why acclimate?

[3dees]

some years ago I read an article about the need for acclimating fish. the author was saying that other than floating the bag for temp. acclimating does'nt do much. he reasons that fish cannot acclimate to a different PH in an hour or two, and takes days or longer to get used to new water so why do anything besides float and drop. I have always dripped my fish even though they were bought from lfs that has the same PH as my tank. just wondered what everyone thinks of this as I kind of understand his thinking.
sometimes it seems like we do things simply because thats what was always done. not saying he is right or wrong even though he said he does this way and never had trouble with his fish.

[Northernguy]

Sometimes you get lucky by not acclimating your fish properly.Its the times that you don't that cause all the trouble.If you are adding fish to a show tank and you do not acclimate properly there is a good chance the fish will get ich or worse.
Why risk that?
Fish also cost a lot of money these days.Meds are expensive and are not good for your cycle,fish or wallet.
A wee bit of caution can save a catastrophe.

[Lady Hobbs]

I pour my fish and their water into a bucket and add a cup of tank water to this bucket every 15 minutes or so for maybe an hour. That's it. I then net them out and in the tank they go. I buy my fish locally and the pH is the same. All I need to do is make sure the temp is the same for them.

If I had saltwater fish, I would do things the drip method but I do not. I will also say that never once have I lost a fish.

They go in a quarantine tank, I should add.

[Bristley]

"An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure" This quote comes to mind.

[tanks4thememories]

Sometimes you get lucky by not acclimating your fish properly.Its the times that you don't that cause all the trouble.If you are adding fish to a show tank and you do not acclimate properly there is a good chance the fish will get ich or worse.
Why risk that?
Fish also cost a lot of money these days.Meds are expensive and are not good for your cycle,fish or wallet.
A wee bit of caution can save a catastrophe.

Agreed 100%thumbs2: IMHO Two things really lower your chances of disease outbreak in your main tanks:
1) Proper acclimation
2) the use of Quarantine tanks

[Red]

I pour my fish and their water into a bucket and add a cup of tank water to this bucket every 15 minutes or so for maybe an hour. That's it. I then net them out and in the tank they go. I buy my fish locally and the pH is the same. All I need to do is make sure the temp is the same for them.

+1
Thats what I do.

[robflanker]

I pour my fish and their water into a bucket and add a cup of tank water to this bucket every 15 minutes or so for maybe an hour. That's it. I then net them out and in the tank they go. I buy my fish locally and the pH is the same. All I need to do is make sure the temp is the same for them.
...
They go in a quarantine tank, I should add.
I do similar - I do a cup swap every 30mins and do it for an hour or two, and speed up the drips for my 2nd hour. Then in the QT tank they go.

I don't see a good reason to not drip/acclimate them so I do it for all fish

[3dees]

northernguy, I understand what your saying. I have always drip acclimated my fish. my point is; does it really make a difference? wonder If someone here does this and never mentions it for fear he or she would get roasted.

[3dees]

ladyhobbs, if you are using buckets for temp. only, would'nt just floating them achieve the same results? seems to me that every time you handle the fish you stress them, so bag to bucket to tank, or bag to tank after floating.

[Lady Hobbs]

This article from LiveAquaria.....

http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=157

I think people should acclimate their fish in a way that works for them. I personally have not had a reason to change my method because I have no fish loss the way I do it. Also greatly depends on the kind of fish you keep.
But my thoughts are the faster in the tank, the sooner left alone and in the dark, the sooner they get over their stress. I just can not see a reason for all this if the pH is the same.

[tanks4thememories]

northernguy, I understand what your saying. I have always drip acclimated my fish. my point is; does it really make a difference? wonder If someone here does this and never mentions it for fear he or she would get roasted.


I used to buy thousands of feeders per month. Over the years I have tried several methods to acclimate them into the QT tanks and /or Main tanks.

- I used to float them. 6 out of 10 fish died or had later health issues under this program.

- I started Drip Acclimating (Actually I use a system similar to what Lady Hobbs listed - really same as drip when you analyze the chemistry that takes place in the water over time.) 1-2 out of 10 died or had later health issues under this program, and there are even some days when I never loose 1 fish. There is always some loss or sickness with the float method.

[Northernguy]

northernguy, I understand what your saying. I have always drip acclimated my fish. my point is; does it really make a difference? wonder If someone here does this and never mentions it for fear he or she would get roasted.
I think it makes a huge difference with certain fish.Some are just more hardy and can take a quick acclimation.
Guppies have always given me problems.When I started to drip acclimate them and keep them in a qt tank the problems stopped.
Getting the fish from a healthy source also helps.

