DIY 135G w/ Auto WC

[Sarkazmo]

So I've had this tank (135 Gallon) for several years now. It's not been setup for more than 5 and it has been eating at me all this time that it's not up and running. I think that I've finally decided on a SA biotope with approximately 4-6 Discus and a couple schools of tiny fishes such as Rasbora or Tetras. I know that Discus require pristine water to be happy so I decided to design my own sump filtration system with a 5-10 Gallon per day auto change. The water will be replaced with RO/DI water. The tank will be planted and eventually have a PH controlled CO2 system as well but this is the basics of the system with the auto WC.

None of this is to scale and is just a general layout that leaves out details such as how the siphon/spraybars/sump is made.

Any questions or recommendations please speak up.

Sark

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[wlepse]

Sounds like a cool idea to do the auto WC but does this swapping of water in the sump do enough for water quality in the tank?

[Sarkazmo]

135G tank
+
30-45G sump
--------------
165 - 180G total volume
10G a day WC = 70G a week

So that's about 42% - 39% of total volume changed per week. That's a pretty good percentage especially since it's done over a week instead of at once which would cause water parameter swings and stress these delicate fish. For the change out pump a 60GPH pump would run for 10Min to pump out the ten gallons or one minute for a 600GPH pump for the same volume. Basically just calculating the amount removed over a specific time and then calculate the time it needs to be on to remove the specified volume. A valve could also be employed to limit the out flow to the specific amount over time. The evacuation pump will be set high in the sump so that if something goes wrong it'll only pump out a certain amount and not drain the sump. Also there'll be an over flow in the sump so if something goes wrong with the system the over flow will go down the drain and not on my floor.

Sark

[Cliff]

Wow, I'm impressed with the design. Looks like it will work to me, but then again I'm only really good working with wood.

I would love to see a step by step photo thread showing this project develop

[Sarkazmo]

I have a stand for the tank already but it'll need to be altered to make this work as it has a pretty much useless shelf that'll just be in the way. So I plan on a putting a 2x4 around the outside of the legs at the bottom of the legs then removing the useless shelf. This way the stand is still structurally sound with the shelf gone. I'll enclose the bottom of the stand with removable panels. I'm thinking of using magnetic latches as I can just order some strong magnets from unitednuclear.com or somewhere similar.

I'm planning on using a rubbermaid tub for the sump. To keep it from distorting when in use I'm going to frame the tub in 2x4 lumber and fill the gap between the tub sides and the "box" around it I'm going to use spray, expanding foam. This gives support to the tub and will greatly lower the deformation of the tub. This also insulates the sump both thermally and acoustically. Since Discus require higher temps in the 82-84F range this insulation will cut down on heating costs. Of course this foam will have to be installed after all the plumbing is done and in place.

Sark

[wlepse]

Sarkazmo...don't get me wrong I think this setup is a great idea but I don't know if 40% WC weekly is enough. When I was looking into discus and talked to a local breeder he recommended 50% WC at least every other day. This was with a glass bottom tank, if you do a planted tank it will be more difficult to get the crap out of the tank. I am no discus expert by any means but maybe you should post a link in that forum to this thread to get input from those who have them successfully. I think this setup would still work but maybe you have to increase teh amount of WC and do a good gravel vac weekly. Also don't forget you are dumping your makeup water into teh same container that you are removing the water from, unless you isolate these areas somehow some of your fresh water will also be sucked out. Overall I love the idea since I would love to keep discus but the maintenance was a no go for my work schedule. I also agree with Cliff...please post step by step photos so I may be able to follow this in the future.

[Sarkazmo]

If the current plan is not enough of a water change then that can be altered pretty easily.

I'm planning on the output of the makeup water being fairly slow to minimize the loss of makeup water with waste water.

Right now this is all in the planning stages so you're seeing the first steps now. :) There'll be LOTS of pics, believe me and I'll document all the steps as I go.

Sark

[Cliff]

If the current plan is not enough of a water change then that can be altered pretty easily.

I'm planning on the output of the makeup water being fairly slow to minimize the loss of makeup water with waste water.

Right now this is all in the planning stages so you're seeing the first steps now. :) There'll be LOTS of pics, believe me and I'll document all the steps as I go.

Sark


I'm really glad to hear that. I excited to see the results developing

[BIO-Linist]

Note I have never completed a sump setup and am learning this stuff too.

I looked over your design and have the following questions:

1. Why is the UV unit on a separate pipe off the return that goes back into the sump? Wouldn't that diminish its effectiveness?

2. Why do you plan on using a pump on a timer to remove water, instead of putting a timer (timer valve?) on the RO/DI unit to add water (while having the excess water drain out a pipe through the side of the sump (not the drain pipe, but adding another one above it at the desired water level) )?

3. You don't seem to have this step, but I was wondering, isn't it necessary to add minerals 'back' to RO/DI water?

[AABatteries]

I think 10g w/c a day will be fine. Especially with the use of RO/DI.

I would think about making a holding tank for the RO/DI water. As it will take a while for the RO/DI water to be made.

And, I think it would make more sense to put the UV filter in the in or out line.

[wlepse]

Sarkazmo....do you actually have floor drains or are you intending on pumping this away? If you are pumping I highly suggest a check valve to make sure teh water doesn't drain back and overflow on you.

By the way any progress on this?

[Sarkazmo]

Remember, this is the basic design, so you're not seeing everything that's going on.

UV on a separate line?

UV Sterilizers work best at certain flow levels. Too little water and it's inefficient, too much flow and it doesn't work effectively. Using the two valves I'll be able to tailor the flow for effectiveness and efficiency. By returning that water to the filter will also help to remove the dead organisms/bacteria by filtering them before they go into the tank.

Losing RO/DI makeup water with waste water?

Because the RO/DI filter is slow to make water and the placement of the fill line near the intake for the pump will minimize losses. I'm actually happy that the makeup water will be made slowly as it'll minimize water chemistry changes. I'm also planning on the makeup water going through a good chunk of peat to add humic acid before mixing in the sump (which will also have peat in it.)

Drains?

I don't have floor drains but what I do have is a sink and floor drains in the basement directly below where the tank will be placed. I haven't decided on exactly how I'm going to drain... I thought about using an old garden hose to the floor drain or PVC down to the sink drain. There's even a hole in the floor for a vent that was never installed that can be used for the drain. The supply line will be via a drinking water safe hose run up from the basement.

Have I made any more progress?

Nothing physical but many more plans/refinements. I've decided to do a smaller scale test with 10G aquariums. Part proof of concept and part I'm too cheap to buy new filters. :)

This is going to be a long term project. I will update y'all as soon as I've got something.

I'm also looking into making my own canister style filter and 5G bucket sumps.

Sark

[BIO-Linist]

I'm interpreting that as meaning UV will take only sterilize a small fraction of the return flow, and put it back in the sump while mostly non-sterilized water is returned to the tank.
Why bother with UV at all then?

What kind of drinking water safe hose?

If you haven't already got one already I'd recommend plumbing your supply with hard PVC pipe instead. It is safe, cheap, and easy to work with (just make sure it's rated for potable water - see [Only Registered Users Can See Links.] ). There are many adapters available that let you connect PVC pipe to just about anything.

[fish00053]

I wish I could see this in operation. sounds sophisticated but also sounds like it would be interesting.