New 10 gallon Freshwater tank

[j-dub]

Hi all! I just purchased a new 10 gallon tank on Tuesday. I am new to the fish world and wanted to get some advice and suggestions as I really have no idea what I'm doing! Haven't found a good website for information, so I hope you all can help me. I set the tank up Tuesday night, rinsed it out, rinsed the gravel and decorations and put it all together. I filled it with water, plugged the heater and filter in, and put in the water conditioner (that came with the tank) and this product called Cycle that was recommended to me by the store. I'm at a little loss of what to do next! I was planning on putting some feeder fish in this weekend to get the cycle started and then hopefully getting some fish I want in there the weekend after next. Any advice? I'm really not sure what to do after I get fish in there, as far as the first month of maintenence goes until my cycle has complete and all my good bacteria in there. I was told that I should change the water about 3-4 days after I put the feeder fish in, is that right? Then what do I do?! How often do I need to change the water initiall? How often do I need to change the water once I get the tank established?

Should I use tap water with water conditioner OR distilled (reverse osmosis) water?

What other products or supplies do I need or do you recommend?

Think this is all for now ;-) Thanks for the help!

[Drumachine09]

Good choice on choosing this forum.

I would reccomend fishless cycling, where you use pure ammonia instead of fish to cycle your tank. It takes about half the time, and you can add all of your fish at once, instead of allowing time for your bacteria to catch up to your bioload befor you can add more fish.

[j-dub]

Where can I get pure ammonia? How much would I put in and how long would I have to wait until I can put fish in?

[Drumachine09]

Where can I get pure ammonia? How much would I put in and how long would I have to wait until I can put fish in?



You can get pure ammonia at a grocery store. Shake the bottle really good. If it has a bunch of bubbles that dont dissapear, dont use that bottle, it has suffacents in it. You want PURE ammonia. You will want to add up to 5 ppm, so you will need an ammonia test kit. You will only have to wait about 10 days this way.


Or, you can get a mesh bag, and either fill it with dead shrimp (the kind you eat), or the shrimp skins (if you are hungry). Make sure that you keep the bag under the water. Check ammonia, nitrItes, and nitrates at about day three. when your ammonia dissapears, nitrIte should appear, when that dissapears, Your nitrAtes should steadily rise. When your nitrates reach 25-30, do a big water change (50%-75%), and you can add fish IMMEDIATLY!

[NeonJulie]

If the grocery store is too uncertain, ACE Hardware has pure ammonia called Janitorial Strength. A lot of us have used with positive success. Be careful of Walmart Great Value brands - usually it's ok, but they have an alternate product they stock when they get low that may not be pure.

Don't use anything with "surfactants", "quality control agents", or perfumes or dyes. In fact, it should smell pretty horrible.

(Thank you for asking for info before the fact! I don't quite get why people buy new tanks, then buy all kinds of fish, put them in... and then come online for information and by then it's too late.)


If you have filter media or gravel or decorations from an established tank from a trusted source, that can speed things up. (It's all about bacteria dividing, so if you start with a higher number, you get faster results. 2 becomes 4, 8, 16, 32, 68, 128, 256, etc. You see how starting with next to nothing takes a while to build to something.) You can also try a product called Bio-Spira where they've tried to take the bacteria and prepackage it - but it is not guaranteed, can be expensive, and it has to be in perfect conditions from the manufacturer, to the store, to your tank.

On average it appears most people can fishlessly cycle in three weeks. Some people do it in two. Mine was 36 days and it's well worth it.

One of these easiest things you can do is get a $6 Seachem Ammonia alert to hang in the tank. Then you have constant readings for ammonia and can see how much you've added, and how long it's taking to clear. Otherwise, repeated testing takes money and time.

Fishy cycling usually takes 5-6 weeks if not longer, is stressful for the owner and the fish. This is a very simple, easy, handsfree approach. Drop in a few drops, come back a few days later. If it needs more, add it. No watching for gasping, red gills, testing and doing large water changes round the clock, etc.

I like to compare fishless cycling to building a new home, and making sure all the toilets, sewage and ventilation is in place before you buy it and move in. Who would move into a home where there were no toilets for 2 months?

[Rue]

I don't quite get why people buy new tanks, then buy all kinds of fish, put them in... and then come online for information and by then it's too late.)


