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View Full Version : Goldfish-Bacterial fin rot- Help!



Labyrinth
05-14-2007, 10:49 AM
Okay, first of all, I'm new here, and I admit that I joined just so I can ask this question, BUT, I am really enjoying my new aquarium hobby thing, so I'll probably become pretty active here if all works out.

Okay, so I have these two goldfish. I won them at a carnival on March 30, where they were being kept in very poor conditions (in tiny plastic cups for the three days of the fair, out in the hot sun) so I guess I was kind of wanting to "rescue" them in way? Anyway, they are both very small, the smaller one is about an inch in length and the bigger on is about an inch and a half. The smaller one also had a big dark spot covering its head and part of its back. I at first kept them in a one gallon plastic aquarium, without a filter for the first week because it was all had. Then I went to the pet store to get a bigger aquarium (2.5 gallon I believe) and a bubblestone because I was afraid they weren't getting enough air and a bottle of stresscoat (which the pet store guy recommended to me to get rid of chlorine). (I dont have much money so I've had to get supplies gradually, which is bad, I know...) I asked the guy at the pet store about the dark spot and he told me it was nothing because diseases are usually white. So I moved them into the new aquarium and since I was at university at the time, I only had chlorinated water. I would fill a separate container with the water and add a few drops of the stresscoat and leave it for 24 hours before using to change a portion of the water everytime it started to look not so clear, because I did not have a filter yet. After a while I noticed that the dark spot on the small fish was getting darker and his tailfins were starting to look ragged. I didnt know what it was so I didnt do anything. A few days later the tail fins were getting worse and the bigger fish was starting to have ragged tail fins as well. So I researched and assumed it was fin rot, though everywhere I look, says to find a different treatment, none of which I had access to at the time. So I took the fish home and bought them a filter and changed all the water and cleaned the tank completely and then returned them to the tank. Also, I have well water at home so there is no chlorine, but I'm unsure about the effects of the minerals and such in well water on the fish, so I have continued to add the stresscoat to the water. Then I had to go back to school for finals, and couldn't take them with me because of space issues with moving out and such. Since there was nothing else I could do at the time, I made sure there water was clean and then left them in the care of my mom who would sprinkle food in every now and then, she wasnt too willing to do anything else. I came home two weeks later, (May 13) and the big fish seems completely cured. It's fins seem to have completely grown back! But the smaller fish has only gotten so much worse! Its tail fin is completely gone and the dark spot is completely black and has extended across its back, and covered the fin on its back, which is almost completely gone as well. The small fish also cant swim well now, and usually stays completly vertical with its nose towards the bottom of the tank. It can swim by wiggling its whole body and can become horizontal again after gaining speed. It still seems active for the most part, though not as lively as the big fish and it still eats as much as ever (as far as I have noticed). About an hour ago I moved it into the small one gallon tank that I still have to quarantine it from the bigger fish who seems to be healing nicely.
My Questions:
I've read that I should add antibiotics to the water, what kind and how much are they?
I also read that I should add salt to the water, is that true or will it hurt my fish? (I dont have any non-iodized salt anyway, I would have to buy some tomorrow)
Is there anything I could now to help?
Is my fish gonna die?
Should I do something to treat the bigger now seemingly healthy fish as well?
What is the black spot all about?
Is well water okay for fish?
Any other information would help as well. I really really like my fish and I want them to be healthy again.

Thank you for your help, and I'm sorry this is so long!

Lady Hobbs
05-14-2007, 01:08 PM
Fin rot is a bacterial infection and will continue to eat away at this fish until it eats into the body. If this fish is as bad off as it sounds, you probably need to part ways with it. Water changes need to be done on a regular basis and I assume with you gone this hasn't happened.

Your tank is too small for two goldfish anyway. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

cocoa_pleco
05-14-2007, 01:40 PM
sorry to hear that. goldfish need 20g for the first, and 10g thereafter. The best thing for fin rot is lots of water changes. Clean water means the bacteria cant survive on the fishes fins

Lady Hobbs
05-14-2007, 01:53 PM
Totally agree!!!! 2.5 gallon is a betta tank or possibly for neon's. Way too small for even one goldfish.

cocoa_pleco
05-14-2007, 02:24 PM
Ive heard of 2.5g's having-

1 betta
or
5 neons
or
3 killis
or
5 ghost shrimp

Mr. Koi
05-16-2007, 10:43 PM
is this a result of fin rot on my bala shark?? im concerned...

