Killer whale kills trainer

[Northernguy]

This is wild!
I wonder what really happened here.
It must have been horrifying.
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I wonder what they plan for the whale now.

[rookie]

wow thats crazy

[UncleWillie]

They still don't haven't released whether or not the whale pulled the trainer in or not...

[UncleWillie]

Geez, every time the news comes on they say "whale killed trainer" then other times they'll say "No, it was drowing" Ahh!

[Northernguy]

Technically she may have died from drowning but I'm sure the whale had a lot do with it.There will be all kinds of so-called-truth until the real story gets out.
There was an audience there.That real story and any gross video will be out soon but hopefully only for a few seconds.

[Algenco]

that's the 3rd person killed by that Orca? Time to do something

[Taurus]

that's the 3rd person killed by that Orca? Time to do something

My exact thought when I heard about it on the evening news.

[octoxpuss]

Now here is the thing. Yeah it killed three people now question is INSTINCT? We can never say we totally domesticated an animal because their naturality is still there. If they kill that whale i would be so P-ed off because it was just acting upon instinct. It is a shame but they should have never of even tried to take an animal of this extrodinary size and try to make it do tricks. I am on his side.

[troy]

Now here is the thing. Yeah it killed three people now question is INSTINCT? We can never say we totally domesticated an animal because their naturality is still there. If they kill that whale i would be so P-ed off because it was just acting upon instinct. It is a shame but they should have never of even tried to take an animal of this extrodinary size and try to make it do tricks. I am on his side.
Yes, but you can't let it continue to kill people.

[UncleWillie]

Northernguy - You're absolutely right.
octoxpuss - I am kinda with and without you on that. I'll try not to open up a can of worms...
I always hate it when someone blames the animal (a bear, gorilla, lion, etc) when they attack someone inside their cage. You're right - you can't blame and animal that kills to survive. I hate it when bears in a national park get put down because some tourist decided to try and see if the bear wanted a bite of their energy bar, or got between a mother defending her cubs.
A killer whale is called killer for a reason... I, too, think the euthanization of a critter for this killer instinct is ridiculous. BUT in this case, this has been a 3rd death and one of many attacks/aggression toward humans. An animal that has this history should not be in that setting. They should either 'free willy' or euthanize it. Since it is the largest in captivity, give to the Smithsonian or something. Or catfood(blush)

[UncleWillie]

Troy, we must have been posting a the same time. And you're right.. you don't let a pitbull that attacks a person continue to live... Sadly, it is the way things work, and of course, we are to blame.

[annageckos]

They are wild animals, NOT pets. They are also very intelligent. I do not believe that it should be killed for peoples mistakes. People want to be entertaned, so the orca is the one that has to suffer a confined life? Then when it snaps they blame the animal?

[octoxpuss]

How do we go about getting these animals. Most or if not all of them come from the wild. We bring them in to TAME THEM. it is so pointless i was there and according to last year there was only one whale that was born in captivity. The one death was not from this whale (hypothermia) it was reported that he bit it. Now in this case it was not during show hours so it was like "oooo food or ohhh toy." Now how do we go about doing all this. Ok question how comes we can kill deer, hmmmmm if your saying that it cant attack us then that means we should not be able to attack them (animals in general) if so ever person that shot a deer, or any creature should be killed. FISHING we not only go into their enviorment to spear fish and then when say a shark comes and gobbles a person we have to go kill. that is BS. We were invading its territory now i think if a person is to dumb to even realize that they are in this animals territory and there is a huge danger then they are comple idiots. What if it was playing, now come on, if i were to play with a huge whale i would expect to die. we are like a feather and i am pretty sure everyone breaks feathers.

[jackson17]

Why don't they stop using it for shows, and just put it in a tank for show at a aquarium?

[octoxpuss]

Why don't they stop using it for shows, and just put it in a tank for show at a aquarium?
Such a great idea!!! That way the only time they would be in an interaction with the crew would be at feeding time.

[Lady Hobbs]

Someday they'll figure out that these are not trained dogs and not put here to just be a source of income for these parks.

[Algenco]

Why don't they stop using it for shows, and just put it in a tank for show at a aquarium?


yes, they need to take it out of the show.
It was not my intent to suggest it be killed, but once can be written off as an accident, 3 times things must change

[i_am_511]

Yea release it back into the wild. I wouldnt say kill it or anything but put a tracker on it and send it back to the wild.

[Rhaethe]

This incident is not particular abnormal.

