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View Full Version : Nice discus and cichlids online



Lady Hobbs
05-18-2007, 01:14 PM
https://www.somethingsphishy.com/images/pixel_trans.gifhttps://www.somethingsphishy.com/index.php?osCsid=bad70407a9ddc078775389d632b1df3b

Another site to order fish online......based out of Tampa FL

But man, you think you have problems. Read what someone wrote:

I ordered sixteen Discus, which all arrived healthy last week. The fish weren't in their new home for more than three hours when the 135 gallon tank started to leak. I had to run out to the local pet store and buy a 75 gallon tank and transfer everything immediately. Even with the "double move" and all the extra stress, all sixteen fish are still alive and getting better and more colorful each day. Can't wait to get them back in their well-planted 135 gallon permanent home. Keith's Discus are bullet-proof!! I'll definitely be ordering again.

And to think I was crying about my 29 gallon leaking!

jeffs99dime
05-18-2007, 01:25 PM
can't wait to see pics! cool

cocoa_pleco
05-18-2007, 04:30 PM
OMG, that mango pleco is AWESOME!

salman
07-10-2007, 01:38 PM
I went to the website, Found some AMAZING discus, put them in my cart, then when it was time for checkout, I read that they only ship within the US :( lol

Fishguy2727
07-10-2007, 02:41 PM
I don't like buying from places like that. I find that high end discus are very sensitive, as are the wild caught ones. The best oens are found at the LFS as 'assorted discus'.

Cal Discus
07-16-2007, 06:31 AM
https://www.somethingsphishy.com/images/pixel_trans.gifhttps://www.somethingsphishy.com/index.php?osCsid=bad70407a9ddc078775389d632b1df3b

Another site to order fish online......based out of Tampa FL

But man, you think you have problems. Read what someone wrote:

I ordered sixteen Discus, which all arrived healthy last week. The fish weren't in their new home for more than three hours when the 135 gallon tank started to leak. I had to run out to the local pet store and buy a 75 gallon tank and transfer everything immediately. Even with the "double move" and all the extra stress, all sixteen fish are still alive and getting better and more colorful each day. Can't wait to get them back in their well-planted 135 gallon permanent home. Keith's Discus are bullet-proof!! I'll definitely be ordering again.

And to think I was crying about my 29 gallon leaking!

OMG!!!somethingsphishy is the worst place you could online order discus from. Check out internationaldiscus.com. Kenny will treat you right!

Fishguy2727
07-16-2007, 01:07 PM
I would buy discus from the LFS. Look for 'assorted discus', these are usually the hardiest. Don't worry about any of the high end strains, they are more sensitive and should be left to more experienced discus keepers, same goes for wild caught.

Cal Discus
07-16-2007, 08:45 PM
I would buy discus from the LFS. Look for 'assorted discus', these are usually the hardiest. Don't worry about any of the high end strains, they are more sensitive and should be left to more experienced discus keepers, same goes for wild caught.
There is no such thing as an assorted discus. Dont purchase a discus from a lfs unless they specialize because 97% of them have no idea what they are doing with discus. There are hardier strains but they all called turqs. purchase from local breeder or online. I would recommend internationaldiscus.com. Give Kenny a call and tell him Mike sent you. You dont have to buy anything, he will just give advice if that is what you are looking for. Great discus for great price. Check out simplydiscus.com.

Fishguy2727
07-16-2007, 09:39 PM
'Assorted discus' are just that, assorted. There is a variety of strains that they get it. You can find turquoise, pigeon blood, melon, leopard, white diamond, blue diamond, etc. Since they are assorted they are not bred as strictly as the 'pure-bred' or higher quality discus, so you don't lose hardiness. When they are breeding for certain colors, patterns, or body shapes you quickly start to lose hardiness. Many more than 3% of LFS know how to keep discus. (Wait, I thought they were no different than other tropical fish.) Look for a good LFS, then check their discus for good ones. I got most of mine that way. You can get good deals this way and actually see what you are paying for (and don't have to pay for them to be shipped).

