Betta and Gold fish w/ separator?!

[gabic]

I have actually 2 questions.
1. betta and goldfish together with a separator.
2. algae

I know, bettas and goldfish are not to be together but my kids won the golfish and I really don't have room for another tank...

Can I just put a separator in my 6-gl tank and have 1 betta on one side and 3 goldfish on the other side?! Oh, I also have a couple shrimps and was just about to get a pleco - I am starting to see algae puffs on the glass. I am changing 1/2 water once a week, I thought that should be enough. I cannot add any chemicals that would hurt my 2 plants either...
Or should I just stop adding the plant drops?! I only added it once a month.

Help, please...

[NeonJulie]

I don't know about the plants... if you go the pleco route, you need to search the pleco profiles in books and online to find exactly the kind that will stay small for the tank. Most plecos listed "common" actually grow huge.

It's usually more recommended to look at the reasons why you're getting algae - overfeeding/too many excess nutrients? Too much light? Sometimes the fish we get don't end up eating the type of algae we have, etc. It's usually better to try and figure out the cause rather than hoping adding a fish may take the problem away.

So you know, most people wouldn't consider bettas and goldfish compatible. Bettas are tropical (warm water) fish, goldfish are coldwater.

A 20g is usually suggested for one goldfish, and 10g per each additional goldfish. Half of a 6g is not considered a good arrangement for a goldfish.

The water change routine of 50% once a week is ok if your parameters are holding steady. Are you changing the water by way of a gravel vaccuum?

[Drumachine09]

No on the goldfish. WAYYYYY to little space. For 3 goldfish, you would need 40 gallons, not three gallons.

[Lady Hobbs]

Get a nice big goldfish bowl. They are cheap and you can make a terrarium out of it when the goldfish dies.

[cocoa_pleco]

you need a way bigger tank. the reason goldfish are so messy is they eat alot and have little intestines nor much of any other digestive tract. As soon as they eat, it comes out the other end really fast

[bettaboy691]

the too should NOT be mixed. bettas are tropical fish and goldfish are coldwater. if your betta is in coldwater, i recomend getting a heater for him. 3gallons is wey too small for 1 goldfish. even the full 6 gallons isnt big enough. its advised atleast 20-30 for 1 goldfish and an extra 10g for each other goldfish. careful about the plecs, most will grow massive and produce a lot of waste, fo algea, try to find the soure of where it comes, either by over feeding, too much light, or too much nutrients, to rid the algea, either buy some amano shrimps, but they tend to leave some types of algea. or buy an algea scraper and remove the algea yourself by hand.

[gabic]

Thanks all for answering.
Yes, I know about the water temps but right now the goldfish are in a 1-gl cookie jar :( I can't stand the thought of them being cramped like that, even if they just 'appeared' in my house overnight...
Betta is just showing off big time through the glass.

NeonJulie: Cleaning, yes, I use a gravel vac, the shrimps are messy too!

LadyHobbs: bowl, you mean no filtration?! I thought sharing the 6-gl with betta would be cleaner, wouldn't it?!

And for all: how come I see all my friends having (small) goldfish in a small tank?! Now what I would do. I just got a 6-gl for one betta :)

Oops... I agree with the plecos, I ment cory. Sorry!

[NeonJulie]

Those are mainly uneducated people who don't understand water chemistry, natural behaviour, and waste production/cycling/aeration, etc.

It's really to me like being stuck in the 1950's, and we're in the year 2007. Catch up people. *lol* Stop giving away FISH like they're a key chain?! (When I was little I got a plant as a prize at a shower. Even a simple PLANT thing didn't make it long - but hey, it wasn't a fish...) /end rant

Ok, well one problem is people assume if their goldfish lives for 6 months or a year or 5 that they have succeeded with good fishkeeping. (They do this for Bettas too. It "died of old age" at one year?!) They don't understand that these goldfish should live for 20, 30, or 40 plus YEARS.

They still believe old myths like a fish will only grow to the size of it's container. While some stunting may occur, it's most likely they only grow that large because they die so soon in their lifespan, due to their toxic environment.

I met one person who kept his small goldfish in a 1.5 gallon vase with some stones and wood, (no aeration though), but he claims he has a koi pond that he moves them to when they get big. *shrug* I guess that keeps them from an early death since his last one grew to it's 6". (I still hate the idea anyhow.) But most people don't have access to the kinds of space these fish get when they grow into adult.

I'd like to see what most people would do if they were given a full grown goldfish, at 6-8" long, as a prize. They would probably put it in a suitcase though. :/

[gabic]

OK so here's the update.
As I was shopping for separators, looking into bowls or other options, 2 goldfish didn't make it. They looked ok, eat ok, just the night before were a little slow :(
I tried to be careful with the water quality but the limitations were obvious.

