Plants and cycling

[SunSchein89]

Just a quick question... I have a 10 gal tank that has been running with plants in it for about 4 days now. I've added a few plants so far... here's a picture to get an idea

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The filter is brand new with no used media or anything. Water is brand new tap water that was dechlorinated with amquel+. I bought a bag of Activ-Flora substrate that came with some pre-added nutrients. No water changes have been done yet, and I've added one dose of API leaf zone (iron and potassium) to the tank. Anyway, When I first put the substrate and plants in, the next day I tested my water and it came out to (0, 0, 5). I'm guessing the 5 nitrates were from the substrate. Now, today, my water looked a little cloudy so I decided to test it. Results came out to (1, 0, 5). These are all done with api liquid test kits. I really had no idea I would be seeing that much ammonia in my tank in a couple days entirely from plants.

Well obviously my tank has started to cycle. My question is how much ammonia is too much ammonia for just plants? If there were fish in there, I would definitely do a water change at this point, but I don't know anything about toxicity levels for plants. Should I let the ammonia go and let the plants and bacteria feed off it more or would a water change be good to do at this point? Thanks for any help/advice you can give.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

If you have no fish then I assume you are adding ammonia some other way?

Ammonia is not a problem for plants at all. You would have to plant them in concentrations of ammonia much much higher than you will find in your aquarium to end up burning them. The plants are just fine in there and will see no ill effects from cycling, rather they will benefit greatly.

[SunSchein89]

Good to know. Should hopefully get a good amount of bacteria going if I can keep the ammonia up at high levels constantly. I'm actually not adding any extra ammonia at all. The only thing I can think of is that some of the water I took home with the plants had some in it, but it would have had to have been pretty high to makesuch a big difference in the tank.

Only other question I have would be is it safe to do the same thing with nitrites when they start showing up?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

If you are not adding any ammonia then I'd suggest you test your tap water. If you have no fish, are not adding household ammonia, or have something decaying in there, there should be no ammonia.

[Bristley]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are doing a fishless cycle right?

If so you should be adding ammonia in some form to your tank. You'll want to add to get about 4ppm ammonia until you start seeing nitrites, and then cut back to about 2ppm ammonia. Eventually, you'll get to the wonderful 0,0,some params meaning your tank is cycled.

The nitrates that you are seeing right now are actually probably from your tap water. Try testing your tap water to see what you get from it.

Hope this helps.

[Lady Hobbs]

Your tank is not cycling without the addition of ammonia either out of a bottle or with a few fish. Without the addition of this ammonia, you only have a tank of water sitting there.

[SunSchein89]

Alright now I'm getting really confused. Since my tank is slightly cloudy and the ammonia registered at 1 ppm, then I'm assuming this is bacteria starting to eat up the ammonia. So just to find out what my tap water was like, last night I used my test kit and came up with these results

1.0 ppm ammonia
0.0 ppm nitrite
5.0 ppm nitrate
7.4-7.6 pH

Matches the water in my tank pretty much identically. The only thing I don't get is that I used amquel+ as a dechlorinator when I added most of the water which is also supposed to remove ammonia as well. When I first started my tank the ammonia reading was 0. So the only reasonable thing left I can think of is that the plants are somehow producing the ammonia. Maybe one of them has died and I can't tell? I have a few leaves on one plant that are kind of browning, but don't look dead by far. I'll check my filter too in a few minutes to see if there is a bunch of decaying plant material that got picked up and I was unaware of. Anyone else have any ideas?

[Bristley]

Just sounds to me like your tank is matching your tap water. The ammonia reduction that you had at first could have just been a bad reading. (possibly)

Are you using strips or a liquid test kit?

Also could be that you read the initial test in bad or different lighting from subsequent tests and that was giving you a faulty indication.

Either way, you need to add a source of ammonia (for fishless cycling) or add some fish to cycle with (fish-in cycling) in order for the bacteria to grow and start cycling your tank. The bacteria needs that source of food (ammonia) or it will not grow in your tank.

I think it best that since you don't have fish in there right now IIRC, that you get some ammonia and maintain a concentration of about 4ppm in your tank until you see nitrites, and then only add ammonia to keep concentration at about 2ppm until you start seeing an increase in nitrates. Then once you get that you should, very soon be able to get to 0,0,some for amm, trite, and trates respectively. Once you get there, then do a large water change and add fish right away.

[candice&jeff]

Hmmm...I know some plant substrates let off amm. for awhile. :sconfused:

[annageckos]

Amquel will not remove the ammonia. What it will do is convert it for the toxic form to a less toxic ammonium. Both these are used by the same bacteria in the same way. My tap has a small amount of ammonia/ammonium, I use Prime. So unless my tank test over the amount I know is in my tap I do not worry about it.

[SunSchein89]

...Are you using strips or a liquid test kit?

Also could be that you read the initial test in bad or different lighting from subsequent tests and that was giving you a faulty indication.

Either way, you need to add a source of ammonia (for fishless cycling) or add some fish to cycle with (fish-in cycling)...

I've been using an API liquid test kit this whole time; bottles were produced 9/09, so definitely not expired either. When I read the test results I do it under a full spectrum UV bulb that one of my lizards uses so I can get the best light possible to read it under. I'm probably going to add some fish in to start out if I can keep the ammonia down through water changes or if it starts dropping on its own. Anyone know if harlequin rosboras are good starter fish?

Hmmm...I know some plant substrates let off amm. for awhile. :sconfused:

Yeah it could be the activ-flora substrate I added in. I know for a fact that it was sitting on the shelf for awhile since it was covered in dust. When I was looking into it on the website it says they only guarantee their bags for 90 days which is way past when it was in the store I'm sure.

On the bag it also says that it helps with "instant cycling." I figured this was just something they slap on the bag to sell the stuff, but maybe this ammonia reading is actually supposed to happen. If this is the case and it's actually doing what it's supposed to then I think that would be pretty cool to say the least.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

If you have ammonia in your tap water, then there is your ammonia source. Not really a mystery anymore.

[Cliff]

I noticed some drift wood in your tank. If that is discoloring your tank water it could effect how you read your ammo test results. I had that happen to me.

Just thought I would mention it just in case