Cal Discus
07-16-2007, 10:29 PM
'Assorted discus' are just that, assorted. There is a variety of strains that they get it. You can find turquoise, pigeon blood, melon, leopard, white diamond, blue diamond, etc. Since they are assorted they are not bred as strictly as the 'pure-bred' or higher quality discus, so you don't lose hardiness. When they are breeding for certain colors, patterns, or body shapes you quickly start to lose hardiness. Many more than 3% of LFS know how to keep discus. (Wait, I thought they were no different than other tropical fish.) Look for a good LFS, then check their discus for good ones. I got most of mine that way. You can get good deals this way and actually see what you are paying for (and don't have to pay for them to be shipped).

They are different when it comes to how fish are treated in lfs's. Remember I said they just dont respond well to mis-treatment as well as others. With good conditions, they will be fine but a lfs that keeps all fish on one system so that they all get sick at once? feed them 1-2 times a day to save a buck and then charge 40-60$ for a small fish? Trust me, get them from a reputable dealer and you will save yourself alot of money and failure in the long run. By the way, all of the discus you named are their own strain. You obviously dont know alot about discus breeding and genetics. please show me some pics of your discus and we will go from there. I shall post some of mine and we will be able to tell the difference between lfs discus and high quality discus. Maybe you got lucky and yours have nice round shape, are large in size, dont have big eyes compared to their body, etc. Which discus would you consider not assorted then?

Fishguy2727
07-16-2007, 11:04 PM
What I mean by assorted is that it is just a tank with lots of different discus. Assorted: consisting of different or various kinds. It refers to a group, not a single specimen.

I have posted pics of my discus many times. There are tons of pics in my Photobucket page in my signature.

And I specified that you need to find a good LFS.

Fishguy2727
07-16-2007, 11:26 PM
There is a difference between show quality, high end discus and 'inferior' ones. But that doesn't mean someone wants those high end ones.

I like goldfish, but that doesn't mean I ahve to go out and spend more to get ones that fall into someone else's definition of high quality.

For discus I go for coloration (which will be my personal preference) and hardiness. I find that the hardiest ones are not the high end ones or the wild versions. The hardiest seem to be in the middle and what you would find at the LFS as 'assorted'.

salman
07-16-2007, 11:42 PM
I kinda agree with fishguy, Cal Discus also when you order online you have no idea what you will ge getting. I know LFS's have no idea what discus' are, hell they treat them the same way they do with goldfish. But, when you are there, you can pick out which one you like, which color you want, and you can even see if the fish is sick or if it can swim, you can even ask the sales man to feed it a little to see if it can eat. You dont have to pay shipping and it doesnt take a day or 2 to get the fish to arrive. In my LFS, they have a catalog of fish that they dont have which you can order, i ordered 2 small blue diamonds and they should arrive on wednsday for me to go and pick them up, and i dont have to pay any shipping. But i agree with you Cal that when you order from a profesional website, they know what they are doing with the fish, and they keep it in good conditions. And sometimes they have better colors.

Fishguy2727
07-17-2007, 12:02 AM
Many onlines places will provide a pic of the exact individual you are buying. You can also buy them on aquabid in which case you can bid on a specific individual.

Many breeders and online sellers keep discus under very strict water quality, like 90% daily water changes. If the fish are used to that, then get to your tank where you don't have that water change schedule and have lower water quality than they are used to, they can go downhill quickly.

salman
07-17-2007, 12:47 AM
I know they have pictures of for example a blue diamond, but not all blue diamonds look alike. They will only post like 1 picture of a dlue diamond when there are different patterns and different shades of the blue. Thats why i dont like ordering online. And sometimes they delay which might cause the fish to die, also most of them say it will tke 24 hours to arrive. The fish would be soo dizzy that it could throw up.

Fishguy2727
07-17-2007, 01:14 AM
Many places will give you a pic the individual discus you are buying, not just an example. I prefer to pic out ones in the LFS. That way you also get odd patterns and get to see how they will come out.

salman
07-17-2007, 01:18 AM
Many places will give you a pic the individual discus you are buying, not just an example. I prefer to pic out ones in the LFS. That way you also get odd patterns and get to see how they will come out.

I didn't know that.

Fishguy2727
07-17-2007, 01:25 AM
I wouldn't buy any from them, but if you check aquabid.com you can see this. They will post a pic of THE fish you are bidding on. You can see a lot of amazing discus there. But stick with the LFS like you are doing.