Well, last night I got the one goldfish in betta's 6gl tank, granted he's inside his container all perforated (coudn't find separators for bowerd front tanks).
It looks funky but there are 2 fish sharing a filtered 6-gl volume of water - should be good, right?!

The only thing is that the whole container, perforated lid and all, are submerged.

Now I'm wondering if goldfish needs free surface?!
In another post I asked that last night. I'm trying to find some rocks to raise the whole container, it would make feeding easier too. But nothing already in the house, we're trying to move soon...

Anyway, sorry for the long post, thanks all for your advice!

[NeonJulie]

No I'm afraid not. Read the above posts. Nothing's changed since you asked us the last time?

The 6 gallon is perfect for a betta. Goldfish are dirty fish in that they produce a lot of waste. This is a very temporary arrangement at best. You'll need to do a lot of water changes I'd imagine, to keep the water clean enough for both fish.

Filtration is not really the miracle people think it is. Unless the carbon is brand new,filters don't really remove anything from the water, it just circulates it and allows the bacteria to filter ammonia into nitrites into nitrates. The only way to get things like organic wastes out of the water is to do those water changes.

I would invest in a $6 Ammonia Alert to hang in the tank for a constant reading, which will tell you when to do a water change. (Now if they'd just make one for NItrAtes! I know, not really possible. But you'll have to test NitrAtes as well even if you don't see ammonia in the tank anymore.)

I hope you have plans for a 20-30g tank for your lone survivor.

[gabic]

Sure I'll get a bigger tank, after we move, this year hopefuully...

[bscman]

Those are mainly uneducated people who don't understand water chemistry, natural behaviour, and waste production/cycling/aeration, etc.

It's really to me like being stuck in the 1950's, and we're in the year 2007. Catch up people. *lol* Stop giving away FISH like they're a key chain?!

I'd like to see what most people would do if they were given a full grown goldfish, at 6-8" long, as a prize. They would probably put it in a suitcase though. :/

Just a footnote here...most of the time those "free" goldfish are common feeders/comets... 6-8" is still not a full grown feeder/comet goldfish.
Wait until you see one that is over a foot long. These things get HUGE when properly taken care of.
I have several that are 6-7" in length, and they are about 1 1/2 years old. I wouldn't be suprised at all if many of them are 10" by the end of the summer...and they aren't just LONG fish, they have VERY deep bodies as well.

Goldfish are carp...do a search on a common carp, and see how big those things get. These "pretty little goldfish" deserve a whole heck of a lot more than even a 30 gallon tank can offer...and I 100% agree that they should NOT be given away for free as pets. Very few people have the means to grow out a common goldfish...
A common, every day enthusiast see's a 10 or 20 gallon tank as just right...and a 55gallon as huge. Problem is, a full grown common goldfish needs twice what a 55gallon can offer.

Do the best with what you have now...if that's a 6g tank, then so be it. But keep that water sparkly...and get a bigger tank ASAP...
Heck, a 10g setup complete with hood and filter is only $30 at walmart...still not big enough, but better than a 6g community tank. Both your betta and your goldy will be happier.
A 10g would suffice until he reaches about the 3-3.5" mark...Also, definitely do not over feed the fish...the cooler you keep the water the less active he'll be, the less he'll eat, and the slower he'll grow...Also a good thing since you don't have a large enough tank.

AS FOR THE SEPARATOR

Go to your local hardware store and buy a piece of acrylic/lexan the size you need for a separator. Drill a bunch of small holes in it and shape it to fit in your tank.
If you want to make it permanant, silicone it in place...otherwise just bury the bottom in the gravel, and tape/tie off the top so it doesn't tip over.

Voila, custom (and cheap) separator...

However, I'd really recommend a different setup. 3g of water isn't good for anything larger than goldfish fry, imo...

Here's a large, adult fancy goldfish...15" in length
http://hometown.aol.com/_ht_a/kmam1/MyPond/Bruce.jpg

I'd guess the large one in this pic is easily at least 8"
http://www.uvm.edu/~jdion/pets/fish/150g-goldfishpond/big-little.med.jpg

[Mark Lathrop]

Prepare to get a big tank. My first fish was an adopted goldfish out of a daycare (came in a bowl). We bought a 2.5 gallon for it and it outgrew it extremely fast. Within 2 months I had it in a 10g and it was quickly dwarfing that tank as well until it died one cold winter day (didn't have a heater for it).

[SkarloeysMom]

Are you willing to risk the healthy of your betta for a fish that just showed up? If you put a pooper goldfish in a tank with your betta you will really have to watch your water quality or your betta may end up with fin rot or worse. And who gets the temp. they like? If its cool enough for goldie then betta is gonna be stressed and may be sick - then you need meds ($). Your in a win/lose situation with those two fish. Find a big cheap tank on Craig's list and get to cycling or give the goldie back to your LFS.