[Lady Hobbs]

ladyhobbs, if you are using buckets for temp. only, would'nt just floating them achieve the same results? seems to me that every time you handle the fish you stress them, so bag to bucket to tank, or bag to tank after floating.

I'm weird about putting the bags in the tank. You just never know if the bag was on a dirty counter or the counter cleaned with lemon cleaners or whatever. I see the stores cleaning the beans out of their counters so just never was comfortable with that. Just me being weird, I suppose.

[BiGBlak]

I used to buy thousands of feeders per month. Over the years I have tried several methods to acclimate them into the QT tanks and /or Main tanks.

- I used to float them. 6 out of 10 fish died or had later health issues under this program.

- I started Drip Acclimating (Actually I use a system similar to what Lady Hobbs listed - really same as drip when you analyze the chemistry that takes place in the water over time.) 1-2 out of 10 died or had later health issues under this program, and there are even some days when I never loose 1 fish. There is always some loss or sickness with the float method.
Your talking about the less hardy fish right ? i have 15 mbunas and did the float technique every time since i didnt know better and havnt had a problem nor illness in my tank due to it . I think you shouldn't use an absolute word like "always" unless your talking about your personal experience. anyways i think i may take in mind the drip method LH said for my community tank ...

[cichlids209]

Well i probably get burned on this but owell lol :)

what i do float it in my tank for 10 mins then take it out and open the bag & just pour the fish&water in a bucket and add a cup of my tank water in every 15 mins for 30 mins total so 2 times . then i net them out and put in my tank i have never lost a fish this way .

also i don't see the need in quarantine tanks for me at least , because just for the sole purpose of i buy a fish because i want it in my normal big tank not to put it in a quarantine for a month or so .

like said before though getting fish from a trusted or good source is gonna eliminate a BIG chunk of worrying and or potential problems

always ask to have the people feed the fish your wanting . don't get ones that don't show any interest or wont eat use your better judgment in buying a fish

[Lady Hobbs]

Same as I do, Dane, but because twice I lost fish to not quarantining, I am more cautious now but then there is 10 times I didn't quarantine that went fine, too. But when you loose a lot of stock due to some unforeseen problem, one can get a bit skittish.

I think a whole lot of this acclimation business has much to do with fish being shipped in a bag and being in toxic water for 3-4 days compared to buying your fish right in the same town and having them home in 15 minutes. How much does the temp of the water in the bag change in 15 minutes on a short summers drive? None, I'd say.

[cichlids209]

Same as I do, Dane, but because twice I lost fish to not quarantining, I am more cautious now but then there is 10 times I didn't quarantine that went fine, too. But when you loose a lot of stock due to some unforeseen problem, one can get a bit skittish.

I think a whole lot of this acclimation business has much to do with fish being shipped in a bag and being in toxic water for 3-4 days compared to buying your fish right in the same town and having them home in 15 minutes. How much does the temp of the water in the bag change in 15 minutes on a short summers drive? None, I'd say.


yea that is true LH . I'm sure i would probably take a bit more caution too as far as acclimating. Maybe more cups of water and longer periods of time, with fish shipped .I myself have never had fish shipped to me so i have no experience in that part

i hope i don't have to or anyone go thru losing a lot of stock that is horrible and can see where someone would be more careful while acclimating after a loss like that .

[robflanker]

I lost 6 fish to not QTing properly.... you'll get burned once, and never do it again.

To me, its just not worth risking my entire tank for the sake of a fish for a week or two extra.

[rich311k]

I generally do the dump in a tub and add tank water acclimation method. I add a little water every 5 minutes for an hour or two before adding to the tank.

I QT all new fish, unless I set up a permanent tank just for the new fish.

[gadget228]

I used to use the bag method of floating in the tank and just adding water every 15 minutes but lost a lot of them within a couple days. Now I use the drip method only and haven't lost one since I changed methods. My LFS has a PH of 7.6 and mine is at 8.0

[tanks4thememories]

I used to buy thousands of feeders per month. Over the years I have tried several methods to acclimate them into the QT tanks and /or Main tanks.

- I used to float them. 6 out of 10 fish died or had later health issues under this program.

- I started Drip Acclimating (Actually I use a system similar to what Lady Hobbs listed - really same as drip when you analyze the chemistry that takes place in the water over time.) 1-2 out of 10 died or had later health issues under this program, and there are even some days when I never loose 1 fish. There is always some loss or sickness with the float method.