In general, captive orca pens and habitats resemble very little to what they would have in the wild, and there are studies that show that their lifespan is decreased when kept in this manner. Instead of being grouped with a pod of their own choosing, they are forced into a social group. Many captive orcas are seen acting aggressively toward each other, themselves, and humans. In contrast, orcas very rarely if ever act aggressively to humans in the wild. Former trainers mention it is very difficult to keep orcas engaged and interested in the training process, because their captive environment is dull and boring for them. An interesting article from 1992 is here : [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

For the most part, if there are too many incidents around a particular whale, access to the whale is restricted and shows are no longer done involving them. Kasatka, for example, no longer performs after being involved in three incidents. Tilikum, the orca in this latest incident, was typically kept isolated from the other orcas in captivity, and access restricted because of his history. Why he was a part of this latest show or on public display when he was previously on isolation I am not sure.

Orca trainers and handlers are aware of the high risk of their jobs. Bruises, cuts, bites, broken bones, etc are par for the course. I imagine said trainers are required to sign a release. I have a cousin who once worked for Sea World in Orlando as a sea lion trainer and she mentioned that bites and smacks were common enough and "part of the job" even for the gentlest of the sea lions.

I doubt Tilikum will get euthanized. If they don't recondition him to be released back into the wild he was captured from, he'll be (again) placed under restrictive access.

[William]

First of all it should be said that this is the first death that is confirmed to this Orca. The first time it was one of three that was involved and the second time they simply found him with a body. He surely might have killed the person in question but as far as I read no one knows.

That being said. It seems wrong to keep it in the show but also wrong to kill it as this isn´t a dog that kills, this is a strong animal that easily kill by mistake, that easily can do it by mistake, unlike a dog that need to use much more of its force to do so. I think the solution is to simply take it of the show and make it a display only jacksson said.

[korith]

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has some more info.
"Brancheau was rubbing Tilikum after a noontime show when the 12,000-pound whale grabbed her and pulled her in, said Chuck Tompkins, head of animal training at all SeaWorld parks. It was not clear if she drowned or died from the thrashing."

Apparently this is the 3rd death caused by this whale.

[octoxpuss]

We go back to the death thing. William states exactly what i was thinking. Now one was from drowning and another they just found the body. This is the first that they actually caught the whale in the act.

[Algenco]

We go back to the death thing. William states exactly what i was thinking. Now one was from drowning and another they just found the body. This is the first that they actually caught the whale in the act.


A SeaWorld spokesman said Tilikum was one of three orcas blamed for killing a trainer in 1991 after the woman lost her balance and fell in the pool at Sealand of the Pacific near Victoria, British Columbia.


They shouldn't be playing with these animals

[chrisb01]

I think these animals should be put back in the wild where they belong.

I went to the circus with my children and had to walk out. When the Elephants came out my children pointed out to me that the trainer was hitting the Elephants with a stick with a nail in the end of the stick, sticking the nail in the elephant's legs. My children were upset and asking me why were the elephants being treated like that.

It's no wonder these animals go out of control sometimes. :scry:

[Wild Turkey]

that's the 3rd person killed by that Orca? Time to do something

Seriously! Seaworld really dropped the ball on that one


It makes the "she wouldnt want anything done to these whales because she loved them" comment even more ridiculous. Who would even imply it being someone other than seaworlds fault?

[William]

To bad they are so hard to rehabilitate to the wild.

[i_am_511]

Well just drop it in the water and whatever happens happens...its better then just killing it and no reason to put it in a show tank where it will still have to have contact with the workers to feed it or give it the health check up....... Let it go back into the ocean with a gps tracker it should be find it an animal it will adjust.

If people have wild caught fish in our tanks and they adapt then why couldnt a fish do the reserve and adapt to the wild. Fish gets hungry it will find food to eat and will naturally defend it self

[William]

Thats the problem. An Orca isn´t a fish, It is a mammal and they need to be traine to actively fish again. It is the same with penguins. It can take almost a year of training before they fish/hunt for themself again.

[i_am_511]

Release it then if it dies...more food from the next "water living" thing.

[Wild Turkey]

Thats way too cruel imo. You cant take something out of the ocean and teach it accept food from people and then dump it back into the ocean to die because it killed someone who trained it. Its a killer whale.

If a kid jumps into the tigers pit at the zoo you dont blame the tiger, and you dont send it back to the jungle either. Even if the tiger escapes, its the zoos fault not the tigers.

[Lady Hobbs]

I saw this show in FL and thought it was interesting but also thought how many hours must be spent with these whales to get them to balance a balloon, give rides, let people stand on them, etc. Altho they put on quite the show, the size of the tanks and turning them into dogs really bothered me. You can not help think how lovely it would be if they were in the wild.

All this whale did in the shows was splash the crowd. He is mainly used for breeding with females and has produced 13 babies. It was also reported several of the whales were in distress during the show so it makes me wonder why they were not just left alone to calm down.