Cal Discus
07-17-2007, 03:10 AM
Aquabid is a breeding ground for unethical sellers of discus for the most part. There are a couple of reputable people but most are selling you crap. Remember...you get what you pay for. Please post pictures of the ones you receive. I would like to see them. Great quality discus do not have to cost an arm and leg. You just have to know where to go and it isnt the lfs or somethingsphishy.com. There are so many horror stories from that place that you are just wasting your money and time with them. Why settle for culls when you can buy high quality. Do you drive a beater when you can have a porsche?

Fishguy2727
07-17-2007, 03:13 AM
I specified to look and to not buy. Just see the pretty fish, that's all.

Cal Discus
07-17-2007, 03:30 AM
What I mean by assorted is that it is just a tank with lots of different discus. Assorted: consisting of different or various kinds. It refers to a group, not a single specimen.

I have posted pics of my discus many times. There are tons of pics in my Photobucket page in my signature.

And I specified that you need to find a good LFS.

Your pics say it all, those are what I would expect from a lfs. They arent good quality but nice if you want a pet. In the discus hobby, they would be considered culls. I'll bet I have some that are much nicer quality and didnt cost me as much as yours did. You are misleading people that you know about discus when you really should leave it to those who know a little more.

These are discus so please...I think I know a little about them. When you get them from the right place and treat them right (which isnt hard) this is the outcome.

1932

1933

1934

1935

1936

Cal Discus
07-17-2007, 03:46 AM
A few more.

1937

1938

1939

Good luck with those lfs discus. I tried that when I first started so I know what I am talking about. They are most likely already sick unless the lfs specializes in discus (most dont). Check out sunrisetropicals.com. Tony owns this lfs that specializes in discus. Internationaldiscus.com specializes in discus and kenny will treat you right when it comes to price and quality. They both show pictures of the exact fish you are buying.

I also ordered online when I knew nothing and got crap which majestic still sells their crap on aquabid. I speak from experience so if you want to have nice discus, heed my warnings.

Fishguy2727
07-17-2007, 03:59 AM
I don't need high end discus. My discus are fine. I do not need discus that meet someone else's standards of good quality. Mine are healthy, colorful, and doing well, that is good quality in my opinion. I have lost none from the LFS (which I work at) and have had them for about a year. Just because I don't buy them from online places that you approve of does not mean I don't know what I'm doing.

Cal Discus
07-17-2007, 04:07 AM
Ok, but dont lead others into thinking that they are getting the best from your sources and advice. At least I am giving examples of what people should want and not what they should settle for. You have been lucky. Most will not be so fortunate, trust me. I believe in getting my money's worth and If I am going to buy something with that hard earned money, I expect to receive a qulaity product regardless of what it is.

Lady Hobbs
07-17-2007, 04:33 AM
Cal, your Discus are beautiful fish for sure. However, if a person is looking for Discus to enjoy and not intending to be a breeder and seller of them, then the top of the line is not required by all.

My angels were purchased at stores...not from breeders because I have no intention of breeding and selling. There probably isn't too many here that can lay down $200-500 for a fish. It's a hobby for us, not an investment.

Cal Discus
07-17-2007, 08:45 AM
The only investment is my enjoyment of the hobby. I dont breed and sell them. The examples of places i have given are just reputable sellers that i have no affiliation with but i know will provide a quality product and not rip anyone off. You dont have to spend much more than you would at a store. Lets break it down. A lfs is going to charge you around 40$ for a 2in discus, afterall, its a business and they are out to make a profit. A good breeder will probably charge you half that for a discus that is a little larger because most breed them or they import them. Say you buy 6 = $240 from lfs. You order from quality breeder at 25$ a piece = $150 + 60$ shipping still comes out less. You not only get quality discus from this breeder but valuable information because they know what they are doing. Of course there will be other strains that you will pay more for but you wont be seeing those in your lfs anyways. Where do you think the discus come from that are in lfs's? They are the throw aways. Lfs's pay a dollar per fish so do you think the supplier is going to give them quality? Your chances of getting sick and very low quality fish is almost guaranteed. you might luck out and find a decent one that hasnt been in the store long but that is probably because someone traded it in. If you do some research and find the right breeder (one might even be in your area), you will be able to get the quality I am talking about and spend the amount of money that you are talking about.