Sorry for the confusion I used "Always" in reference to my own personal data from my own experiences that I was describing.


Your talking about the less hardy fish right ? i have 15 mbunas and did the float technique every time since i didnt know better and havnt had a problem nor illness in my tank due to it . I think you shouldn't use an absolute word like "always" unless your talking about your personal experience. anyways i think i may take in mind the drip method LH said for my community tank ...

There are too many variables, the hardiness of the fish involved is but one of them. Hardy, Non hardy, healthy, from a good source, or not so healthy, to me the question is simply, "Is it worth the risks to the new fish and the inhabitants of my display tank?" If it is worth the risk then that is all that matters.
Personally I find it is not worth it, as it could cost me several hundred dollars in fish and time, not to mention emotional attachment to the fish. To me its easier just to practice drip acclimation and QT.

All I can speak to is my personal experience in this issue and the Many Many Thousands of : Mollies, Guppies, Minnows & Gold fish, I have acclimated into my feeding systems. Not to mention all of the ornamental fish I have acclimated into my display tanks over the years.

PS Since the Average LFS has a shared filtration system &/or gets new fish delivered on a bi weekly basis I find it very difficult to trust the health and welfare of my display tanks to the chances of my LFS being pathogen free.

[SkipW]

I acclimate my fish by adding tank water to them 4 to 5 times over an hour, then I just add them to the tank. Does putting them into a quarantine tank for a few weeks really help the new fish or are you just protecting your main tank?

[rich311k]

QT it is for protecting your exisiting stock from amy illness or parasite the new arrivals might have.

[tanks4thememories]

I acclimate my fish by adding tank water to them 4 to 5 times over an hour, then I just add them to the tank. Does putting them into a quarantine tank for a few weeks really help the new fish or are you just protecting your main tank?


Proper Acclimation : Protects the new fish and also helps any fish that may be in the same tank as the new fish (If you stress out the new fish and he gets sick he may pass that illness to other fish)

Quarantine: Protects your main tank & its inhabitants from anything your newly purchased fish may have..

[Ashley]

May get burned here, BUT I am actually learning a lot from this post, and that's what it's all about. I am totally guilty of floating the bag for 30 mins, then opening the bag and adding a bit of tank water and stress coat into the bag. Then wait 15-20 mins and then net the fish. Because of this I usually see some sort of disease (not every time, but often enough), a few days later in the new fish, which occassionally spreads. I always thought it was my filtration that caused this. (recently upped the filtration to help solve the prob.). I really like the way lady hobs does it, and I think I will do the same from now on. I never even thought that cleaners and stuff could be on the bags. Thanks! I don't have quarantine either... don't have the space really for one.

[james20]

I always do this and never have had any problems:

Float the bag in the tank for about 15 minuets.

Then, open the bag and add some of my tank water to it.

Let it sit for some more time, then net them out and release.

I have always done this, and it works very well for me.

I also have never QT a fish when I first got it.

[Cliff]

Just around a year ago, I’ve started to use a similar process to Lady Hobbs based on what I reached. I also use a similar method when I transfer the fish from the quarantine tank to the their final home. I had one loss after transferring a fish between my tanks and one of the only differences between the two tanks was that one had 20ppm of nitrate and the other had just less than 5ppm. I don’t think that by itself would be enough for a loss, but I’ve always wondered if it added to the stress of the move. I didn’t want a repeat loss so I figured I would just play it safe.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Wow, I think I'm the only one here who doesn't use the same method every time. lol It all depends on the fish I buy. When I buy corals for my SW tank I always drip them. When I bought my Discus, I dripped them. However, when I bought my Aussie Rainbows, since they were the first thing in the tank, I know the pH of my tank, and I know the pH of my LFS and they are the same. I get my temps the same and then net the fish from the bag to the tank. I've never had any issues with this. Obviously, the more delicate and more expensive the fish, the longer I take in acclimating it. The 2 main issues that need to be considered when acclimating FW fish are pH and temperature. Both of these things can lead to shock if not done properly. If the pH from the bag is the same as your tank, then that concern is eliminated. Temperature is always of concern, but providing the difference is not extreme, then that is a much smaller concern then the pH. Many Discus importers use the "pop-and-drop" method of acclimation simply because the main concern is to get them out of the bag as soon as possible. They generally have their pH close enough, and the temperature is not drastically different either.

The health of the fish and the hardiness of the species plays into the equation quite heavily. Some species, no matter how you acclimate them, simply do not ship well and do not survive the shock of all the changes that take place. It's all a matter of doing what is right for the fish.

