Disaster in the making!

[Cermet]

Hello, as a so-called experienced aquarium user I made a terrible mistake. Some months ago I setup and seasoned a 55 gal for a community tank. A few weeks latter, added some plants. All looked well. After a total of six weeks, I added fish and waited. All tests looked great, so I finished the tank with more fish. All is well in that tank (still.)

However, shortly after this, I got the bug to get back to discus (I had a mated pair but these were killed in a power outage this winter – two days sub freezing and someone stole my generator.)

So, I ordered a group of ten, and plants for delivery in a little over a month. Also, I got a larger 75 gal to put were my old 55 was located (with plumbing/drain.) I would shortly setup and season the tank. Then, for me a disaster. I became very ill and as a result, have taken a few weeks to get back to ‘normal.’

A little over a week ago, at home, late that evening I received an email from the breeder that my discus were shipped and would arrive in the morning – in panic mode, I set up the new tank, sand and strengthen the wall mounting system for the heavier tank. I also had to relocate much of the plumbing. Finally, the next morning I filled the tank and got the temp set.

The fish arrived and I followed standard transfer procedures. Yet, I knew something wasn’t right. So, later, I carefully feed the little guys (and boy were they hungry) and then cleaned the tank (10% water changes every day, 30% weekend) and checked the chemistry. When I checked the nitrate levels, they were zero and I was puzzled (the plants were just in and of course, couldn’t account for the reading.) This flag should have alerted me but I am still not 100%.

A week has gone by and I kept getting zero’s on all (NH3/nitrite/nitrate.) Of course you all see what was wrong but I was still out of it until this morning, just before work I surfed this sight and to my horror, saw the dreaded words – cycling a new tank! In my haste and still suffering some from my previous illness I had not setup the tank/bio-filter system!

Calling my girl friend from work, I had her lower the tank temp and start the air strip.

Later, getting home the discus were still happy but I saw a very faint cloudyness to the tank. Now my ammonia reading was 0.5 ppm!

Quickly, I did a 50% change, added ammonia chips in place of the glass wool in the biofilter, and added ammonia neutralizer to the water. In panic, I went and got a bio-starter (way to late) and more chips.

Then I realize that I had a dual bio-wheel on my community tank :1luvu: . Stealing one from that tank I installed it in my unless bio-filter.

My readings are now under 0.2 ppm and I hope fall to zero tonight.

I can only hope for the best now but I am not a happy camper :scry: . The discus are happy:goldfish: :fish: (but hungry – no food for now) but if all goes well, I might have a chance.

[Lady Hobbs]

Problem is that you must have ammonia to get the cycle going but then you have the problem of having fish in this toxic water. Adding that ammonia deducer only gives you a tank not yet cycled and simply a tank of water. Discus need pristine water so as you know, you really have a problem.

Are you using any of the seasoned filter media that was in your other filter? I would also recommend some bacteria starter for your tank that may help but you'll have to be very careful, test a couple times a day and keep up with water changes. Seachems Stability is said to be a good product as well as Tetra Safe Start but they don't cycle for you. Just hold down the toxins in the tank some.

[fish00053]

Easy Balance with Nitraband eliminates all traces of Nitrates. Besides detoxifying it removes nitrates. As far as allowing your tank to complete its cycle I would read the product label.

[Cermet]

Yes on both replies - I am using an established filter (one of the working bio-wheels from my community tank. Also, I added detoxifying agents. I performed an 80% water change this morning (after the 60% yesterday.) But only time will allow the bio-media to clear the tank!

Thank you very much for the advice!
:ssmile:

[Ashley]

:( Hope all goes well *finger's crossed*

[Dkarc]

What is your pH?? If it is anywhere near 7.0 or lower, no need to worry so much about the ammonia levels. Even at a pH of 7.5+, ammonia is only in a percentage of it's unionized form (ammonia), which is toxic to fish. The rest is it's relatively safe ionized form, ammonium. How much of the unionized ammonia is present in the water depends upon pH, temperature, and salinity.

Nitrite on the other hand is another issue...there is a near zero safe level for that. Fortunately, the chloride ions present in common table/aquarium salt helps this issue.

-Ryan

[Cermet]

What is your pH?? If it is anywhere near 7.0 or lower, no need to worry so much about the ammonia levels. Even at a pH of 7.5+, ammonia is only in a percentage of it's unionized form (ammonia), which is toxic to fish. The rest is it's relatively safe ionized form, ammonium. How much of the unionized ammonia is present in the water depends upon pH, temperature, and salinity.

Nitrite on the other hand is another issue...there is a near zero safe level for that. Fortunately, the chloride ions present in common table/aquarium salt helps this issue.

-Ryan
I have been busy changing the water and working on the tank/before/after work.
My water pH is 6.2 so I am pretty safe on that front. I also lowered the temp to 84 F.