Fishguy2727
07-17-2007, 01:37 PM
But quality has nothgin to do with sittign back and looking at the discus you think are beautiful. What I like and think is the most beautiful may nto be what others hold as their standards of high quality. In which case, why should I pay more for what someone else thinks is better?

LFS pay much more than $1 per fish. I work at one. And I will be going to the distributor today to hand pick fish for the store. We charge $25-30 for 2-2.5" discus. And we get red melons, white diamond, blue diamond, etc. They are not the rarest of discus strains, but that is pretty good, especially for a LFS. And it is best to let the discus settle in at the LFS before you rush them off to yet another tank. They go through a lot of stress so it best to wait and see which ones are fine and which ones are going to go downhill. We have only ever lost one discus in the past two year at the LFS I work at. For a crappy LFS that is not worth shopping at, that is pretty good.

You can save money by buying online IF you are looking for that kind of discus AND you buy them all at once. Many can't afford to shell out $200+ for a group of discus in one shot. They can however buy one or two a week for the next month or two. Those people would go bankrupt paying for shipping for fish online.

And others are getting the best for what they are looking for. Most people are not looking to get the highest quality discus. They are looking for neat, hardy, colorful discus to enjoy. If they want to buy what other discus people think is high quality, that is fine and they can and goodluck to them. But those are the discus that are not as hardy. The hardiest ones are the ones that can go from breeder, to wholesaler, to LFS, to your house and on the first day home will gorge on NLS. The ones that go from a breeder who is doing massive water change schedules and breeds for certain characteristics (inherently overlooking hardiness) and get shipped straight to your door, those will nto be as hardy and are not the discus for someone who just wants a nice discus tank.

Getting the most for your money doesn't have to mean getting the highest quality out there. That is like me buying a champion show dog to have as a housepet. The 'lower quality' dogs would have been just as good, but now I have a show champ. Now I have one who was bred for certain criteria based on someone else's idea of what a dog of this breed should be, in which case you are inherently overlooking hardiness.

I am not saying it is bad to like or buy the high quality discus. I am saying that just because someone doesn't, does not make them any less of a discus enthusiast or any less qualified to enjoy the hobby or help others with their fish.

salman
07-17-2007, 05:50 PM
I agree with both of you. 50 50. If they shipped Discus to my country i would get a couple and see if they are better or not. But i went to all the websites you gave us cal. They are amazing and have a variety or fish there. But i dont like the human bred fish. They dont look natural, its like someone dyed them. I like the simple ones that the LFS has with nice patterns. But it would be nice to have a fancy discus lol.

Cal Discus
07-17-2007, 06:50 PM
But quality has nothgin to do with sittign back and looking at the discus you think are beautiful. What I like and think is the most beautiful may nto be what others hold as their standards of high quality. In which case, why should I pay more for what someone else thinks is better?

LFS pay much more than $1 per fish. I work at one. And I will be going to the distributor today to hand pick fish for the store. We charge $25-30 for 2-2.5" discus. And we get red melons, white diamond, blue diamond, etc. They are not the rarest of discus strains, but that is pretty good, especially for a LFS. And it is best to let the discus settle in at the LFS before you rush them off to yet another tank. They go through a lot of stress so it best to wait and see which ones are fine and which ones are going to go downhill. We have only ever lost one discus in the past two year at the LFS I work at. For a crappy LFS that is not worth shopping at, that is pretty good.

You can save money by buying online IF you are looking for that kind of discus AND you buy them all at once. Many can't afford to shell out $200+ for a group of discus in one shot. They can however buy one or two a week for the next month or two. Those people would go bankrupt paying for shipping for fish online.

And others are getting the best for what they are looking for. Most people are not looking to get the highest quality discus. They are looking for neat, hardy, colorful discus to enjoy. If they want to buy what other discus people think is high quality, that is fine and they can and goodluck to them. But those are the discus that are not as hardy. The hardiest ones are the ones that can go from breeder, to wholesaler, to LFS, to your house and on the first day home will gorge on NLS. The ones that go from a breeder who is doing massive water change schedules and breeds for certain characteristics (inherently overlooking hardiness) and get shipped straight to your door, those will nto be as hardy and are not the discus for someone who just wants a nice discus tank.