[BiGBlak]

Sorry for the confusion I used "Always" in reference to my own personal data from my own experiences that I was describing.



There are too many variables, the hardiness of the fish involved is but one of them. Hardy, Non hardy, healthy, from a good source, or not so healthy, to me the question is simply, "Is it worth the risks to the new fish and the inhabitants of my display tank?" If it is worth the risk then that is all that matters.
Personally I find it is not worth it, as it could cost me several hundred dollars in fish and time, not to mention emotional attachment to the fish. To me its easier just to practice drip acclimation and QT.

All I can speak to is my personal experience in this issue and the Many Many Thousands of : Mollies, Guppies, Minnows & Gold fish, I have acclimated into my feeding systems. Not to mention all of the ornamental fish I have acclimated into my display tanks over the years.

PS Since the Average LFS has a shared filtration system &/or gets new fish delivered on a bi weekly basis I find it very difficult to trust the health and welfare of my display tanks to the chances of my LFS being pathogen free.
I thought you where trying to state a fact by sayin "always" thats all . Im going to start the drip acclimation method myself...
ay how do you double quote never knew how to do that lol .

[Sarkazmo]

When drip acclimating for long periods of time you need to be aware that the Oxygen level of the holding vessel can get low enough to be a hazard to the fish. You need to make sure that you have significant surface agitation so using an air pump and airstone can be quite beneficial.

Sark

[Greggz]

I know this may not be popular....but I gotta be honest. I bring them home, net them out of the bag, and toss them in. I'm more concerned about not adding the LFS water to my tank than how the fish will adapt to my tank. I've never lost a fish this way.

My feeling is this....in the wild, water tempature can vary by quite a bit from the surface to just a few feet down. Fish are pretty hardy. I just don't think a change of few degrees is going to harm a healthy fish.

I also do large water changes sometimes....like 85%. I'm sure that is a big change in my water parameters. Not only does it not harm the fish, it makes them extremely active and colorful.

If your tank is healthy and your fish are healthy, I just don't see a reason for all the worry.

That being said, do whatever you feel is best.

[Lab_Rat]

Wow, I think I'm the only one here who doesn't use the same method every time. lol It all depends on the fish I buy. When I buy corals for my SW tank I always drip them. When I bought my Discus, I dripped them. However, when I bought my Aussie Rainbows, since they were the first thing in the tank, I know the pH of my tank, and I know the pH of my LFS and they are the same. I get my temps the same and then net the fish from the bag to the tank. I've never had any issues with this. Obviously, the more delicate and more expensive the fish, the longer I take in acclimating it. The 2 main issues that need to be considered when acclimating FW fish are pH and temperature. Both of these things can lead to shock if not done properly. If the pH from the bag is the same as your tank, then that concern is eliminated. Temperature is always of concern, but providing the difference is not extreme, then that is a much smaller concern then the pH. Many Discus importers use the "pop-and-drop" method of acclimation simply because the main concern is to get them out of the bag as soon as possible. They generally have their pH close enough, and the temperature is not drastically different either.

The health of the fish and the hardiness of the species plays into the equation quite heavily. Some species, no matter how you acclimate them, simply do not ship well and do not survive the shock of all the changes that take place. It's all a matter of doing what is right for the fish.

:+1: Totally agree.

[Lady Hobbs]

I think I previously stated having fish in a bag for 3 days is different than having them in a bag for 15 minutes. Also, farm raised fish and imported fish may also need to be handled differently. Obviously salt water and corals much differently, as well.

I don't think any one method can work in all cases.

[tanks4thememories]

I thought you where trying to state a fact by sayin "always" thats all . Im going to start the drip acclimation method myself...
ay how do you double quote never knew how to do that lol .



= Opens a quote.
= Closes a quote
Then past what you want to quote in the middle


I know this may not be popular....but I gotta be honest. I bring them home, net them out of the bag, and toss them in. I'm more concerned about not adding the LFS water to my tank than how the fish will adapt to my tank. I've never lost a fish this way.

I understand and you are by all means welcome to your opinion and methods. I personally am just saying from my own experience and also what I have learned from Vets and owners of expensive fish that drip acclimation is the safest method. And its not as much the temp as it is the PH that typically makes things go badly.



My feeling is this....in the wild, water tempature can vary by quite a bit from the surface to just a few feet down. Fish are pretty hardy. I just don't think a change of few degrees is going to harm a healthy fish.