[jestep]

If you can get a hold of some existing nitrosomona bacteria, you can completely prevent the cycle. Biospira used to make a freshwater version but they stopped about a year ago. There are a few companies that have live bacteria cultures. DrsFS have their own and several other in their catalog. At this point I would say it's worth the cost as losing this many fish would suck.

As others' stated if you prevent ammonia build up, the tank will not cycle. There must be a certain concentration of ammonia for it to properly cycle. A bacteria culture will instantly establish you filters and you don't need to go through any cycle.

[Cermet]

Update: Still waiting for the tank to cycle - the Discus are still doing great; happy and eating like no tomorrow. Also, still growing fast.:19:
Of course, I have to change a lot of water pretty much every day (60 gal or so.) Most days the Ammonia gets up to 0.5 ppm - once, for reasons I'm not sure, it can hit 2 ppm overnight.:scry:
Hopefully, another week and the cycling will start to kick in more. I may add a constant water flow system this week to see if this solves the problem until the tank cycles.:11:

[Cermet]

If you can get a hold of some existing nitrosomona bacteria, you can completely prevent the cycle. Biospira used to make a freshwater version but they stopped about a year ago. There are a few companies that have live bacteria cultures. DrsFS have their own and several other in their catalog. At this point I would say it's worth the cost as losing this many fish would suck.

As others' stated if you prevent ammonia build up, the tank will not cycle. There must be a certain concentration of ammonia for it to properly cycle. A bacteria culture will instantly establish you filters and you don't need to go through any cycle.

Yes, I ordered and added the DFS live stuff. Also, you are correct about the need for ammonia and boy, despite my best efforts, I am always hitting about 0.25 ppm (yes, I use ammonia lock.)

Thanks for the ideas and input!

[sailor]

Do you have any fish loving friends that have all ready established cycled healthy tanks. If so you can get some squeezings from their filter media. This will greatly speed up your cycle.

[Cermet]

Yes, I have partly done that but I think I need to do it like you said, and use a full charge instead ofjust a piece. Good information, thank you!

[Cermet]

Looks like my tank is starting to cycling (into the third week) - the ammonia levels were 1 ppm @ 4:00 AM and I was forced to leave without doing a WC until I got home (@4:00 PM) and I was amazed that the ammonia level hadn't changed despite three heavy feedings that day.

Looked at the bio wheels and filter media and they each had strong brown growths covering them, also, many parts of the filter case/spillway are covered by growth as well.

My discus are doing great and they are still eating like crazy so, (as stupid as what I did), it looks like you can cycle a tank filled with discus if you 1) change water at least 90% every day and sometimes another 50% again that day; 2) add a live culture (commercial) 3) use a filter cartridge from an established filter (the number one reason this is working) 4) have water at a ph of 6.2 and finally, 5) add salt (and some ammonia lock but I hear this can slow cycling)

I’m not out of the woods by any means since I am still getting ammonia readings but at least the filter is coming on line (previous ammonia spikes hit 2 ppm in eight hours)– which seems to indicate that a second filter might be a good idea; besides, cycling another unit as a backup could be useful …

Thank you all for the suggestions - they seem to work very well!!! You helped me save all my little guys! :hmm3grin2orange:

[Cermet]

Just measured my water (after six hours from a 90% WC) - Ammonia 0 ppm thumbs2: (a first since I started measuring; esp. after three feedings); Nitrites 0.8 ppm (thank goodness, that cycle is going:19: ) and Nitrates 1.8 ppm and that cycle:18:
(the nitrate level is at or slightly below my input water level for this
Looks like the tank IS cycling :hmm3grin2orange:

Lesson learned

[Dkarc]

Just be sure to keep a little bit of salt in the tank to help with the nitrites.

-Ryan

[Cermet]

Just be sure to keep a little bit of salt in the tank to help with the nitrites.

-Ryan
Thanks; I do.

Also, this morning, after fifteen hours of ten discus producing all the ammonia they could, my reading is still 0 ppm; nitrite has droped to 0.5 ppm and nitrate has risen to 2.5 ppm - the tank has fully cycled - thanks again forall the great suggestions!thumbs2: :hmm3grin2orange:

This will be my last entry for this thread. :11:

[Lady Hobbs]

Tank is not done until that nitrite is also 0 but you are very, very close. Congratulations for your fast action to save these fish but I have to wonder why these fish were shipped long before you were ready for them. What a panic that caused, for sure. Generally the tank is good to go and then the fish are ordered.

[Cermet]

Tank is not done until that nitrite is also 0 but you are very, very close. Congratulations for your fast action to save these fish but I have to wonder why these fish were shipped long before you were ready for them. What a panic that caused, for sure. Generally the tank is good to go and then the fish are ordered.
Yes, you are very correct - I'll keep the salt going and a lot of water changes.
Again, thanks for all the great help!:hmm3grin2orange: