question about water changes...

[niqolas619]

Alright, I finally got my tank all set up and got a few cichlids in it now. I did the fishless cycle thing, so my ammonia and nitrites are staying at 0. My only question is what level do you guys do water changes at to keep the nitrates low. I know that a lot of you guys do weekly or even bi-weekly changes - which I am cool with - but what level of nitrates is the threshold where you think that there should definitely be a water change?

I only ask it in this way because when I was ready to put fish in, I had to do 2 or 3 successive 90% water changes just to bring my nitrates back down to an acceptable level (about 10-15 ppm). I know that the nitrates are supposed to be the least deadly of the 3 chemicals present in the tank, but I haven't been able to find too much info on what level of them are harmful.

Thanks in advance!

[NeonJulie]

I guess it depends on how many live plants you have. I don't have any, so my case is more serious. I love to see 5ppm. It's usually 10ppm though. Anything beyond that gets a water change.

I suspect I may have a heavy bioload for the size of my tank, and now that most of my fish have grown to full size. Especially my dwarf who as you can see, is a huge pig. On Monday my NitrAtes were under 10 when I did my 50% water change. I was hoping to go a whole week since I've switched to bottled water, a buck a gallon. Well by last night, Friday evening they were at 20 ppm. (I hope that's what it was, all those red colored ones look identical to me.) So they got their water change. So now I know, it's probably going to be bi-weekly. Lucky for me, the toilet is right next to the tank, and maintenance is a snap. (Although getting $$$ with the cost of water.)

I'd also been trying to get my neons to eat a new vitamin food though, and when I cleaned the tank, it was easy to see that they ate less of it then I thought. If I go back to crisps, it'll probably slow down quite a bit.

[niqolas619]

Friday evening they were at 20 ppm. (I hope that's what it was, all those red colored ones look identical to me.)

Hahaha, man, I am so glad to hear someone else say that. I thought I was the only one. I was using bottled water for my tank in SD before, but I was hoping I could avoid it for this one. I'm not sure how much the water is here, but in SD I could get it for 5 gallons for $1. A pretty good deal, and well worth it.

Man, 5-10 ppm?! That seems really low. I mean, it's obviously great for your fish, but I don't know if I could maintain a level that low. How big is your tank?

[Cichlid_Man]

Nitrates should be 10ppm, but I have had situations where mine were up at 30ppm for several months and nothing happened.
I have a private well and we hadn't had rain for months so I backed off the water changes.
30ppm will not harm your fish, that's from experience and from reading.
Just do weekly water changes at about 50-75% and you'll never have to worry.
Also, feed less.
I even skip days of feeding sometimes.

[NeonJulie]

Hahaha, man, I am so glad to hear someone else say that. I thought I was the only one. I was using bottled water for my tank in SD before, but I was hoping I could avoid it for this one. I'm not sure how much the water is here, but in SD I could get it for 5 gallons for $1. A pretty good deal, and well worth it.

Man, 5-10 ppm?! That seems really low. I mean, it's obviously great for your fish, but I don't know if I could maintain a level that low. How big is your tank?

It's a measily 12g. And with that dwarf, it's nearly impossible to keep it 5 for long. It's better when I use the bottled water (I've switched to Walmart, 3 gallons for 1.92) because it has 0 NItrates, so I end up lower than I started. If I use my tap water, it's always always 10ppm.

At one point I lost my first dwarf, and only had a school of neons and Otos. It never ever went above 5. He single handedly doubles it, piggy. *lol*

The reason I'd like it at 5 is because I have pesky little issues that keeps my fish from thriving and looking prestine. I just can't win. I don't have any losses, but there's always something... pimple on the dwarf's face never goes away... something whitish clinging to half the neon's tales... some white patches on 2 of the neon's tails... the skinny Oto who wasn't eating much for a while...

