our catfish (which likes things on the acidic side, 6.5-7) is doing just fine.

As far as test kits, pH, NH4 (ammonia), NO2 (nitrite) and NO3 (nitrate) are the most important. If you think it's going to be an issue, hardness can be useful too.

For filtration, Aquaclears are good filters. The number is the gallon size tank it's made to filter. Ex: an AC20 is good to filter an 20 gallon tank. It's a rating for "ideal conditions", but with a 10g, an AC20 will provide more than enough filtration. With an 8" gap though, you should be able to fit an AC30, our AC20 is 5" wide.

[Zerileous]

Thanks for the input. It seems AC is the way to go. Also, sorry for the confusion, I always confuse the PH. So yeah, im dealing with pretty basic water, from 7.5 to 8.

[hungryhound]

Just going to throw in my 2 cents.

I have to agree with Saquatch in that you should not overly worry about your pH. A stable pH is much more important than constantly trying to lower it with chemicals.

The other thing to keep in mind is if you are going to do a planted tank and decide to use CO2 injection you will lower the pH with the CO2, and it is much easier to keep it constant.

So don't worry about your water.

[Zerileous]

Yeah, IDK about going CO2, but I might end up getting a CO2 setup and put a powercompact fixture over the tank down the line. Right now its just 20w of wal-mart compact floros (screw ins) which shouldn't need C02.

I was at pet-smart and they were out of the AC30, and I decided not to just settle for the 20. Instead I got the Fluval 1 Plus. I am very impressed with this little guy. 50gph is a lot of power for such a small machine, and it seems really effective.

I am now actually considering another Fluval 1 and going all internal. It would be quiet and prevent gas off, but maybe I would still be better off with an AC30...ill let it chill for a bit and see what I think.

Today I successfully rid myself of some guppies, so now the tank is inhabited by 5 male guppies.

[Zerileous]

Just snapped a pic of the tank...
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

The plastic plant is definitely temporary, its goes with the substrate. The green box type filter is also temporary. The two live plants are crappy lillys from wal-mart...i think they died in transit and will have to be removed soon.

What do you guys think about the pirates of the carribean decor? I mean its really cheesy, but is that necessarily bad? A friend suggested that hiding them behind background plants would actually look pretty sweet, but i am skeptical.

PS anyone know of any commercial places that would sell ecocomplete? im having trouble finding it, and would rather not ship 20 lbs of it...

[Sasquatch]

Decor is always a personal choice, so whatever you like. I'm more of a fan of the "natural" look. I find it's actually difficult to find decor for an aquarium that looks natural at most LFSs. It's all sunken castles and greek urns and egyptian tombs, or Johnny Depp.:rolleyes:

As for the filtration, 50gph should be good, but it's always nice to have a backup.

Hope it works out.

[Zerileous]

definately planning on adding more than the fluval 1, just can't decide if it will be another fluval 1 or an AC30... Will probably go with the hob. Im sure the fluval is more than enough for now, with just 5 fish.

I wen't around to some LFS yesterday and wasn't able to find any oto cats. I do know of another LFS I can try, but I would rather not partronize them because I consider their practices to be inhumane. My current substrate would not be safe for corys.

Anyhow, how do invert cleanup crews work for freshwater? I was thinking a few snails and amano shrimp would be able to handle cleanup duty. Would I have much luck with this as a substitute for otos?

[Chrona]

definately planning on adding more than the fluval 1, just can't decide if it will be another fluval 1 or an AC30... Will probably go with the hob. Im sure the fluval is more than enough for now, with just 5 fish.

I wen't around to some LFS yesterday and wasn't able to find any oto cats. I do know of another LFS I can try, but I would rather not partronize them because I consider their practices to be inhumane. My current substrate would not be safe for corys.

Anyhow, how do invert cleanup crews work for freshwater? I was thinking a few snails and amano shrimp would be able to handle cleanup duty. Would I have much luck with this as a substitute for otos?

Amano shrimp and snails would do a very good job (better than otos actually) as amanos can scavenge too

[Zerileous]

made another trip to the LFS today
Picked up 4 snales, i guess mystery (2 gold/orange, 2 white/ivory)...
still have not been able to find shrimp other than ghost...I would prefer cherries because of their color, but really I would go for any sort of algae eating shrimp right now. Also, I want to avoid overstocking inverts so any guidelines there?

Current stock then: 5 adult male guppies, 4 snales, 2 fry (that i missed yesterday, they will either be guppy food or betta food).

I also picked up a bag of eco-complete, but I probably wont be using it for a few weeks. I hope that isnt a problem. When I do end up changing the substrate, I was thinking of laying some egg crate (the plastic light diffusor square deals) in the bottom of the tank to help keep the substrate from shifting in transit.

Thanks for all the help this far, I am seeing my vision of a lush green tank move a few steps closer.

[Chrona]

made another trip to the LFS today
Picked up 4 snales, i guess mystery (2 gold/orange, 2 white/ivory)...
still have not been able to find shrimp other than ghost...I would prefer cherries because of their color, but really I would go for any sort of algae eating shrimp right now. Also, I want to avoid overstocking inverts so any guidelines there?

Current stock then: 5 adult male guppies, 4 snales, 2 fry (that i missed yesterday, they will either be guppy food or betta food).

I also picked up a bag of eco-complete, but I probably wont be using it for a few weeks. I hope that isnt a problem. When I do end up changing the substrate, I was thinking of laying some egg crate (the plastic light diffusor square deals) in the bottom of the tank to help keep the substrate from shifting in transit.

Thanks for all the help this far, I am seeing my vision of a lush green tank move a few steps closer.

3-4 amanos would be good. You may be better off setting up the planted tank and getting amanos after transit though. Eggcrates will limit root development as the substrate is not that deep to begin with in a 10g tank.

[Zerileous]

that may be an option, but because of my living situation transportation is inevitable. I mean best case scenerio i could set it up at college and not move it for 2 years, but the only fish store in the town is wal-mart, which leaves mail ordering livestock. How destructive would transit be for the plants with maybe a month of root development?

[Chrona]

that may be an option, but because of my living situation transportation is inevitable. I mean best case scenerio i could set it up at college and not move it for 2 years, but the only fish store in the town is wal-mart, which leaves mail ordering livestock. How destructive would transit be for the plants with maybe a month of root development?

Not very. The roots problem is more long term.

I see your situation. Amanos are pretty hardy so they should be ok. Make sure they have something to grab onto during transit (and make sure everything is kept heated) such as a plant or they will go into shock.