Ammonia in tap water -Any Ideas?

[Cichlid_Man]

I am trying to help my sister set up a 55 gallon tank.
Her tap water has 8.4ppm ammonia!
At first I thought this would actually help in fishless cycling, but now the nitrites and nitrates are off the charts and the ammonia is the same.

I heard of something called chlormon that stabilizes ammonia, but I cannot find it any where for her.

What can be done? She just wants to get started and deal with water changes with bottled water, but nothing, not even Bio Spira changed any water perameters?
Any thoughts?

[Chrona]

With a 55g tank, using bottled water is not practical. If you really do have 8+ ppm ammonia in the tap water, the only way to keep fish would be to use an RO filter. Otherwise, the fish would all die during a water change. I suppose you could use Seachem Prime to treat the ammonia before adding the water, but you would need A LOT of ammonia neutralizer, and your nitrates would go through the roof in days because the ammonia neutralizer simply converts ammonia to the non toxic ammonium (bacteria can still use this)

[Cichlid_Man]

Maybe she should just get a lizzard :-)

So, if you use a DeChloraminator, the ammonia is treated but nitrates go through the roof?

Thanks for the help!

[Chrona]

Maybe she should just get a lizzard :-)

So, if you use a DeChloraminator, the ammonia is treated but nitrates go through the roof?

Thanks for the help!

The dechlorinator doesn't do anything by itself, but dechlorinators like Amquel and Seachem Prime also neutralize ammonia, but simply by converting it to ammonium, which is still available to the nitrifying bacteria. In any case, I still think doing water changes for a 55g would be a royal PITA with that much ammonia in the water, not to mention you will have to dose many times the normal dosage to get all of the ammonia, which will burn a hole in your wallet pretty quickly.

[cocoa_pleco]

wow, thats bad. Wouldnt the water harm humans with that high ammonia?

[Cichlid_Man]

Thanks for the answers.
My sister lives in NY City, and she questioned the Dept. of Health and they said that those levels were safe AND required by the Dept.

Heck if I would drink it!

[Lady Hobbs]

I agree that an RO system is about the best answer for her. I don't agree with the health departments statement that it's a safe level, however. Babies drink this in their formula and I would truly have to question those levels....especially for infants. Perhaps she should call the city water department and see what they have to say.

[Cichlid_Man]

Hobbs, I agree with you. I wouldn't touch water with high levels of ammonia.
I'll let her know.

[Lady Hobbs]

I started reading about ammonia in municipal water supplies today because your topic interested me. It appears that more and more water utilities are switching from purifying our water supplies with chlorine and now are switching to chloramine which is ammonia based. There are no regulations on how much ammonia is used.

http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/ask/chloramine

There are several reads on it but here's just one. Goes to show that just using chlorinator probably no longer works by itself and we all need to be using chloramine removers as well.

I assume this may be the reason behind your sisters problem with her water supply.

[Chrona]

I don't think ammonia test kits can pick up on chloramines though, as the ingredients for the chlorine/chloramine test kits are different. The majority of dechlorinators nowadays also take care of chloramines in any case, like Prime, Aquasafe, etc.

Frankly, I think the person from the Department of Health had no clue what they were talking about. An acceptable amount of ammonia I can understand, as the EPA doesn't regulate ammonia content, but a REQUIRED level of ammonia???

[cocoa_pleco]

yeah, there should be 0 ammonia in tapwater. Ammonia is one of the ingredients that makes windex and other products harmful to drink

[kimmers318]

I would definitely be raising a stink on that one...including getting the neighbors involved. I cannot see how drinking water with ammonia in it can be safe for humans.

[Lady Hobbs]

Their theory is that chlorine doesn't last as long as chloramine so chloramine is a better sterilizer. Sounds a bit like bunk to me.

Another bit I read was that water we use in the summer is different from what we use in the winter months due to borrowing water from other utilities and using water kept in storage tanks to get us thru the dry season. This makes sense to me because I know it's a common practice to borrow water and if all don't treat their water the same, it could be different and even treated differently. That article always says to not scrimp on the dechlorinator and always use a bit more than you think is necessary especially during the hot spells when water restrictions are in place and always use dechlorinator with chloramine remover.

I remember the big stink we used to have over adding floride to our drinking water but ammonia would be of concern to me......especially having an infant that weighed 15 pounds and drank 10 bottles a day and of course keeping fish. I suppose once the tank was cycled you could treat the water you added with ammonia remover but you'd have to get the tank cycled first.

[Lady Hobbs]

I don't think ammonia test kits can pick up on chloramines though, as the ingredients for the chlorine/chloramine test kits are different. The majority of dechlorinators nowadays also take care of chloramines in any case, like Prime, Aquasafe, etc.

Frankly, I think the person from the Department of Health had no clue what they were talking about. An acceptable amount of ammonia I can understand, as the EPA doesn't regulate ammonia content, but a REQUIRED level of ammonia???

Gez.......no wonder it's so hard for the common folks to buy pure ammonia anymore. The water companies are buying it up. I read somewhere the required amount of chlorine was 4% per million but no restrictions on ammonia. If there are no set limits, I wonder if your water would test the same each time.

By law you are entitled to a print out from the water company exactly what is in your water. You have to call them and ask for their "chemist" and request a print out.

