Cannister filters- religion vs reality?

[Greg Menke]

My wife and I recently started a 55 gallon planted freshwater aquarium. We began with an Aquaclear filter unit, with the waterfall. Seemed to work OK, kind of noisy with the waterfall. This week we started grappling with green water, quite annoying. We were wanting something quieter so upgraded to an Eheim 2215. Nice and quiet but it doesn't seem to filter any better.

All the various reviews say the usual name-brands are all "good filters", etc.. but is there much difference? I'll grant that noise would be a significant difference- but I'm wondering more about filtering ability.

I repacked the Eheim a couple times in an attempt to pick up the green water, no nice I guess I'd need a real industrial filter to get that stuff out. I'm attempting to flocculate now, we'll see. Is there any industrial specification for the filter pads, meaning the micron size of stuff they filter out or is it more or less all subjective?

Thanks,

Greg

[Drumachine09]

Buy an in line UV sterylizer. It will clear up that green water in no time.

[hungryhound]

The problem with your comparison is that green water is not a refelction on your filter. It is a reflection on your water parameters, and lighting.

Filters have three types of filtrations

mechanical - lremoves debri
Biological - nitrate cycle
chemical (if used ) removes toxins from water

Not one of them removes algae from the water.

My guess is that your tank is receiving direct sunlight or you have plants and your fertilizer dosing is way off. Or you are over feeding your fish and causing too many nutrients in the water.

1. make sure that the tank receives no direct sunlight.
2. Don't overfeed your fish.
3. check your fert dosing

Algae is a plant and you can easily kill it with a uv filter, but the cheapest way to kill it is to do a black out. Cover your tank with a blanket and turn the lights out and let it sit for 24 to 46 hours. You will be amazed the change this makes. But keep in mind that this only treats the symptom and not the problem. So unless you fix the problem it will keep coming back.

[Rue]

Yes, you can't correlate green water with filter quality.

A note on the 'waterfall'...the higher the waterlevel, the shorter the waterfall, the less noise...

...the waterfall also aerates the water by disturbing the water surface, so a small one is better than none...

[Greg Menke]

Sorry, I didn't ask the question clearly. I know any of these filters won't get the green water out- no issue there. What I was wondering is if any of the filters actually specify the size of particles they are effective with, and to what extent the various cannister units actually perform differently. I'm not at the moment concerned with the chemical and bio aspects- those look like they'll be pretty much the same for any of the cannisters anyhow. Perhaps the only real differences between the cannisters is motor noise and ergonomics, and perhaps construction materials?

As far as the algae goes, there is no direct light. Nitrates and ph are stable- nitrates were getting up around 10ppm but I've been doing water changes to keep them there or lower. ph is 7 to 7.2, kept there by co2 from a fermenter & airstone. We wiped out a bunch of filament algae that was a consequence of overfeeding by a couple days of darkness, all that algae is gone now. The green water showed up 4 or so days after.

Thanks,

Greg

[Rue]

I had green water in one tank too...what finally worked was the use of a particulate additive...

...not sure how it works, but it 'clumps' the algae together somehow in larger bits so that the filter media can remove it...

...once the water was clear, I stopped using it...I think it's a wee bit toxic...but I had no fish deaths during the clean up process...

...but the UV sterilizer might be a better option for the long run...

[Rue]

...well, I'm looking at filters now for my soon-to-come 75g...

From all I've read these past 6 months all the canisters are a variation on a theme. Of course material quality and workmanship comes into play...but among the better quality models, I think it's mostly personal preference.

I know I don't want a Fluval...harder to prime and I've read enough negatives about them that I'd rather not have one...

...but of the others? I don't know how much difference there really is. Based on the advice I'm getting here and on other forums, I'll look more closely at the Renas, Eheims and one other (forgot the brand)...

[Greg Menke]

I quite like the Eheim 2215 priming, kind of old fashioned though. Just suck the siphon tube till the water starts, then turn off the siphon tube upper valve (spit out the mouthfull of water), then hook up the tubes and open all 4 valves. Water siphons in, air displaces out, turn it on and thats that.

When opening the unit, I found its helpful to place the whole thing in a bucket (use enough hose length to give a couple feet of slack), cut off all valves then separate each hose at the double valves. Tubes on the tank stay filled, so no loss of prime. Service the cannister, set it all back up, open the valves and the still-primed siphon tube fills it up no fuss no muss.

Getting the Aquaclear running was finnicky, have to pour enough water into the pump reservoir so it will prime the siphon tube.

Greg

[Sasquatch]

Most filters don't provide a particulate size for filtration because the size is so large it wouldn't be meaningful. For most it's in the milimeter range, which is still thousands of times larger than algae.

The only one I know about is Marineland which has a "micron filter" as an insert for their HOT magnums. I don't know exactly the rating, but I beleive that their good down to 2 microns. It won't cure, but is will help with the green water. You can see what the micron cartridge look like in the add at the top of the webpage.

http://www.marineland.com/products/consumer/con_hotmag.asp

I've used then in a laboratory setting when maintaining a minnow culture and they performed very well. With the biowheel you get the biological filtration, the micron is a very effective mechanical filter. The down side is that if you want chemical filtration (carbon or resins) you need a second filter, but with good bio filtration and water conditioners, you shouldn't need chemical filtration.