...because no one wants to wait...we're all into instant gratification...

...not sure why...I kinda like the thrill of anticipation...and I enjoy researching...

...but many people don't like to research anything...

...glad you're taking the time to do so, j-dub...

[j-dub]

OK, so Ace Hardware it is. I have one right around the corner from me. Should I see if I can get some water from a trusted source, too (local fish store). Should I also get the Seachem Ammonia alert? Where would I get that?

So I start with the Ammonia and then test regularly (every couple days?) until ammonia drop, nitrite appears and then drops, nitrate appears..and then water change and then FISH?

When I do water changes, do you recommend tap water with water conditioner or distilled/reverse osmosis water? And on regular maintenence, how often should I be changing my water, and how much of it?

The funny thing is that usually when I decide to do something, I want to do it NOW. I am not a patient person, LOL, but decided I wanted to do this right. And it is fun researching things, although I haven't found any wonderful websites for information.

[Drumachine09]

OK, so Ace Hardware it is. I have one right around the corner from me. Should I see if I can get some water from a trusted source, too (local fish store). Should I also get the Seachem Ammonia alert? Where would I get that?

So I start with the Ammonia and then test regularly (every couple days?) until ammonia drop, nitrite appears and then drops, nitrate appears..and then water change and then FISH?

When I do water changes, do you recommend tap water with water conditioner or distilled/reverse osmosis water? And on regular maintenence, how often should I be changing my water, and how much of it?

The funny thing is that usually when I decide to do something, I want to do it NOW. I am not a patient person, LOL, but decided I wanted to do this right. And it is fun researching things, although I haven't found any wonderful websites for information.

Dont get water from the LFS, just use your tap water. Check everyday after day 5. after the cycle is done, do a 25-50% waterchange every week.

[j-dub]

do i need a water conditioner when using tap water? when i do the water change do i need to add any Cycle (i think it helps promote the growth of the good bacteria)..or what do i need to put in the tap water before i put it in my tank?

[Drumachine09]

do i need a water conditioner when using tap water? when i do the water change do i need to add any Cycle (i think it helps promote the growth of the good bacteria)..or what do i need to put in the tap water before i put it in my tank?

ALWAYS add condtitioner during waterchange.


We all pretty much agree that cycle doesnt do anything, so you dont need to use it.

[j-dub]

bummer! and you think you can trust people. oh well! recommend any conditioner?

[Drumachine09]

bummer! and you think you can trust people. oh well! recommend any conditioner?


Anyone that removes chlorine and chloramine will do just fine. I use tetra water conditioner, but others use different ones that dont have any problem.

[nanaglen2001]

I wonder how much shrimps I would need to cycle about 110 galons:confused:

[Drumachine09]

I wonder how much shrimps I would need to cycle about 110 galons:confused:


4-6 dozen?

[GoldLenny]

Here's a copy/paste from a recent post I made in another thread about fishless cycling where the person was having trouble getting the plain ammonia.

From my blog, "A to Z of Fishkeeping" (for beginners)... [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Another source of "ammonia", if you cannot find the plain ammonia at your local stores, is to look in the spice or baking section of your grocery store and get some Bicarbonate Of Ammonia or Powdered Baking Ammonia, [Only Registered Users Can See Links.] , which can be used in place of the plain ammonia. This will also raise your alkalinity and KH but when you do your large water change after the fishless cycle is complete, you will get rid of the excess KH and nitrates at the same time.

And yes you can fishless cycle using human urine... [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

I raised some eyebrows when I revealed in a web forum that I hadn't been ransacking my neighborhood in a search for a pure non-sudsing ammonia with no added dyes and perfumes, when I could always produce at least a few drops of a completely natural, though more personal, source of ammonia. The truth is, long before the nitrating cycle was community knowledge, I have always begun new planted aquaria by adding a few tablespoons of my urine. Good grief! The uproar at AquariaCentral sent me back to the books. I soon found out that urine actually has a very small NH3 content. Urine has a specific gravity of about 1.017-1.020, owing to its dissolved solids, about 60% of which are organic substances. Besides ammonia, those organics include urea, uric acid, and creatine, which are all bacterially decomposed to form carbon dioxide--— and more ammonia. The other 40% of the dissolved solids in urine are inorganic Na, Cl, (the "salt" content), K, PO4 and SO4. Frankly, it all sounds to me like stuff you'd be adding anyway. There are no bacteria in healthy urine. Nevertheless, people at the forum were more appalled than I could ever have expected. Some expressed their squeamishness in terms of "dangers." As far as I could tell, the greatest danger in this technique is of falling off the stepladder (heh heh heh). I was disappointed that no one asked how I had the control to fill just one tablespoon!

