New Aquarium Setup Suggestions

[andper10]

Hi everyone, I just joined here so sorry if this is in the wrong section. I currently have a 10 gallon aquarium with 4 black neon tetras and 4 other fish that I don't know the name of (I have had them for at least 2 years in which time I have forgotten their name), and a small (2 or 3 inch) algae eater. I have an Aqua-Tech Power Filter 5-15 Gallon rated, a Marineland Neptune 50 Watt 10 Gallon rated Heater, and a pet store cheapo brand hood with a flourescent hood (I had a incandescent hood, but the flourescent makes the fish look so much better). I have attached a picture (sorry its not very good quality but I was in a hurry) of the "mystery fish" so hopefully someone will know what kind they are (I am guessing that they are at least moderately agressive). I like the Black Neons and I tried some "plain" Neons, which I also liked, but the other fish did not like them and they were nibbled away at and died quickly. The other fish also killed 5 of my black neons when I added the (6) "plain" neons. Looking back I am guessing that was too many fish for a 10 gallon tank.

I have never really looked into specific aquarium care (and I have had my aquarium for about 4 years). Right now I usually feed my fish 2 or 3 times a day (Wardley Essentials Tropical Fish Flakes), siphon the gravel about once per month (two days in a row doing one half each day b/c i can only clean half of the gravel before the water gets below the filter intake), and top off the tank every week or two with our tap (well) water. The guys at our local Fish shop recommended Reverse Osmosis water or Distilled Water, but that is pretty expensive and I don't have much money to spend on my fish. Also, how ofter should I be changing my filter? I don't really keep track, but if I had to guess I would say once every 4 months. From what I have read I am feeding them too much and cleaning the tank too little. I have also never done any water testing and when I looked into it the strips seemed pretty expensive (almost $20 for a small box of them). Should I be concerned about testing my water (we are on a well if that makes a difference)? I am guessing that everyting is ok because my aquarium is currently supporting 8 fish and an algae eater.

Now, on to the main thing that I started this thread for. I have a 30 gallon aquarium sitting in the garage that is not being used (it was given to me a few years back and I was going to house an animal in it, but that never happened). So with summer coming up I was thinking about putting it into use (and taking down my 10 gallon). My main questions are:
1. Do I need to get my 10 gallon one into a better maintinence schedule before I attempt a 30 gallon tank?
2. How many fish will I be able to get into a 30 gallon tank (I am thinking Tetras, mainly Neons and Black Neons right now, but I don't really know what other tetras are available [I like colorful fish!])? Also, how many is a good number for a 10 gallon tank?
3. How much is it going to cost to get it up and running? I don't want to spend over $50. Is that possible?
3.5 Could you make me up a list of all the things that I will need for an aquarium (i.e. tank, gravel, filter, heater, etc.)? That would be helpful so that I could price things and not end up forgetting something.
4. Can I use my 5-15 Gallon rated Filter from my 10 Gallon tank in the 30 Gallon tank? Would it be more cost effective yet still feasable to get a second identical 5-15 gallon Aqua-Tech Power filter and run 2 of them in the 30 gallon tank? Is that a bad brand of filter? Should I get a different brand instead? By the way it is designed for EZ Change Filters that you just slide in which is nice. If I need to get a new filter, what brand and size / rating should I get?
5. Can I use my 50 Watt (10 Gallon rated) heater (Marineland Neptune) to heat a 30 Gallon tank effecitively and without straining the heater? If not, what power should I get (I am guessing 100 watt) and what brand?
6. It looks like a new 36" flourescent hood is going to cost me about $32 from Petsmart.com (the lowest price that I could find online). Where would be a good place to get a (hopefully cheaper) Flourescent Hood (36")? We have an Uncle Bill's, Petsmart, Petco, a "tropical pet shop" that has a decent selection of fish, and a local shop specializing in fish (it has a very good selection) in our area that I can think of off the top of my head. We also have a Walmart and Meijer with decent fish departments.
7. What fish would go well with Neon Tetras and Black Neon Tetras? Are there any other colorful Tetras or Neon Tetras that are not too expensive?
8. How do I get rid of fish that I don't really want anymore (my 4 "mystery" fish)? I don't want to kill them. Do you think my local fish shop will accept them?
9. If I can't afford to get a 30 Gallon tank up and going, maybe I will just get rid of the 4 "mystery" fish and get some more neons / other tetras for my 10 gallon tank.

Sorry that was so long, but I had a lot of questions.
-Thanks!

[Chrona]

Those are serpae tetra, which are aggressive fin nippers. I've responded in bold below

Hi everyone, I just joined here so sorry if this is in the wrong section. I currently have a 10 gallon aquarium with 4 black neon tetras and 4 other fish that I don't know the name of (I have had them for at least 2 years in which time I have forgotten their name), and a small (2 or 3 inch) algae eater. I have an Aqua-Tech Power Filter 5-15 Gallon rated, a Marineland Neptune 50 Watt 10 Gallon rated Heater, and a pet store cheapo brand hood with a flourescent hood (I had a incandescent hood, but the flourescent makes the fish look so much better). I have attached a picture (sorry its not very good quality but I was in a hurry) of the "mystery fish" so hopefully someone will know what kind they are (I am guessing that they are at least moderately agressive). I like the Black Neons and I tried some "plain" Neons, which I also liked, but the other fish did not like them and they were nibbled away at and died quickly. The other fish also killed 5 of my black neons when I added the (6) "plain" neons. Looking back I am guessing that was too many fish for a 10 gallon tank.

I have never really looked into specific aquarium care (and I have had my aquarium for about 4 years). Right now I usually feed my fish 2 or 3 times a day (Wardley Essentials Tropical Fish Flakes), siphon the gravel about once per month (two days in a row doing one half each day b/c i can only clean half of the gravel before the water gets below the filter intake), and top off the tank every week or two with our tap (well) water. The guys at our local Fish shop recommended Reverse Osmosis water or Distilled Water, but that is pretty expensive and I don't have much money to spend on my fish. Also, how ofter should I be changing my filter?

The filter media should be rinsed in tank water whenever it starts to impede water flow. If you are using activated carbon, it needs to be replaced monthly.

I don't really keep track, but if I had to guess I would say once every 4 months. From what I have read I am feeding them too much and cleaning the tank too little.

Yep, you should be aiming for weekly - every 2 week water changes (of 50% each time) and feeding once a day.

I have also never done any water testing and when I looked into it the strips seemed pretty expensive (almost $20 for a small box of them). Should I be concerned about testing my water (we are on a well if that makes a difference)? I am guessing that everyting is ok because my aquarium is currently supporting 8 fish and an algae eater.

Everything may be ok, but it may also not be. Your fish can get accustomed to poor conditions over time, which is why you are not seeing any ill effects. A test kit is probably one of the most important pieces of equipment you can buy, and will save you a lot more money in the long run than it cost. Get a liquid master test kit. They are about 25 bucks each and perform 70 sets of tests. Having one will allow you to troubleshoot when a situation does arise, instead of shooting blindly.

Now, on to the main thing that I started this thread for. I have a 30 gallon aquarium sitting in the garage that is not being used (it was given to me a few years back and I was going to house an animal in it, but that never happened). So with summer coming up I was thinking about putting it into use (and taking down my 10 gallon). My main questions are:
1. Do I need to get my 10 gallon one into a better maintinence schedule before I attempt a 30 gallon tank?

Yes, I would get the 10g down before committing to a larger tank, which will be more work

2. How many fish will I be able to get into a 30 gallon tank (I am thinking Tetras, mainly Neons and Black Neons right now, but I don't really know what other tetras are available [I like colorful fish!])? Also, how many is a good number for a 10 gallon tank?

Usually about 5-6 small (less than 2 inch) fish will do fine in a 10g. It depends on the type of fish, type of filtration, the particular attitude of the fish, etc. With regular water changes, you could probably fit about 15+, but the idea is to keep them happy, not just keeping them alive. You'll run into far fewer problems with an understocked tank.

I'd recommend some livebearers like guppies or platies, as they are colorful and hardy. More black neons will work too, obviously. They like to school.

For a 30g, as I said, it really depends on the fish, but 15-20 neon size fish will do fine

3. How much is it going to cost to get it up and running? I don't want to spend over $50. Is that possible?

If all you have is the tank, it is possible, but not recommended. If you only get a filter, heater, and fish, that will be over 50 bucks already (if not more). And that includes no decorations, gravel, etc. Better to save up to do it right the first time instead of throwing more and more money to replace poor equipment.

3.5 Could you make me up a list of all the things that I will need for an aquarium (i.e. tank, gravel, filter, heater, etc.)? That would be helpful so that I could price things and not end up forgetting something.
4. Can I use my 5-15 Gallon rated Filter from my 10 Gallon tank in the 30 Gallon tank? Would it be more cost effective yet still feasable to get a second identical 5-15 gallon Aqua-Tech Power filter and run 2 of them in the 30 gallon tank? Is that a bad brand of filter? Should I get a different brand instead? By the way it is designed for EZ Change Filters that you just slide in which is nice. If I need to get a new filter, what brand and size / rating should I get?

Penguin 200
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Stealth heater (100 watt)
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Gravel
Tank
Decorations
Fish
Water conditioner (like Seachem Prime)
Fish net

Aquatechs are not bad, but it's best to overfilter the tank, and 2 aquatechs will barely pull it along.


5. Can I use my 50 Watt (10 Gallon rated) heater (Marineland Neptune) to heat a 30 Gallon tank effecitively and without straining the heater? If not, what power should I get (I am guessing 100 watt) and what brand?
6. It looks like a new 36" flourescent hood is going to cost me about $32 from Petsmart.com (the lowest price that I could find online). Where would be a good place to get a (hopefully cheaper) Flourescent Hood (36")? We have an Uncle Bill's, Petsmart, Petco, a "tropical pet shop" that has a decent selection of fish, and a local shop specializing in fish (it has a very good selection) in our area that I can think of off the top of my head. We also have a Walmart and Meijer with decent fish departments.

Hoods are expensive. I'd concentrate on getting the required essentials first. 32 bucks is not bad for a 36" hood. Other questions answered above. A 50 watt heater is insufficient for a 30g unless your house is very warm all of the time (think 78-80)

7. What fish would go well with Neon Tetras and Black Neon Tetras? Are there any other colorful Tetras or Neon Tetras that are not too expensive?
8. How do I get rid of fish that I don't really want anymore (my 4 "mystery" fish)? I don't want to kill them. Do you think my local fish shop will accept them?

Yes, give them to a LFS or a fellow aquarist.

9. If I can't afford to get a 30 Gallon tank up and going, maybe I will just get rid of the 4 "mystery" fish and get some more neons / other tetras for my 10 gallon tank.

Another possibility. I'd only add 2 more black neons though, total.

Sorry that was so long, but I had a lot of questions.
-Thanks!

[andper10]

So do you mean only have 6 black neons total, or 6 with the 4 serpae tetra? I wasn't including the price of the fish when I put $50 out there. The filter that I am using now is activated carbon. What will happen if I don't change it every month? Is this the test kit that you were talking about: (The Freshwater Master Kit) [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

So, I guess I will just focus on the 10 Gallon tank for now. If I were to buy all the new stuff that I need, would these be good:
$17.09 - 100W Visi-Therm Stealth Heater - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
$29.99 - Penguin BIO-Wheel 200 Power Filter - How often would those cartriges need to be replaced? Or would they just need to be cleaned? - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
$32.99 - 36" Flourescent Aquarium Hood - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
$20.69 - Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Kit - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
$6.29 - Seachem Prime - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
Fish Net - Already Have
Siphon - Already Have
Decorations - Already Have enough to start with
Gravel - 1.99 Per 2 lb Bag, How much do you think I would need for a 30g?
That comes out to $107.05 before gravel and additional fish.
I don't want to spend that much right now. Thanks for the help though! I will just stick to my 10g. But it is nice to know what it would cost to get a 30g up and running. I might go ahead and buy a freshwater master kit and some Seachem Prime if I need it for my 10g.
Thanks for all the help!

[Chrona]

6 black neons total. I'm not liking those serpae. They seem to be very similar to the nasty buenos aires tetra I had.

If you don't change carbon out, nothing will happen, it just won't be useful anymore. Granted many people here don't even use carbon (I don't). People say it leeches phosphates after a while, but I've never noticed that.

Yes that is the test kit I am referring to.

So do you mean only have 6 black neons total, or 6 with the 4 serpae tetra? I wasn't including the price of the fish when I put $50 out there. The filter that I am using now is activated carbon. What will happen if I don't change it every month? Is this the test kit that you were talking about: (The Freshwater Master Kit) [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

So, I guess I will just focus on the 10 Gallon tank for now. If I were to buy all the new stuff that I need, would these be good:
$17.09 - 100W Visi-Therm Stealth Heater - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
$29.99 - Penguin BIO-Wheel 200 Power Filter - How often would those cartriges need to be replaced? Or would they just need to be cleaned? - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
$32.99 - 36" Flourescent Aquarium Hood - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
$20.69 - Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Kit - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
$6.29 - Seachem Prime - [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
Fish Net - Already Have
Siphon - Already Have
Decorations - Already Have enough to start with
Gravel - 1.99 Per 2 lb Bag, How much do you think I would need for a 30g?
That comes out to $107.05 before gravel and additional fish.
I don't want to spend that much right now. Thanks for the help though! I might go ahead and buy a freshwater master kit and some Seachem Prime if I need it.
Thanks for all the help!

[Stingslider]

May I suggest someplace cheaper?

Like bigalsonline.com

Cheaper to buy the heater, filter and stuff here than pet brand store.

[Chrona]

Oh and the penguin blue filter pads need to be changed. The biowheel should not be changed. Some people make their own filter pads using 2 of those black plastic pieces and some filter floss.

[andper10]

So will an old filter with "worn out" activated carbon (activated carbon is the black things in the middle, not the blue meshy stuff, right) not filter out the stuff that it needs to? Or could I just wash the filter in tap water every month or so and then put it back in?

[Chrona]

So will an old filter with "worn out" activated carbon (activated carbon is the black things in the middle, not the blue meshy stuff, right) not filter out the stuff that it needs to? Or could I just wash the filter in tap water every month or so and then put it back in?

Washing the pad will prolong the blue pad, though even it will wear down in time. The carbon has to be replaced every month. There isn't an easy or economical way for hobbyists to recharge it. That being said, you can also use two black frames from those filter pads and stuff filter floss in between. Carbon is really not needed other than for removing meds.

[Lady Hobbs]

Another suggestion? Leave the 10 gallon up and running for those tetra's you have and set up that 30 gallon. You'll need a decent filter for it. I have a penquin 350 on my 30 gallon. They run around $32.

If you're on a tight budget, you can get Play Sand at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. for $3.50 for 50 pounds.

If you don't want the 10 gallon, just transfer everything in that tank over into the 30 gallon. If you do that, you'll only need one more bag of gravel (put the used gravel on top of the new). You will need the larger filter still.

You don't need to buy the expensive filter inserts. I just use filter floss in all my tanks and it works great and filters even better picking up tiny particles. The insert you get with your new filter will get you started and you can use that for the first month and even longer by rinsing it off a few times.

You do need to keep your tank cleaner. That 10 gallon is very condensed and should be cleaned weekly. As long as you've had it set up, you can clean all the gravel at once. Dividing it into different days is good for newly set up tanks but your tank has been running for 4 years and this is no longer necessary. If you plan to just transfer everything over, don't clean it now, however.

Filter floss is about $4 a bag but I have even found a better solution. I go to Walmart and buy a bed pillow on sale for about $2.50. I use the stuffing for my filter floss and you get a lot of it. I have 4 tanks so have had to find cheaper ways to maintain them. I also keep my filters clean and using this cheaper pillow stuffing enables me to do this.

Keeping and maintaining fish is expensive in the initital setup and you always have to be prepared for ICK and fin rot and buying the meds needed to keep them healthy and of course the dechlorinator for the water. However, once a week changing the water and cleaning the gravel will keep them pretty much disease free.