or is it that the other goldfishes are biting his fins? if you didnt notice in the pics...the dorsal and fintail are what seems to be bloodshot ...is that the case?? im really concerned...thats my FAVORITE fish! :((

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p62/finefilipinoboi/100_9267.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p62/finefilipinoboi/100_9268.jpg

Juannie
05-25-2007, 02:08 AM
Well I've been fighting finrot/fungus on my black moor for nearly 6months now, he's been getting it on and off when we've had massive heat changes here. I added epsom salts to help them with the slime of coat on their bodies and also any fluid build up (just in case), I've also used Pimafix & Melafix together, these have both worked along with water changes but when they haven't worked I've actually used medication and that helped. I do know that when they're healing from fin rot my fish had black smudges on them and that is (from what I've read) burn or proof that they're healing - well in their case it seems true: http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/smudge.htm, another reason is ammonia burn.

As for the shark, if he hasn't been bitten I do get blood marks in the tails of my goldfish on the rare occasion but once I've done a water change this usually clears up quickly - water changes are the key!

cocoa_pleco
05-25-2007, 03:02 AM
goldfish are strictly for species only tanks except with loaches and white clouds, which are coldwater. Bala's need 80f, and goldies need 65F. If the tank is warm, the goldfish will die early, and if its cold the tropical fish will die early.

Its not the balas. Theyre peaceful and tend to themselves. I have 4 temporarily in a 30g hex with 2 platy's and a large angel and 5 green corys and they all mind their own business

bscman
05-25-2007, 04:49 AM
is this a result of fin rot on my bala shark?? im concerned...

or is it that the other goldfishes are biting his fins? if you didnt notice in the pics...the dorsal and fintail are what seems to be bloodshot ...is that the case?? im really concerned...thats my FAVORITE fish! :((


How big is that tank?
Judging from the pic, it looks AWEFULLY SMALL...

And with the fish that show in the picture, it should probably be over 100gallons given the nature/size of those fish when fully grown.
Not to mention goldfish and bala's should NOT be kept in the same tank...one is tropical, the other coldwater.

What temp are you keeping it at?
Tropical fish in cold waters are magnets for disease.

cocoa_pleco
05-25-2007, 05:04 AM
yeah, that tank looks pretty packed. like bscman said, a 100g would work, but i personally say since goldfish are pigs a 150G with one of those huge RENA XP4 filter would be adequate.

Drumachine09
05-25-2007, 05:09 AM
is this a result of fin rot on my bala shark?? im concerned...

or is it that the other goldfishes are biting his fins? if you didnt notice in the pics...the dorsal and fintail are what seems to be bloodshot ...is that the case?? im really concerned...thats my FAVORITE fish! :((




Looks like it could be septicemia.

cocoa_pleco
05-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Looks like it could be septicemia.

yeppers. septiciemia is a ROYAL pain to treat. Treat it soon or else the fish suffers. if attacks the blood vessels then ears away at the fishes heart, a slow painful death. when one of my aulonocara albinos got it, he never survived. he slowly deteriorated

newguy
05-28-2007, 08:18 PM
I think one of my goldfish has fin rot because some of his fins are ragged. Today I went to the pet shop and picked up Melafix. I am going to see if this medication can help. The instructions state that I should remove activated carbon from the tank, if possible. Will it make a big difference if I don't remove the carbon? I am using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Ammo-Carb in my filters and I feel reluctant to empty the filters.

Also, I am trying to identify the cause of the fin rot. Since the fins look normal except for the ragged edges and there are no white spots, the employee at the pet shop said that the fin rot is most likely bacterial. I think my water quality is good, and I am not sure how the goldfish are being stressed. I wonder if it's the temperature. Recently it has gotten very hot in my area and the temperature of my tank has averaged around 78 F. However, the same employee at the pet store said that during the summer goldfish should be fine below 86 F.

GoldLenny
05-29-2007, 11:17 PM
With any medication, you should remove the carbon, otherwise the carbon will absorb the medication rendering the medication useless. Also, the carbon will become full much quicker. Split fins and fin rot are usually a sign of water quality issues. What are your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH & GH levels.

Keeping the KH level up around 7-10dH is important for goldfish. The temperature is not critical but it does speed up the metabolism of the fish and can cause them some stress issues and stress issues can cause immune system issues which makes them more susceptible to minor bacteria that they could normally handle without a problem.