[Algenco]

I have a Rena XP3 (my first canister) and I'm very pleased, water stays crystal clear.

Vortex Diatom filters will take the "green" out,had one years ago and was very impressed with the performance.

[Fishguy2727]

Algaefix is perfectly safe in planted tanks and is great at dealing with greenwater algae.

[GoldLenny]

Something you can do with a canister that you can't do with an HOB is put in a micro-polishing pad as the final stage of filtration. This micro-polishing pad will filter out the very fine things. It won't solve your green water issues though. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4353&N=2004+113808 (Link is for example only. You can buy these at many other places online and retail as well)

There is a diatom filter that will filter out the algae or the UV filter which will kill water column algae but this can usually be solved by changing the biology/ecology of the tank.

[Greg Menke]

Well if it comes to filtering the green water, I'll go to McMaster-Carr and buy a water filter with media specified for this size particle and plumb it in. Its getting kind of crowded in the base at this point, would be nice to not add that and a pump.

The flocculant hasn't achieved much of anything this evening, we'll see if its made headway by tomorrow. Probably will visit a couple aquarium stores and see about a uv unit, I suppose I can keep it on standby on the cannister output, then turn it on if/when there are problems its suited for.

The tank has been running uneventfully for a month or so with a variety of tetras and plants, could the green water be related to the "tank cycle" I've read about? I'm not testing for nitrites and ammonia, just weekly KH, PH, nitrate, phosophate- all are pretty stable except nitrates have gone up a bit. I do bi-weekly 20% changes, a good time to vacuum and shovel out the snails that tagged along with some Petsmart fish (not going there anymore, we found proper local aquarium stores).

Greg

[Lady Hobbs]

And if your tank is sitting near a window, make sure you have the window drapped.

Instead of buy a bunch of expensive equipment, look for the reason you have the green water to start with. Try the black out method and if that doesn't work, one of the water algae eliminators.

[Fishguy2727]

The Algaefix is very effective and much cheaper and easier than any of the other methods listed so far.

Snails usually come in on plants, not with fish unless you saw them in the bag. And something like a yoyo botia will take care of the snails for you.

[GoldLenny]

I don't like adding chemicals to my tanks. Too many people throw a chemical fix at every minor problem.. and yes algae is a minor problem. It won't kill your fish like bacteria or parasites so there is no need to throw another chemical into the tank. If you don't figure out what is causing the green water (usually too much light and too much nutrients), then it will come back and you'll have to constantly be dumping more chemicals into the tank until it makes the EPA's Superfund Cleanup List.

[Rue]

...I don't like chemicals either...but my 25g is in the middle of a large, well-lit room...can't move it...

...the particulate remover worked very well...it's been a few years now and I haven't had the green algae return...

...I think I've also 'gotten rid' of the hair algae - finally! Mostly through elbow grease this time!

[Chrona]

The majority of algae can be killed by several days of 50% water change + complete blackout (not just turning off the lights, I mean covering the tank with an opaque blanket) However, it does not treat the source, but if you have isolated the source and just want to get rid of whatever algae is still in the tank (ie a BBA attack after CO2 failure) then chemicals would be ok I suppose.

[Fishguy2727]

A natural fix is the best. Almost every algae has at least one fish or other animal that can be added to eat the algae. However there is no such fish for greenwater algae that I am aware of. I add almost no chemicals to my water outside of buffers and special salts for those that need it to thrive, but Algaefix is an effective and safe chemical for this one specific problem.

[cocoa_pleco]

A natural fix is the best. Almost every algae has at least one fish or other animal that can be added to eat the algae. However there is no such fish for greenwater algae that I am aware of. I add almost no chemicals to my water outside of buffers and special salts for those that need it to thrive, but Algaefix is an effective and safe chemical for this one specific problem.


ditto. algaefix is highly safe and a great product

[Greg Menke]

I think I agree. I think I might've just killed the Amano shrimp- the "pro" at the aquarium store suggested "Algae Destroyer", assuring me that it was safe for the planted tank and everything in it. I was dubious but I'm a newb so why not. At 1/2 the suggested dose the shrimp started running about (no doubt trying to escape). Checked the label and theres the warning... and I thought the Petsmart people weren't on top of things. So I quit adding the stuff and am doing water changes as quickly as the change tank will heat them. Threw out the flocculants and this algae poison. I'm done with this snake oil BS, will go for the uv & a photo-period reduction.

With all the money wasted on the chemicals that aren't working (flocculants made no difference at all after over 24 hours at their maximum recommended dose) and maybe another set of shrimp it would've been nearly as expensive to buy the uv unit and be done with the problem.

Greg

[gm72]

I think this has already been said in this thread, but just my 2 cents anyway.

Cannister filters are the way to go for larger tanks. I personally love the Eheim Pro II series. The classics are okay, but the lack of removable media baskets is quite a drawback.