This is also true but the PH does not vary much at different depths and in the wild if a fish goes to a region it doesn't like it can just swim back to a region it enjoys. Captive fish have that luxury in our aquariums. Additionally it is pretty common for fish in the wild to have parasites, fungus and bacterial infections. That is one of natures ways to cull the herd. It is however our goal to avoid these things cause we do not have unlimited numbers of fish or space to keep them in..lol - My point there is that who is to say that the activities people mention as normal in the wild do not cause trouble for fish in the wild?



I also do large water changes sometimes....like 85%. I'm sure that is a big change in my water parameters. Not only does it not harm the fish, it makes them extremely active and colorful.

I am the biggest fan of saying "if it works for you then it is the best thing to do."



If your tank is healthy and your fish are healthy, I just don't see a reason for all the worry.

I just have 2 points in all of this:
1) If we conclude that drip acclimation is even slightly safer for our fish than just dumping them in, then why take a chance? If we don't see any emotional or dollar value in having to possibly replace our fish then by all means it really doesn't matter how we put them into our tanks.

2) It only costs @ 20 bucks for a full 10 gallon QT tank setup. For that 20 bucks we are helping to avoid several of the possible diseases for which there are no known cure for and which have the capacity to wipe out whole communities of fish. These diseases often have no initial symptoms and sometimes take as long as 6 weeks to present any symptoms at all. Just do some searches in the forums and look at the many people who have learned the hard way. Its just like anything. Hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20.
- I'm sure BP thought a detailed redundant emergency plan for a oil rig failure and oil leak scenario wasn't worth the cost and time.
- I see this all the time as I assist numerous people in the different forums I visit who contract incurable disease in their aquariums.
- I also see this all the time in my profession as many corporations and small businesses avoid emergency back up and recovery plans or "new software testing and development protocols" They ALL have one saying in common "I have never had a problem, I don't see why I should worry about something that has never happened to me or has such a low probability of occurring".

I have a very simple reply to anyone with such a philosophy:
- How much will it cost to protect yourself?
- How much will you loose if it happens and you didn't protect yourself?
Then I say "Now weigh the two out and make the decision that is best for you."

It is not my goal to tell people what to do. As always it is the owners fish and we should all do what works best for us. I Just try to keep people aware of their options and the possible results of the choices they make.

[Lindsey]

I know this may not be popular....but I gotta be honest. I bring them home, net them out of the bag, and toss them in. I'm more concerned about not adding the LFS water to my tank than how the fish will adapt to my tank. I've never lost a fish this way.


Same. I might float the bag for 15 minutes, but I never drip acclimate, mostly because I tend to buy hardy fish species and my pH isn't much different than the store's anyway. I've never lost a fish to acclimating.

[Jimm]

I typically do the bucket / drip from an airline. If the pH is very different, I do 1 drop / second. If they are close in pH, I just leave the line "open" and let it fill as fast as it can. You get to know the store where you shop frequently and can usually predict what you'll deal with.

Most importantly, I quarantine new arrivals. Ain't gonna wipe out an expensive show tank or my 16-year-old fish with Fish Fever. The quarantine tank is always made with tank water form the intended tank. They can stay there until they're eating what I want. The fish I usually buy have been sitting in the store for weeks if not months, so I can kind of "quarantine them in the store" if you know what I mean.

I would like to see the article about pH not mattering. Pretty much every physiological function in dependent on pH. You might be playing a game of "How much shock can this kind of fish take". I agree that many fish will survive drastic actions. Is this thriving - just because you didn't kill it?

In my fish store days, I saw a guy dump a Bichir out of a bag and it ate another fish before it was all the way out of the bag.

I would call that thriving.

Lastly, I did once see a good article about why not to bag. Something about gas exchange through neoprene or whatever kind of bag... I'll have to see if I can find it.

~Jimm

[AlabamaFish]

I pour my fish and their water into a bucket and add a cup of tank water to this bucket every 15 minutes or so for maybe an hour. That's it. I then net them out and in the tank they go. I buy my fish locally and the pH is the same. All I need to do is make sure the temp is the same for them.




That's exactly what I do. It has seemed to work pretty well for me.

[SkipW]

Great information from all. Being in the IT field I agree 100% with tanks views. I see it all the time where people just want to know how much it will cost me today, and they don't step back and look at the big picture.

In the short time I've been a part of this forum, I've learned a lot and I appreciate all the feedback and different opinions.

As I'm get further into the hobby, I guess I'll be setting up my old 10 Gal tank as a QT.