Do We Do Too Much For Our Tanks?

[A340]

This is something that has been on my mind for a few weeks now. I've been browsing through my product cataloug from Zoo Zajac and amazed how much wonderful stuff we can buy for our hobby (and how much money we can say bye, bye to .... lol!)

I've also been reading this forum religiously since I've signed up, and I'm amazed at how helpful and informaitive everyone is. But to be honest, there have been alot of tips/advice that I don't neccisairly agree on, but more that I find the tip/advice is not required for a healthy tank and fish.

So, let's say for a healthy community tank with some traditional fish such as platies and tetras, what does one really need?

1)Tank
2)Filter
3)Heater/thermometer
4)Light
5)Clean, conditioned water
6)Decorations (substrate, plants, etc.)

More or less that's it.

Cycling the tank. I've been using Seachem's Stability for years and have had nothing but success with it. Basically, all you do is set up your tank, fill it up with water that has been treated with the conditioner, hook everything up and add your fish. The only thing is, that you need to add some conditioner everyday for about a week and you're set.

Now for water changes, how much is too much? A lot of us say it should be weekly, but I feel that it's better you only do this if you're water parameters are changing, as long they are stable, there is no need to, just top off the tank and clean the filter when neccessary. The amount of fish or what type of fish you have in the tank will of course effect this, but as long as your numbers don't fluctuate, you're good to go.

Fish Stocking: Right now, I've got a 10g with my 10 Zebra Danio's, 8 Platies and 2 Clown Loaches in it. Is this too much? I don't think so. These are all schooling fish who like to hang out together, so this reduces the space they need which gives them more room to play around. As far as fish waste/bioload goes, as long as you have a good filter running, this reduces the amount of toxins greatly. Of course, as I mentioned above, this can require more water changes, but not neccesairly. Once the fish get too big, then they of course will go into the bigger tank.

Anyway, just some thoughts I had that I feel could be some good disscussion material. Lets see what everyone else has to say and share.

[Drumachine09]

With corals and plants, water changes are essential to replace the trace elements and such that are benificial to your plants/corals.

[xoolooxunny]

Let's not forget, that like everything else in this world, the fish keeping hobby is a business. They try and get you to spend money on gadgets you can do without, just like you buy useless stuff that you like to have around, say for example...a fish tank! j/k. No but seriously, i like doing large water changes weekly, because I think it keeps the fish healthier, and I also think they appreciate the oxygen saturated flow of fresh conditioned water...mmmm....:41:

[Chrona]

I agree that fish could get by with far less attention, but they won't neccesarily be happy, just like a neglected dog.

In a mature tank, nitrates will be constantly rising. If you have a planted tank where it eats up all of the nitrates, water changes are even more important to provide trace elements and some unknown additive (it's commonly known amongst planted tank owners that plant growth is phenomenal after a water change, even if the original water has all of the required trace/macro. why this is we are not sure)

For instance, in that 10g, the clown loaches will grow until they can barely turn around in the tank. And you can certainly squeeze more and more fish into a tank as long as you have adequate filtration and do more and more frequent regular water changes to remove nitrates and growth-inhibiting hormones, but the issue of aggression comes up as well. In a tightly packed tank, fish exhibit uncharacteristically aggressive behavior oftentimes, which thends leads to stress, disease, more work for the owner. This is why I always recommend understocking a tank, because it makes it much easier on YOU.

[A340]

With corals and plants, water changes are essential to replace the trace elements and such that are benificial to your plants/corals.
Saltwater/marine tanks aside, they are a bit more complex of course. As far as plants go, I'm just starting with them again, so I'll leave that to you experts....:ezpi_wink1:

But I'm glad you brought up the subject of trace elements. That is another thing I've never used, even for my Malawi's and that is trace elements/salts/buffers for Lake Malawi. The reason why I haven't used them is because most of the fish we buy are in their who knows how many generation of being farm bred. Then it's off to the LFS. So it's very unlikely that these fish have ever been in water even remotley close to their native habitats. So what good would these products be for them?

[Chrona]

Saltwater/marine tanks aside, they are a bit more complex of course. As far as plants go, I'm just starting with them again, so I'll leave that to you experts....:ezpi_wink1:

But I'm glad you brought up the subject of trace elements. That is another thing I've never used, even for my Malawi's and that is trace elements/salts/buffers for Lake Malawi. The reason why I haven't used them is because most of the fish we buy are in their who knows how many generation of being farm bred. Then it's off to the LFS. So it's very unlikely that these fish have ever been in water even remotley close to their native habitats. So what good would these products be for them?

Millions of years of evolution can't be negated by a few generations of breeding. While cichlids are probably bred to be tolerant of different water conditions, there's no doubt that the more colorful, active cichlids are seen in aquariums with the proper pH and hardness/mineral level.

[Drumachine09]

Saltwater/marine tanks aside, they are a bit more complex of course. As far as plants go, I'm just starting with them again, so I'll leave that to you experts....:ezpi_wink1:


Not to get off topic, but marine tanks arent that hard. I belive it was Chrona that said "Saltwater tanks arent hard to keep, you just have to throw money at them."