Also the higher temps can affect how ammonia levels affect your goldfish so that makes water quality that much more important when the weather heats things up.

newguy
05-29-2007, 11:59 PM
Hi GoldLenny,

Thanks for your reply. I removed the carbon from the filters and I started Melafix. I was reluctant to remove the carbon because I was concerned about decreased filtration. I decided to do a partial water change each day before I add the medication. I periodically test for ammonia and it has always been 0 ppm, but I have not tested for other parameters. Since my ammonia has not been above 0 ppm so far, I just assumed that the other parameters would be ok. Is this a bad assumption? I get my water from my tap and I just assumed that in terms of pH and hardness it should be fine. Then I add dechlorinator and put it in the tank. I think I'm going to get a kit to measure the other parameters.

Labyrinth
06-03-2007, 07:37 AM
I dunno if anyone cares, but I'm happy so I'm posting. :) I've been treating my sick fish with Melafix and I've added salt to the water and have been doing lots of water changes and it seems to be getting much better and I think its tail fin is even starting to grow back. ^_^

Lady Hobbs
06-03-2007, 01:22 PM
Ladyrinth........good news. Hope you get healed fish.

Newguy.....the charcoal is only good for about two weeks in those filter inserts. You can wash them off in tank water and continue using them for a filter pad but after two weeks, the charcoal itself is no longer effective.

Anytime you use any medication, remove the filter insert you are now using but when you wish to get rid of the med again, do a water change and add a new insert unless the one you were using is fairly new. And always use medication in the way it should be used. It never hurts to do a second application to make sure the disease is really gone. Read directions carefully.

Bala sharks grow to 8 inches. They are social fish and need others of their own species and they are ferrous swimmers. They need large tanks.

Fish are pretty hardy, really. All they require are plenty of room, clean water and decent food. When any of these needs are not met, they become stressed and weakened and then are subject to diseases.

GoldLenny
06-03-2007, 02:39 PM
Hi GoldLenny,

Thanks for your reply. I removed the carbon from the filters and I started Melafix. I was reluctant to remove the carbon because I was concerned about decreased filtration. I decided to do a partial water change each day before I add the medication. I periodically test for ammonia and it has always been 0 ppm, but I have not tested for other parameters. Since my ammonia has not been above 0 ppm so far, I just assumed that the other parameters would be ok. Is this a bad assumption? I get my water from my tap and I just assumed that in terms of pH and hardness it should be fine. Then I add dechlorinator and put it in the tank. I think I'm going to get a kit to measure the other parameters.

As someone else pointed out, the carbon itself is only good for a couple of weeks. If it is built into your filter cartridge, you can do "surgery" on the filter cartridge to remove it and keep the filter cartridge so you keep the good nitrifying bacteria alive. Here is my blog article on filter maintenance and cleaning and I have links to Profiles on two of my filter systems and how I did the surgery on a Bio-Wheel 200 filter cartridge to remove the carbon. I'm still using the same filter cartridges that came with my HOB's from several years ago. I do add additional filter media to all of my HOB's as you will see in my blog's. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/notice-this-article-is-very-important.html

You really should have a master test kit to be able to regularly test your water so you will see how things change over time and between PWC's. You should also test your tap/source water on a regular basis to know if the chemistry is changing on it also. Most do change with the seasons.

Not all tap waters are necessarily good for all fish. Some folks have soft water with little or no hardness and the pH can be high or low. Other folks have hard water with a very high pH. Other folks have what appears to be a high pH water but the pH is often temporarily raised using buffers so the water is not acidic (low pH) while it travels from the utility to your home. But once some of these buffers are exposed to light and air, they outgas and the pH and chemistry of water will change. See my current blog which talks about establishing a baseline on your tap/source water.

With ammonia at 0.0ppm, which is good, but how long has your tank been set up? Since you do not have the master test kit, not knowing what your nitrites and nitrates are could be deadly to your fish.

Juannie
06-04-2007, 02:03 AM
Looks like it could be septicemia.

I have a white goldfish that kept getting blood streaks through it's tail, I made water changes every single week and he hasn't had them for months, also used a little salt & Melafix as well - worked wonders!

Juannie
06-04-2007, 02:04 AM
I dunno if anyone cares, but I'm happy so I'm posting. :) I've been treating my sick fish with Melafix and I've added salt to the water and have been doing lots of water changes and it seems to be getting much better and I think its tail fin is even starting to grow back. ^_^

Yipee, congratulations - that is what I did and it works. Keep up the good work it's a great start!

I haven't had carbon in my filter for prob a good 6 months now, it's made no difference to the tank what so ever, I got that advice from the forum to remove it when my fish had fungus and it's the best thing i did.