I'm still kind of new to this site but isn't there an article on Fishless Cycling here? I don't see it listed in the Articles section. Maybe it's a sticky somewhere and I haven't come across it yet. In either case, the link above from the "SkepticalAquarist" about using urine, is also an article on fishless cycling that you can use as a guide. I've done a few of them and when unable to seed the filter with filter media or gravel from a healthy cycled tank, it takes about 6 weeks. If you can seed the filter with gravel or filter media from a healthy cycled tank, it can be done in a week or two.

[A340]

Buy a bottle of Stability from Seachem, add it to the water and you can safely add fish right away. Just make sure you follow the instructions on the bottle and add a capful everyday for 1 week.

[cocoa_pleco]

i just use pure ammonia for tanks 20g and under, and platys for tanks over 20g to cycle. I might use the shrimp way for 5g or under, but i doubt it

[j-dub]

OK so set up my tank Tuesday night. Rinsed tank, decorations and gravel in tap water and set up the tank. Filled tank, got heater and filter running and added water conditioner and Cycle (a product Petco recommended but apparently they don't know anything!). Haven't done anything to the tank yet. Initially I was going to get some feeder fish this weekend, but was convinced to do fishless cycling so I have been trying to find pure ammonia with no success. Any ideas? I live in West LA. Grocery store and OSH did not have pure ammonia.

Tested the water for the heck of it today (4 days after tank set up). The results are as follows:

pH 8.0
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0.25ppm
Nitrate 0ppm

How am I doing? Does the slight reading of Nitrite mean the cycle has started for me? How do I get my pH down? Should I still consider putting ammonia or can I just wait until I see Nitrate, do a water change and add fish?

Also, the tank is slightly cloudy..is this normal??

Thanks for all the help!!!

[NeonJulie]

If you haven't added any food, fish food, shrimp, or an ammonia source, your cycle hasn't started.

The nitrites could be present in your tap water, or could have been some strange effect from the Cycle product (although I had heard that it only artificially inflates NitrAtes, but who knows), as could be the cloudiness a result of using that product. It doesn't seem likely that the cloudy water is the bacteria bloom - but it could be the remains of dead/dying/usless bacteria from the Cycle. (That's not to say it's harmful, but more or less pointless.) Some of the listed bacteria in the Cycle product are incorrectly identified in the nitrogen process, and to be honest, long periods of time of sitting on a shelf in room temperature without new sources of oxygen and food, would not entice bacteria to live long or work effectively.

The cloudiness can also be related to the new gravel - some gravel even after being rinsed has to settle and has little dusty particles that will settle after the filter has run for some time.

If you can't find good ammonia, consider trying the shrimp trick. I personally did not enjoy my fish flake attempt - I never got more than .25 ppm ammonia, and it was a cloudy, nasty, sick smelly mess. (And getting all that stuff out of the tank was even more of a mess. At least in the shrimp, you can contain it and pull it out when you're done, instead of it being scattered everywhere.) But to each their own.

[SkarloeysMom]

do i need a water conditioner when using tap water? when i do the water change do i need to add any Cycle (i think it helps promote the growth of the good bacteria)..or what do i need to put in the tap water before i put it in my tank?

Its a good idea to test your tap water right out of the tap to see what the Ph is and if there is any ammonia. Believe it or not, some tap water sources have ammonia. If you are in an area with limestone aquafers as your cities water source you could have VERY high ph as well.

I tested my tap water and was stunned to find a .5ppm ammonia level and a Ph of 10. That is why I use Amquel water conditioner. It neutralizes ammonia and if you use another type that doesn't then every water change you are putting more ammonia with the new water.

I also use a Ph neutralizer from time to time for the same reason - put Ph 10 tap water into Ph 7.0 tank and it will raise the Ph a little each time you do a change.

From what I've heard on this forum about Cycle it is a rather useless product. I've never used it though.