The one guy that was supposed to have been killed by him climbed over a fence at night, naked and had gone for a swim with them. Hard to blame the whale for that one but in this case it sounds like he grabbed her and hauled her into the tank.

[William]

Ah good. The killer is only used for breeding. LOL

That should be one thing they dont use him as.

[Northernguy]

Its too bad they are such a huge draw to the parks.
The park will probably make more money now than before even if the whale is in a viewing only tank.Now its a real Killer Whale!
I doubt anyone will trust it enough to work closely with it.
If they do try to keep it for entertainment purposes then someone else may die but the park will keep selling tickets.
There is no quick easy fix for this beast of a fish.I will cost huge amounts to train it for the wild if its not too old.

[Taurus]

I think the solution is to simply take it of the show and make it a display only jacksson said.

I agree. Seaworld has an obligation or responsiblity to keep the Orca safe and let it live out it's life. Seaworld took the risk of keeping an Orca, was willing to accept any financial gain or loss that the Orca brought, and now must must be held responsible for the situation that it created. The responsible thing to do is keep the whale, staff, and public safe. If you take the risk, you must be willing to accept the out come.

Display the whale, study the whale, learn what you can from the whale. But don't put the whale in another situation where harm is likely to be done.

[korith]

This reminds me of stories we hear about elephants that killled or hurt their trainers, or went out of control in public. Last year someone got killed by their pet chimpanzee in california I think. Think people forget these are not domestic animals, they are wild animals that do what comes natural to them. Can't blame the animal.

[Red]

My question is if they do try to put it in the wild and train it to catch fish, who wants to put there life on the line to do that?

[Gramazing]

that's the 3rd person killed by that Orca? Time to do something

Yeah, let them go. They shouldn't be keeping whales as entertainment.

[lowlight]

I don't know how many whales are bred in captivity but the whale in question was wild caught. We can point fingers all day and it won't do any good. I believe the solution would be to stop catching whales and putting them in fish bowls. They may be a big draw at aquatic parks but at what price. The public won't die if there are no more Killer whale shows.

[souly]

Wow its like people seem to assume the Orca has the intent to kill all humanz! The only incidents involving orcas has ONLY been with captive ones. Not a wild one reports as far as I know. Do not rememnber that they are called "Killer" whales? THEY KILL WHALES!

Also in retrospect, only 3 people out of how many people attend the whale? Its not like a bulldog thats been raised to fight so it attacks those it doesn't know, speaking of which, not all dogs that bite get put down. My corgi's bit me before when I was tickling the hell out of my gf. She thought I was attacking her. Now the dog just watches and tries to bring me a toy....I don't relating a orca to a dog was fair at all.

I'd be much for happy with the sucker being put in a display tank than be killed.
The orca might have been even trying to play with the person and didn't know it was killing her.

[Zilla]

This reminds me of stories we hear about elephants that killled or hurt their trainers, or went out of control in public. Last year someone got killed by their pet chimpanzee in california I think. Think people forget these are not domestic animals, they are wild animals that do what comes natural to them. Can't blame the animal.

I remember that. Prior to that, there was the issue with a lion or something that attacked a group of kids were taunting it at a zoo in CA. Sadly that animal was put down and before that was the guy that thought it would be fun to climb into a lions den and that animal was put down.

I have mixed feelings about animals ( any animal) being used for entertainment purposes. The Boston Aquarium has a seal show and part of their team of seals are ones that have been retired from the military. On that alone, I don't have a issue with it as there is substance and some educational stuff mixed it, but do I think seals were meant to spend hours extertaining people? No!

I have never been to Sea World and have no intentions of going anytime soon, but it's impossible to figure out what the real story is as the media is having a field day with this Orca story. Yesterday there was a guy on that insisted that this accident was premeditated by the whale. It was really creepy and made me want to take a shower after listening to him because humans premeditate murder, not animals or fish.

Mystic Aquarium in CT has a educational program. They bring different groups in and have "shows" with animals that cannot be released back into the wild due to injuries or whatever. The last show I saw, they had a bald eagle that was shot in the head and even after surgery, his sight never returned, so he's used for educational purposes.

Before shows are done, there is a short list of rules that have to be followed. If a person doesn't do their part, they are simply asked to leave. The objective of these shows isn't about how animals are trained to do something that is not natural, it's actually about teaching children compassion and empathy and how important it is to have animals such as the bald eagle as part of our ecosystem and how sometimes people don't give wildlife the respect they deserve.

The shows are kept short ( roughly a half hour) and that's it. In all the years I've been going there, they've had all kinds of critters. They've had tanks full of baby alligators to Buluga whales that were there for a breeding program.