[Chrona]

Not to get off topic, but marine tanks arent that hard. I belive it was Chrona that said "Saltwater tanks arent hard to keep, you just have to throw money at them."

*gong rings*

[Drumachine09]

*gong rings*


AND he gets his own gong so you know he is a BAMF who knows what hes doing =P


you may now return to your regularly schedualed aquarium jabber.

[cocoa_pleco]

I do too much for my fish equipment wise. The 20g has a fluval 205, and the 29g a 305 bio-wheel.

The one thing i need to brush up on is algae scraping. The salt tank and the tetra/auratus/brichardi tank is TERRIBLE.

[Rue]

Tsk...short on elbow grease??? :14:

All that tank stuff is likely more for us than for the fish...

...but if it works...and we spend money and our fish are happy...and we're happy our fish are happy...

...then I'm happy too! :hmm3grin2orange:

[Rue]

Speaking of which...did I mention I tracked down a 48" strip light for my 55g tank!

$20...beats spending $100 or more for new...

...and I don't think this one's been used either...it's just a little dusty...

[A340]

Great disscussion everyone ... thumbs2:

As far as the trace elements go, I believe Chrona brought this up with the Cichlids, yes, I agree that generations of farm bred fish is microscopic in comparison to millions of years of evolution, but don't forget, even in the Great Rift Lakes, the biosphere is constantly changing and evolving (not just due to human interferance). So, the fish we buy today have more or less the same needs as the fish they are bred from, which, in theory have adapted to different water conditions. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you (or anyone else for that matter), just trying to look at some things from a different point of view.

Also, regarding water changes in a planted tank (forgive me, I'm new to these types of tanks), but what trace elements do you replenish when you do a water change, I would think that you would be removing them.

Overstocking tanks, depending on the species of fish, aggresion can either be a problem or something that works out positve. I'll admit, the Clowns will out grow a 10g, no question about that. But there are several schooling fish that do better in more crowded tanks.

Also, I agree with XO on the fact that our hobby is a business, and they're out to make money.

I feel, that the bottom line for me, and I'm sure that most of us feel this way, is that the most satisfying feeling (other then healthy and happy fish) is to try and replicate a natural habitat in an enclosed space the best we can.

Thanks for everyones opinions and keep them coming .... :19:

[Lady Hobbs]

Filter gets rid of poo and food. Fish are peeing constantly and not doing water changes is subjecting them to a life in stale water. Even well filtered water will start to smell and become nasty. ICK is in all tanks, as well, and is removed by doing water changes.

As far as chemicals, I use nothing but dechlorinators.

[Chrona]

Great disscussion everyone ... thumbs2:

As far as the trace elements go, I believe Chrona brought this up with the Cichlids, yes, I agree that generations of farm bred fish is microscopic in comparison to millions of years of evolution, but don't forget, even in the Great Rift Lakes, the biosphere is constantly changing and evolving (not just due to human interferance). So, the fish we buy today have more or less the same needs as the fish they are bred from, which, in theory have adapted to different water conditions. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you (or anyone else for that matter), just trying to look at some things from a different point of view.

African lakes are rather large bodies of water, so the water always stays pretty much hard and alkaline. Small changes will occur, obvious, since it's not like the ocean, but that pales in comparison to asking a cichlid to live in a pH that is 10-100 times as acidic and has little hardness (changes the total dissolved solids and thus how they regulate their osmosis dramatically.) like in the case of soft, neutral city water.

Also, regarding water changes in a planted tank (forgive me, I'm new to these types of tanks), but what trace elements do you replenish when you do a water change, I would think that you would be removing them.

Plants are constantly using up trace elements. These trace elements can mostly be found in tap/well water, so doing water changes will replenish them. They include stuff like cobalt, molybdenum, copper, chlorine, sodium, calcium/magnesium (found in tap water as general hardness), zinc, manganese.

Overstocking tanks, depending on the species of fish, aggresion can either be a problem or something that works out positve. I'll admit, the Clowns will out grow a 10g, no question about that. But there are several schooling fish that do better in more crowded tanks.

I've seen the opposite. My 5 cardinal tetras were aggressive and not schooling when placed in a 10g tank with a few other fish. AFAIK the only time when overcrowding helps is in the case of african cichlids or male gouramis, where very tight quarters will stifle their normal aggressive behaviour. I don't think I've ever heard of schooling fish benefiting from overcrowding though

Also, I agree with XO on the fact that our hobby is a business, and they're out to make money.

I feel, that the bottom line for me, and I'm sure that most of us feel this way, is that the most satisfying feeling (other then healthy and happy fish) is to try and replicate a natural habitat in an enclosed space the best we can.

Exactly. That and doing the regular maintenance = happy fish = less work when it comes to disease management

Thanks for everyones opinions and keep them coming .... :19:

Too lazy to quote everything :P

[A340]

Great insight Chrona and everyone!