Getting the most for your money doesn't have to mean getting the highest quality out there. That is like me buying a champion show dog to have as a housepet. The 'lower quality' dogs would have been just as good, but now I have a show champ. Now I have one who was bred for certain criteria based on someone else's idea of what a dog of this breed should be, in which case you are inherently overlooking hardiness.

I am not saying it is bad to like or buy the high quality discus. I am saying that just because someone doesn't, does not make them any less of a discus enthusiast or any less qualified to enjoy the hobby or help others with their fish.
You may indeed be one of those rare lfs's that can handle discus. Congrats if that is the case. If you like your discus, then good for you. People need to make sure they do their research before getting discus. You talk about hardiness. All discus are hardy, it just depends on how well they have been raised. With discus, people should save their pennies until they can purchase the group and go with quality. You already know that discus should not be purchased in small numbers and everyone should use 2-4 weeks for QT. You may have been lucky, most wont be. Yes, if I could have a show dog for the same cost as a mutt, I would go with the show dog.


I am not saying it is bad to like or buy the high quality discus. I am saying that just because someone doesn't, does not make them any less of a discus enthusiast or any less qualified to enjoy the hobby or help others with their fish.

You are correct but I'm just giving a different point of view from a little more experience. Sounds like you do the best you can with what you have. Keep up the good work. It does sound like you enjoy discus and that is really what it is all about.

salman
07-17-2007, 07:37 PM
Both of you are right. It depends on the person who wants to buy the discus. If a person wants to breed them and show them off, i would buy some online. But if you are like me and just want to watch them swim, you would get them from your LFS.

Fishguy2727
07-18-2007, 01:14 AM
Most of the LFS around me are pretty good with discus. Enough of their customers know what to look for and that requires them to keep it up. Maybe the LFS you have been to just happen to be worse, maybe I am in a good area.

There is a difference in hardiness depending on how high the quality is. The wild ones are sensitive. The high end ones are sensitive. The ones in the middle that aren't high but not wild seem to be the hardiest. I think I do agree that it depends on how they were raised. The high end ones usually have been under more strict water conditions. They have not been exposed to only weekly water changes and other 'lower' conditions. Most people don't want that demanding of a fish when there is one that looks very similar that will be much more forgiving.

Cal Discus
07-18-2007, 03:42 AM
The hardiest ones are the ones that can go from breeder, to wholesaler, to LFS, to your house and on the first day home will gorge on NLS. The ones that go from a breeder who is doing massive water change schedules and breeds for certain characteristics (inherently overlooking hardiness) and get shipped straight to your door, those will nto be as hardy and are not the discus for someone who just wants a nice discus tank.

IME, The ones that have gone through your process have come in contact with numerous diseases, have been mis-treated and are most likely sick, stunted, deformed, runts, etc. You are not getting the best when you go down and hand pick yours for the lfs. Your source has the good ones in the back for selling to discus specialists who will pay for a quality product. Your pictures prove me right. Its ok if you like your discus. Breeders that are concentrating on certain characteristics definately include hardiness. Do you know who discus Hans is? Have you heard of Stendker discus? He has some of the biggest and healthiest discus you have ever seen. Maybe your store should buy from him because he wholesales now. Have you ever talked with a real discus breeder or are you just guessing here? I know a few personally and you should do some research.

Fishguy2727
07-18-2007, 01:46 PM
I bought some of mine from a breeder at his house. And the LFS and wholesaler is not going to hide discus from customers, they have them there to sell. They will have them labeled and for sale. If you wait for them to settle in at the LFS and know they are eating and even see them grow a little, those are the ones you buy, not the ones that just came in. I'm sure I am not getting the best of the best, I'm not worried about that. If people are wanting the best of the best, then they should get them directly from breeders. Most will overlook hardiness when the coloration they are wanting happens to be in one of the individuals that is nto the hardiest. There is a difference in hardiness between average discus and high end ones.

Cal Discus
07-18-2007, 08:30 PM
There is a difference in hardiness between average discus and high end ones.

Again, it is all about how they were raised. There should be no average discus on the market anyway, it just brings the overall quality level down. Why do you think some are so highly priced? Its because some people think it is ok to breed and pawn off sub-standard fish into the market on un-suspecting consumers. If this didnt happen, we would all be able to purchase any type for a decent price at much higher quality.

Fishguy2727
07-19-2007, 01:51 AM
Some are highly priced because they sell sub-standard ones?