[holbritter]

Wow! And I thought mine was bad with a .25 coming out of the tap!

I'd be very concerned about drinking or using that water for cooking. I wonder if one of those tap filters would help?

[Cichlid_Man]

Something to do with chlorine not being as stable or as effective as ammonia for todays world.

They are required to add "X" ammount of ammonia to the City's water supply.
I called myself and was shocked at the answer.

I told her to buy any product from the pet shop that detoxifies ammonia and get her fish after the tank cycles.
She can deal with hight nitrates easier I am sure.
No reason why we all can't have fish as a hobby.
If I lived closer to her I could monitor the water better than her and take the needed steps to keep the fish safe, but.....!

[Chrona]

Something to do with chlorine not being as stable or as effective as ammonia for todays world.

They are required to add "X" ammount of ammonia to the City's water supply.
I called myself and was shocked at the answer.

I told her to buy any product from the pet shop that detoxifies ammonia and get her fish after the tank cycles.
She can deal with hight nitrates easier I am sure.
No reason why we all can't have fish as a hobby.
If I lived closer to her I could monitor the water better than her and take the needed steps to keep the fish safe, but.....!

I think they are thinking of chloramine. AFAIK Ammonia alone has never been used as a disinfectant for drinking water. However, when combined with chlorine, it makes chloramine. But it sounds like they are adding too much ammonia for the amount of chlorine present. I dunno. High nitrates are usually easy to deal with since you can just do water changes, but if your source of nitrates comes from the water, then......lol

[Cichlid_Man]

Well, there is a product out there that reduces the amount of water changes. Something for the aquarium filter. I forgot the name of it but I have some people who haven't done any water changes for a year with no ill effects. Interesting?

As long as she can get started up, then the water changes can be done with bottled water.
Small changes at a time like I used to do.

It may be a pain, but if you want fish and the water supply stinks, you make sacrifices...

Also, I don't think it is actually ammonia they put in the water as I may have led you to understand, it is something that shows as ammonia on a test kit.
Probably chloramine?
Not sure...

[Chrona]

Well, there is a product out there that reduces the amount of water changes. Something for the aquarium filter. I forgot the name of it but I have some people who haven't done any water changes for a year with no ill effects. Interesting?

As long as she can get started up, then the water changes can be done with bottled water.
Small changes at a time like I used to do.

It may be a pain, but if you want fish and the water supply stinks, you make sacrifices...

Also, I don't think it is actually ammonia they put in the water as I may have led you to understand, it is something that shows as ammonia on a test kit.
Probably chloramine?
Not sure...

I've googled it with no luck. Not sure if chloramine shows up on ammonia tests, but I'll check around some more. Definitely a thing of interest though.

Remember that, for a 55g tank, even with 10% water changes weekly (which really does nothing to remove nitrates - taking say 40 ppm to 36 ppm), the 5.5 gallons of bottled water will add up. Bottled water is 5 bucks per 5g here. Which is why I said to consider an RO filter.

[Incredulous_Ed]

Yeah, an RO filter would definetly be the best choice.

[Lady Hobbs]

Once her tank gets cycled, she can just use an ammonia eliminator, I think. I used the Jungle Labs drop -in's once and the ammonia was gone immediately.

My understanding is that chloramine is replacing the chlorine....not used in conjunction. Those two together are toxic.

[cocoa_pleco]

those jungle fizzy ammonia tabs work great for ammonia

[jttt3]

I'm use to Alaskan water, which is more heavy in minerals so I thought that 2ppm was a high amount of ammonia in the tap water I tested from my apartment, but guess other people have it worse.

So the ammonia kits, they register the clorimines as ammonia then?

Ammonia has a habit of being obsorbed into everything and sticks around for a long time, so makes sense they would use it to help push the chlorine through their water system, but if you have over 8ppm in your water, you must have some really nasty water they are trying to purify lol.

Not any of our areas, but #19 probably suggests the average concentration for a lot of areas for Chloamines maybe?

http://www.cpau.com/docs/factsheets/water/quality/chloramine.html#1

Dumbed down, but decent info.

James

[SkarloeysMom]

Thanks for the answers.
My sister lives in NY City, and she questioned the Dept. of Health and they said that those levels were safe AND required by the Dept.

Heck if I would drink it!

Our tap water has ammonia in it too and when I researched it I found that the government does not even have a limit on ammonia levels in tap water supplies. I was totally shocked. We drink RO only and use Amquel in the tanks. After reading a few of these posts I guess I won't be getting any bigger tanks anytime soon. Guess that also explains why I saw so many people hauling huge containers of water from the LFS.

[modster]

hmm.. I am quite shocked about this since i live in new york city too. I have never tested the water for ammonia because i assumed it to be zero. This starts to make sense to me now because my goldfish really hates the tap water. I usually have to add 50% bottled water when do water change. (10g tank here)

PS. If you ever decide to give up on keeping fish. Can i have your tank? :41:

[Drumachine09]

PS. If you ever decide to give up on keeping fish. Can i have your tank? :41:


lol, ill fight you for it!

[jttt3]

I set asside some water for a couple days, then put in the tap water treatment and also takes out Chloramines and that reduced the Ammonia level in the water to 0 from 2ppm.

So the standard chlorine/chloramine treatmeant might just for you, give it a try, just let the water sit for a couple days.

James