New guy with problems and questions

[HadManySons]

Boy I wish I had found this place BEFORE I got my tank but it's a little late for that now, time for some damage control.

10gallon Top-Fin Starter kit tank
5 Red finned Tetras
Albino Dwarf Catfish
African Dwarf Frog
otocinclus
couple snails

Problem 1:

I just got my second otocinclus yesterday (first one died). The first one was active, he ate and did all the stuff that you would expect a bottom feeder to do. This one just sits there. He doesn't really move except to occasionally flex his body left or right. I have found him on his side or upside down but if something spooks him he shoots off. Is he sick or dying? Am I doing something wrong?

Picture of him doing nothing:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Problem 2:

I have been testing my water and the nitrates/nitrites/ammonia are off the scale. I use the API "Ammonia,NH3,NH4+" test kit and their PH test kit. THe PH sits around 6.0, which is good right? The ammonia/nitrate levels are always high and don't go down unless I do a water change. Isn't that the point of the biological filter is to eat that stuff up? What am I doing wrong? I use a dechlorinator for my water and a bacteria booster.

This stuff:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Now some questions.

Q1: I have some algae growth (as can be seen on the rocks in the pic with the oto). He will eventually eat some of that stuff down, right?

Q2: How many snails are ok? I have about 3 big ones now and have crushed a few to keep the levels down.

Sorry to put it all out there like that but I just found this place today.

[Brhino]

Regarding your pH of 6, whether it's "good" or not: There is no good or bad for pH. Certain fishes need higher or lower pH, but most fish can adapt. Stability is usually more important than an exact number. 6 is somewhat acidic but there's no reason why it can't be made to work.

Regarding ammonia, nitrites, and your biological filter: How long has the tank been set up, how long have there been fish in it? The biological filter takes time to develop - several weeks to a month or two - and until then you're going to have ammonia and nitrites. What are the numbers now? Anything more than 0 is potentially a problem, although the bacteria booster you're adding should help. Some fish are more sensitive than others. That's probably what killed your first otocinclus, and what's troubling your current one.

Healthy otos are phenomenal algae eaters, so you'll have no problems there, but for now your problem is your ammonia and nitrites.

Snails have very little bioload, although they can, depending on the species, reproduce very quickly. It's mainly a personal preference - some people love them, and some people hate them.

[tanks4thememories]

Welcome to AC!!

Well I see a few possible issues here, however a few questions first plz.

How long has the tank been set up?
What are the actual results of your tests (need the numbers)?
How long have those fish been in the tank?
What is your filtration?

Thanx :ssmile:

[HadManySons]

The tank has been set up since mid February.

Fish have been in the tank since two days after I set it up. I did have live plants in their for a while but realized quickly that I was not properly set up for them and replaced them with fake plants, although one live plant has survived.

The test that I use is an all in one deal and has a color chart that ranges from 0ppm to 8.0 and yesterday it was 8. I had a heart attack and did a %50 water change, added some bacteria booster and it's about 5ppm now and will most likely rise.

Oh, and the filter is the one that came with the tank. It just sucked up water, passes it through a filter and then waterfalls it back down. I have an air pump that pushes water through a dragon statue but the bubbles come out about 2" from the top of the tank and right next to the filter output.

[Brhino]

that test, the one in your picture, is for ammonia. You'd need a separate test for nitrites and nitrates. 8ppm is deadly high, and 5ppm is scary too. Your tank clearly has not cycled yet, even though it's been set up for 2 months. We need to figure out why that is, or you're going to start losing fish.

What filtration do you have? What sort of maintenance, if any, do you do on it?

[Northernguy]

Welcome to the Fabulous AC!

Your tank is not cycled properly.

Please read the ebook.There is a link in my sig below.
It will really help you understand how a tank works.

Any ammonia is toxic.Do another 50% water change now and another tomorrow.You need to get them to 0.

[HadManySons]

As far as filtration, just that described in post #4.

As far as maintainance, I wasn't doing much. Like I said, I just found this place and didn't realize I was #$%@ing up. I will, as of now, be doing regular water changes.

Do i need to sweep the bottom for uneaten food or will my catfish eat all that up?

I will read the E-Book, just not today. Studying for a big test that's at 0730 tomorrow!

[Brhino]

also, I'm trying to figure out exactly what you have in the tank. You're using some somewhat uncommon names.
Do your red finned tetras look like this?
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
Those are most commonly called Ember tetras. Or this?
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
Those are bloodfin tetras.

And your albino dwarf catfish, does it look like this?
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[HadManySons]

That's my catfish alright.

The tetras look like this:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[HadManySons]

And I just tested my tap water, there is no ammonia reading from the tap.

[Brhino]

Okay, you have an albino corydoras and... serpae tetras, I think? Can someone confirm that?

Sorry I missed you describing your filter on the first go-around. Whatever it is, it's obviously not getting the job done. Your tank should have cycled by now, but it obviously hasn't, which is why you're getting tons of ammonia. Large, frequent water changes will help, but that's treating the symptoms, not the disease. If I were you, I'd pick up an additional filter, like an aquaclear 20 (20-25$). The load of fish you have in the tank is not unreasonable once it's cycled, I'm just not sure why it hasn't yet.

[tanks4thememories]

The tank is not cycled and has far too many fish to cycle properly without a lot of work and expected deaths. I would suggest:
1) An immediate 40% WC.
2) Read the E-book,
3) Read the link in my sig for choosing first fish.
4) Read the Link(s) for "Fishless" & "With Fish" cycling.
5) Purchase a complete liquid test kit

It sounds like a lot but they are all really short. Once you read those things I would then decide on which fish (if any) I wanted to cycle my tank with, then return un chosen fish back to the store. A tank of this size should have 2 or 2 small fish at the most to get it cycled(If you cycle with fish) then slowly add remaining fish as desired.

Hope this helps ya out.

[SunSchein89]

...Do i need to sweep the bottom for uneaten food or will my catfish eat all that up?

You can lightly sweep over the top when doing water changes to get any extra food out, but I wouldn't actually vacuum the gravel itself since some bacteria will be settling there. With such high ammonia levels, you really want to watch how much food you're putting in there too; none should be making it to the bottom uneaten.

Okay, you have an albino corydoras and... serpae tetras, I think? Can someone confirm that?

Definitely serpae tetras.

-------------

As others have said, read through the suggested articles and come back with any questions you may have or any further problems you encounter. There will be plenty of people here willing to help you get off on the right foot.

[Wild Turkey]

The tank is not cycled and has far too many fish to cycle properly without a lot of work and expected deaths. I would suggest:
1) An immediate 40% WC.
2) Read the E-book,
3) Read the link in my sig for choosing first fish.
4) Read the Link(s) for "Fishless" & "With Fish" cycling.
5) Purchase a complete liquid test kit

It sounds like a lot but they are all really short. Once you read those things I would then decide on which fish (if any) I wanted to cycle my tank with, then return un chosen fish back to the store. A tank of this size should have 2 or 2 small fish at the most to get it cycled(If you cycle with fish) then slowly add remaining fish as desired.

Hope this helps ya out.


Great advice, you need to do some water changes and read up on the cycling with fish first and foremost, link in my siggy

Welcome to AC! This is how a lot of people start out, but you can to the right place for help with damage control. thumbs2:

[HadManySons]

Ok. I did do another 50% water change just now and the ammonia level went down to about 4ppm. I will pick up a complete tester later.

As far as the vacuum, a lot of food makes it to the bottom uneaten but eventually the catfish gets most of it. Should I decrease the amount i'm feeding?

So you're saying I need a larger filter than the one I have?

Should I stick an airstone under the gravel?

[chrisfraser05]

I'd defo feed less if I were you, basically feed enough flakes that they will get eaten in a min max. Also you could try a little cucumber or some algae wafers for the catfish but make sure they are getting eaten.

Your filter will need upgraded, the likes of a Fluval U2 or something would be a good choice as it allows the use of Bio media aswell as foam sponge.

You'd best either use your existing sponge in the new filter or run both filters side by side for a while though or you will end up loosing most of your BB (benificial bacteria) during the changover.

An airstone will not help with the ammonia much (or at all) however will defo make your water better for oxygenation which will help the fish while times are not so good otherwise.

[chrisfraser05]

sorry, just re-read your OP.

A fluval U1 would be better for your tank as the U2 is to high a flow for the size.

Another option would be to upgrade the actual tank.

Take everything, substrate, filter, ornaments and water from yours and get a cheap but bigger tank to put it all straight in. Add more water and jobs a good un.

Obviously you will still need to keep ontop of things and allow the bacteria to develop further but by doing this you will be creating a larger body of water to absorb the changes.

You can get a basic tank of around 20-25G for under £30 here, prob about $45?!?

[HadManySons]

A new filter is gonna have to wait, i'm broke right now. I'll keep up with the frequent water changes and we'll see what happens.


Thanks for all the help guys!

[SkipW]

I too started out with the TopFin 10 setup. And probably made alot of the same mistakes you are. First thing is to read up on cycling the tank so you understand the process and everything said here will start to make sense.

As far as that filter goes... the black insert (or frame) that goes into the white filter bag, is your "bio-filter". I didn't know this, so when I cleaned the filter I would just swap out the whole thing since I had 2 of them. This led to large ammonia spikes because apparently I was just starting the cycle all over again. (Don't change the frame! I wouldn't even rinse it off)

I bought a new filter (AquaClear 50) to put on the tank. I didn't run both filters, because it's only a 10 gallon tank, and it didn't really matter since I was killing most of the BB in the filter cleaning anyway. The new filter fully cycled in about 2.5 weeks. I must have had some BB left in the tank someplace.

Only then did I find this forum and began to put the pieces together. DOH!

With the help from the people on here and all the good information, I have now upgraded to a new 36G tank (3 days now), and so far so good.

If you're going to upgrade the filter, I would definitely recommend the AquaClear. It's quiet, has more bio material than the TopFin and it worked really well for me.

[Northernguy]

You only need to feed the fish every couple of days for a while.The extra food causes ammonia levels to rise quickly.
Aqua clear filters are awesome.lol

[HadManySons]

Well that sucks. I just bought a six pack of pre made filters and just (like 3 days ago) replaced my filter. I was thinking, "why would they sell un-assembled filters?" Now i know, damn!

Guess i'm gonna cycle again.