If the numbers of high quality discus met the demand (supply and demand, basic economics), then the prices would go down and everyone would pick them. But more people want high end discus (demand) than the number of high end discus that are out there (supply), which raises the price. There is absolutely nothing wrong with 'lower' end discus except that they do not meet the standards setup by someone out there. They are hardy, beautiful, and affordable fish, period. If you get yourself trained on what someone tells you a discus is supposed to look like, then most will look pretty bad (which I think is offensive to these amazing fish).

Fishguy2727
07-22-2007, 10:19 PM
Cal Discus, could you describe what makes my discus sub-standard?

Cal Discus
07-22-2007, 11:22 PM
It doesnt matter. As long as you like them, its fine. It wont do any good to further discuss quality with you. You and I are at different levels in this hobby. I have defended lower end discus as pets in the past when I started but I have grown to appreciate what I and the hobby would consider appropriate quality. You obviously have a different view but that is what makes the world go round. The reason people search out and want to keep them is because of photos they see similar to mine in magazines and on the internet. Thats the goal and if you can get them and grow them similarly, why not do it. You can do what you want but others can choose for themselves what they want out of a hobby. Pictures tell a thousand words.

Fishguy2727
07-22-2007, 11:28 PM
I appreciate the 'high end' discus just like anyone else. I am asking what exactly makes mine sub-standared so I know. You are apparently the expert, so I might as well ask you. You seemed pretty confident that they were lower quality, but that was all. You stated THAT they were, not HOW they were. Now I am asking how they are.

Cal Discus
07-22-2007, 11:58 PM
Why? You are just going to argue the reference. If you want to know.....Discus are round not elongated/pointed (yours arent too bad). Discus eyes are supposed to be a certain proportion to the body and yours have larger eyes than they should which tells me they are stunted in growth and are older than you probably think they are plus, that means they should be larger. Pepper is considered a flaw and widely accepted in the hobby by many as such. There are many other issues such as where the fins start and if they are smooth or instant. I am not the expert in quality. I just know some things to look out for which normally come from lfs's that dont know how to care for discus. Yours really arent the worst I've seen. Your sponsor here somethingsPhishy can do much worse than that.

Mine arent even perfect by no means. I just attended the American Cichlid Association 2007 in Sacramento and there were some serious quality discus in attendance for show. They also have a hobbyist entry in which I probably could have done very well if I would have entered.

Fishguy2727
07-23-2007, 12:08 AM
I think mine will get better as they get bigger and mature (they are still sub-adults). I have seen lots of pictures of high quality discus online, and although I would not say mine beat them, I do not think they are far behind. I personally do not like the head shape on many of the big breeder sized high quality discus. I think slight variations in the finnage and head shape do force breeders to pay attention to something besides hardiness. This means that out of a group of 20 discus, the hardiest ones may not be picked to be breeders, but rather the ones with the best conformation. I think the most important thing is hardiness, secondly coloration.

Cal Discus
07-23-2007, 06:50 AM
I too would agree that some discus that would be considered the best are in fact not to my liking. Quality breeders do look at many things and they already know the background or genetics of certain/many generations. They first work out the health (hardiness) and then they concentrate on the shape, color, pattern, fins, eyes, etc. Trust me, they have taken this into consideration. I have told you before to look up stendker discus or hans. These discus are known to be the biggest, most robust, healthy and hardiest in the hobby. Yes, with time, excellent conditions and a varied diet, yours could turn out fine.

I have talked with a few large breeders over the last couple of years and that is the only source I would go to for discus because they understand it better and can explain it better.

Fishguy2727
07-23-2007, 12:51 PM
Good. But it does seem that many overlook hardiness to get the right color or pattern, or to get the head shape just right. It is not just discus either, high end goldfish, guppies, bettas, etc., all seem to overall be less hardy than their lower end counter parts. If a betta breeder has a large brood and is trying to get a solid black betta, the hardiest ones in the brood may not be the blackest ones, but the blackest ones will probably be the ones he pick to breed for the next generation. Although, black may not be a good example since black is in and of itself a high protein pigment, as found by molly and angel breeders. They found that the black offspring had a much higher mortality rate. It turns out the black pigment takes more resources (higher protein), and that the diet usually given that did well, was not sufficient for these individuals.