I learned my lesson with bottled water though. Yesterday I somehow managed to lower the pH - in the course of one hour - from 7.2 to 6.4. (Apparently too much bottled water/not enough tap water.) Talk about scared... all night I worried about them, but they show no difference this morning - and it's back up to 7.2! :O

Some people (apparently other people...) are cut out for this stuff...

[NeonJulie]

So now I know, it's probably going to be bi-weekly. Lucky for me, the toilet is right next to the tank, and maintenance is a snap. (Although getting $$$ with the cost of water.)

Bi-weekly is low for me... for weeks I've done daily changes... then every other day changes... and mostly three times a week. Trying to cure things, etc. Nothing's improving, so now I'm just trying to get it down to be more manageable, like twice a week. It's almost always 50%, but sometimes like yesterday, 75% depending on how long it takes me to clean up all of his crap. *lol*

Talk about a great looking tank though. When I do daily water changes, the tank looks like a suspended cube of water in the middle of the room.


Years ago we had that 29g. We changed about 25% every two weeks or maybe 3. (Used bottled water). Had NO illness ever!

[newguy]

Is there an advantage to using bottled water over tap water treated with conditioner?

[NeonJulie]

Maybe, maybe not. I guess you need a mix, to get a good steady measurement of General Hardness, Buffering, and pH. Most bottled water measures at like NO hardness, and the bottom of the scale pH.

[Chrona]

It depends on what tap water you have and the bottled water. Spring water is just basically well water. It will have low-medium kH and gH readings and a more or less neutral pH. Distilled water will have nothing in it, period, with a pH of 7.0. Tap water suffices most of the time for freshwater, unless you are keeping very sensitive fish like rummynose tetras or discus and have very hard water, in which case they may benefit from reverse osmosis (ie distilled) water. Otherwise, tap water + conditioner is the cheapest and easiest way to go.

[S13DWS]

I think I should be ok to ask my question in here instead of making new thread.

what I wasnt to know with the whole water changing thing is:

How much do I take out?
Do I have to remove the fish from the tank to change the water as the temperature will drop?
Is it ok to use tap water? (I have tap water in the tank now and the fish seem happy. My sister has these drops which you put into the water to take all the chlorine out.)

[NeonJulie]

Water changes are pretty simple.

It's ok to use tap water. I'm trying other things because my tap water which used to only have 5ppm out of the tap has at least doubled. In plenty of areas, city water changes toward summer time.

Temperature's not a problem, since you should closely match the new water temp to the old. A degree or two off will probably not make too much of a difference. A thermometer is only two bucks if you get a normal one, but a digital is fast and easy and usually eight bucks.

Use "those drops" (although you might read the bottle and find out exactly what it is, and what it does and doesn't do, since that description is pretty vague). You most certainly want to dechlorinate the water before you put it in.

A lot of people do 25%, a larger number do about a 1/3 of the tank, or 33%, and plenty of us do 50% changes. To me, it's how much I need to do, in order to clean the waste off the bottom real thoroughly (unless I'm aiming for NitrAte numbers.) If I use a large gravel vac, 50% of the water is more than gone before I've covered the bottom. If I use my small gravel vac, it's about 25-33% to cover the bottom because it's a slower flow.

Also, water changes should be as stressless as possible to the fish. You should not have to remove them. If you get a smaller size vac then the flow is pretty slow, it's not real large, and they don't seem to mind. I think fish know how fast the water is leaving though, mine seem to get nervous when the water level drops real fast.

[cocoa_pleco]

20% minimum, but more is better

[Lady Hobbs]

I do 50% and sometimes even more every week in my tanks. Cichlids like large water changes. Use a dechlorinator that also removes chloramines. Most of the products now do both but not all.

Tap water is fine. You will want to check to see if your cichlids require cichlid salt. Many do and also need a higher pH. I don't know what type of cichlids you have so check into what they require.

Since your tank is still new, be very careful that you do not over clean anything or you will set the cycle back. If you want to do some gravel cleaning with your water changes, do only small amounts until the tank has been set up for awhile.

Do not remove the fish. This is far more stressful that the gravel vac.