I don't know how I feel about this case though other than people can't expect a Orca to do these mind numbing things for hours at a time and expect them to suck it up and deal with it. It's right up with the people that rant about how a sharks only purpose in life is to attack people. It drives me nuts...

[Rue]

I just read the follow-up. This whale isn't out to 'get' people. These are accidents. I think it's unfair to cage a huge animal like this - have accidents happen and then blame the animal for them and suggest the animal be killed.

Can't let the whale go either...he won't make it in the wild.

You work with animals and you get hurt. I was badly kicked by my horse. My fault. Not the horse's. I've been bitten by dogs, scratched by cats and bitten by parrots. My fault. If I get stung by an anemone while cleaning the aquarium it's my fault for not wearing gloves. Don't blame the anemone.

I had a co-worker killed by a 'pet' bull. It happens.

Man...are we ever quick to place blame on someone or something else...:scry:

[octoxpuss]

Well, they are opening the show back up tomorrow. They are going to have the whales preform but no trainers allowed in the water. That is stupid. They are going to take away human interaction for a while and they reintroduce themselves that is an attack waiting to happen.

[frank_zappa]

i hear a lot of people say that they would not make it on their own in the wild, and i am always a little skeptical. i would like to hear several expert opinions not just the one that the news station was probably provided by seaworld. i honestly know nothing about them, but i know they are intelligent animals and i would not be surprised if they could make it, if released in the proper environment, during the proper season, with enough prey etc....perhaps other killer whales would kill them, i dont know. maybe they could release a whole pod of them together? they are smart animals with an instinct to hunt; they could figure it out but seaworld makes a whole lot of money off of those whales, and no way do they want to give that up. that is their bottom line, not the animals.

[William]

take a look over at discovery. They have made atleast one, I believe to series about what it takes to rehabilitate a dolphin/orca to the wild where you can follow the entire process over a year or so. Of course the animals in the shows have had worse lifes than the ones in sea world so they might have some more skill making it a faster process but it would still take time.

Now if they took it as an habit to feed live instead of dead food in the pens than it would be an entirely other situation and it would be a lot easier to release them again.

[Zilla]

I don't anything about rehabs with wildlife, but wouldn't that be different than a animal that was used and kept around for entertainment purposes?

The few people that I know that have done rehabs with wildlife have never tried to domesticate the animals they were working with. In one case, a woman I know of works with alot of raccoons. She handles them as little a possible and if she does have to handle them, it's only because she has to. Otherwise, they are in their enclosure where they have for look for food, wash their food as raccoons are notorious for this and just be what they are, ect.

[frank_zappa]

the animal that did this was once living in the wild. that could give it a chance, i would think they could feed live foods as well...that would probably make them happier, too.

the problem is, seaworld uses it to breed. it has fathered i think 17 babies at seaworld....money maker, bigtime. they do not care if it could make it or not because that animal is the past, present, and the future for them. somewhat of a conflict of interests there.

they should not be breeding them at all in captivity. that right there tells me they do not have the animals' happiness in mind.

[William]

It depends on when it was captured. But yes if it was old enough than it is possible it would still know how to hunt which would makes things easier.

[frank_zappa]

cats, dogs, pigs, horses, cows....

i have heard of all these animals, after thousands of years of domestication, all of them are able to return to a wild state...pigs thrive, actually and are becoming a nuisance in many parts of the country.

[Rue]

If you released a large group of herd animals...probably some would survive...reproduce and maybe even thrive...

The odds of one Orca...who is 'domesticated' surviving in the wild and being accepted by a pod...is very remote. The odds of the Orcas killing it are better than the odds of it making it...

[frank_zappa]

has it ever been attempted? im not saying it is possible or it isnt, but im not sure what that opinion is based on. i just dont think they should be kept/bred in captivity.

[Rue]

Yes...Keiko - orca release...he died...

You can debate whether his release was a success or not...but I'd say not...



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[William]

I agree that they shouldn't really be kept but that doesn´t solve the problems with the ones allready in captivity.

[frank_zappa]

well what's done is done, but they should not be breeding them. i will read the article on keiko

[frank_zappa]

that article didnt make me doubt the possibility of it. keiko was old for a captive whale when they released it after 24 years in a tank, lived for 5 years, and then died of pneumonia. also, i am not sure if keiko was ever introduced to other orcas, though they said that was their eventual goal. i would be interested to see that type of an effort made for a younger animal, perhaps several together, and actually see them interact with wild orcas.

[sunfishman]

breeding whale with a mean streak used as a show whale. seaworld should have seen the writing on the wall. you wouldnt put an old plow horse in the kentucky derby. the whale should have been left alone.