Lets move on to lighting!

Do you find that many people seem to overdue it with lighting? Reef tanks and planted tanks aside, since reefs are bombarded with natural sunlight in the real world. But for an average communtiy tank, it seems that some people just put to bright of a light in the tank to bring out the fish colours, light that they would never encounter in the real world.

Also, just for the fun of it, I'll leave my tank lights off for one day a week to "simulate" an overcast day. Anyone else do this?

[xoolooxunny]

It's funny you mention it, because I do something like overcast. I have two 15min periods of the day where the lights go off for a little bit of 'cloudiness' during the light hours. I switch the overcast times around, by picking different tabs on the timer.

As far as lighting goes, I think that as long as the fish aren't stressed by it, and it helps to bring out more brilliant colors, then i guess it's helping you get the most enjoyment out of your pets!

[Chrona]

Great insight Chrona and everyone!

Lets move on to lighting!

Do you find that many people seem to overdue it with lighting? Reef tanks and planted tanks aside, since reefs are bombarded with natural sunlight in the real world. But for an average communtiy tank, it seems that some people just put to bright of a light in the tank to bring out the fish colours, light that they would never encounter in the real world.

Also, just for the fun of it, I'll leave my tank lights off for one day a week to "simulate" an overcast day. Anyone else do this?

The only time I've seen people upgrade lighting is for live plants or reefs. The standard lights for the standard tank sizes is really not very bright at all. In nature, even in tannin-filled water, the intensity of sunlight would probably still be much greater. And in the case of planted tanks and reef tanks, well, you have to have the lighting, so it's not really an issue :P

I will shut my lights off and cover the tank on occasion for 24-48 hours to clear out some algae, but that's about it. No reason to do it otherwise imo.

[cocoa_pleco]

I use standard lights on all the tanks but the salt tank, which gets extra. The peacock tank has 0 lighting, but im looking for a light.

[kenyth]

I think that most of us want our fish to be happy AND easy to care for. A tiny overcrowded tank doesn't take us in that direction. You don't have to spend huge sums of money on an effective tank system.

Your biggest concern is biological filtration. You want to be over capacity in this area IMO. This is some of the cheapest filtration available. I am a big fan of the UGF in conjunction with a power filter. When you change or remove the cartridge in the power filter, you won't get an ammonia spike because the UGF will cover for it. The UGF can also rapidly change to accomodate new fish because of it's sheer size. Outside of expensive cannister or sump filters, there is none better for biological filtration. Especially on a dollar for dollar basis. You also have the ability to use different media in the two filter systems depending on your needs.

Properly placed along with the power filter and a bubble wall, you get a great amount of turn over in the water for excellent aeration too.

The only place a UGF does not belong is in a heavily planted tank, where substrate and aeration needs are different.

[Algenco]

I think that most of us want our fish to be happy AND easy to care for. A tiny overcrowded tank doesn't take us in that direction. You don't have to spend huge sums of money on an effective tank system.

Your biggest concern is biological filtration. You want to be over capacity in this area IMO. This is some of the cheapest filtration available. I am a big fan of the UGF in conjunction with a power filter. When you change or remove the cartridge in the power filter, you won't get an ammonia spike because the UGF will cover for it. The UGF can also rapidly change to accomodate new fish because of it's sheer size. Outside of expensive cannister or sump filters, there is none better for biological filtration. Especially on a dollar for dollar basis. You also have the ability to use different media in the two filter systems depending on your needs.

Properly placed along with the power filter and a bubble wall, you get a great amount of turn over in the water for excellent aeration too.

The only place a UGF does not belong is in a heavily planted tank, where substrate and aeration needs are different.

:19: As an "old Timer" I was always pleased with the function of my UGF. Now after many years without aquariums all I hear is how bad UGF are? I had tanks full of hygrophila polysperma that grew like crazy. I've ran them with air, powerheads, and hob's pulling from the UGF.
I'm excited to see someone else who likes them.thumbs2:

[kenyth]

:19: As an "old Timer" I was always pleased with the function of my UGF. Now after many years without aquariums all I hear is how bad UGF are? I had tanks full of hygrophila polysperma that grew like crazy. I've ran them with air, powerheads, and hob's pulling from the UGF.
I'm excited to see someone else who likes them.thumbs2:

They seem to have fallen out of favor, but only because there are "Cooler" filtration systems available. Like I said, UGF's can't be beat in the bio-filtration catagory. They are cheap, reliable, and the main media (gravel) is easily cleaned when you change your water.

[nanaglen2001]

1)Tank
2)Filter
3)Heater/thermometer
4)Light
5)Clean, conditioned water
6)Decorations (substrate, plants, etc.)

More or less that's it.



@ Patrick and the others:

I didnt read the whole thread, but I found out that exactly the above mentioned things are needed. And lots of love and patience.

Amen

PS: you got a Zajac Catalogue at home in Canada ...whow:thumb: