concerned about my water

[dorkopolis]

Both my alkalinity and PH are very high. They aren't off the charts, but they are both reading between the top two levels on my puny litte test kit.

Nitrate: 30 gallon around 5 ppm ; 10 gallon around 10 ppm

Nitrite: no more than .25 both tanks. (husband asccidentally put some ammonia-laden water into the ten gallon a couple of days ago.)

hardness/GH: about 150 both tanks

KH: about 150 for the 30 gallon, about 90 for the 10 gallon

pH: about an 8.0 for each

Ammonia is non-existent in the 10-gallon and barely present in the 30-gallon.


My main concern is that the pH is too high. I realize that is a hard paramater to lower.

The fish I am most interested in keeping are the peacock eel, my upside-down cat, my pictus, and my platies.

My platys are very important to me. For some weird reason I am currently in love with platys.

Suggestions and constructive-criticism are always welcome. TY.

edited: clarification; spelling; and to add ammonia levels

[Chrona]

Platies (and all livebearers) actually like higher pH, alkaline water. I believe the others prefer softer, slightly acidic water, but as long as they are doing fine in it, don't change anything. Often times, the fish adapted to the pH while at the LFS, and so would much rather have a stable, not-ideal pH than a constantly fluctuating, "ideal" pH. It's usually changing pH and dissolved solids that stresses fish.

[dorkopolis]

Platies (and all livebearers) actually like higher pH, alkaline water. I believe the others prefer softer, slightly acidic water, but as long as they are doing fine in it, don't change anything. Often times, the fish adapted to the pH while at the LFS, and so would much rather have a stable, not-ideal pH than a constantly fluctuating, "ideal" pH. It's usually changing pH and dissolved solids that stresses fish.

good to know!! Thank you.

Laughably, I was able, at 15 years old, to maintain a beautiful reef tank yet never knew that freshwater tropical systems were also similarly demanding. I maintained an overloaded freshwater community tank (65-70 fish in a 55-gallon) when I was around 14 years old and never tested the water a single time. My fish thrived, too. I just learned in the past two months how important cycling and water parameters are for freshwater fish. I'm embarrassed to admit it.

If the peacock eel (he's the only fish my husband has ever personally been interested in) seems unable to cope with my water, would I be able to buy bottles of distilled or deionized water to fill a tank for it, and then adjust the pH and whatnot? It seems our eel is learning to cope -- we've had him for about 3 weeks -- but he is still extremely shy and mopey. (I'll start a thread about him later.)

[Lady Hobbs]

Fish we get are farm raised in big cement tanks. They are shipped to the distributors and distributors ship to stores. Water is under constant changes for them and they have adapted to pH different from what they'd have in the wild. As long as it isn't ridiculously high, like in cichlid tanks, they should do fine as Chrona says.

Livebearers need salt, BTW. Probably more important to them than the pH levels.

[Chrona]

Fish we get are farm raised in big cement tanks. They are shipped to the distributors and distributors ship to stores. Water is under constant changes for them and they have adapted to pH different from what they'd have in the wild. As long as it isn't ridiculously high, like in cichlid tanks, they should do fine as Chrona says.

Livebearers need salt, BTW. Probably more important to them than the pH levels.

The salt issue again :) They don't need to have it, but whether or not it is beneficial is still up in the air. I say nay. When the salt in their natural environment is mentioned, it's not the NaCl salt they are talking about

[Lady Hobbs]

OK. I thought livebearers needed it.

[dorkopolis]

The salt issue again :) They don't need to have it, but whether or not it is beneficial is still up in the air. I say nay. When the salt in their natural environment is mentioned, it's not the NaCl salt they are talking about

LOL. Salt, or no salt, you guys? I thought mollies preferred it, but that platys didn't like it?

If salt coult help my livebearers, I'd move all of them to my 30 gallon and remove the glofish and the betta from it. Can pictus tolerate salt?

I just moved my injured little molly to a hospital tank and the teaspoon of aquarium salt freaking revived the half-dead little darling.

[Rue]

Mollies need salt...they just don't do as well in the aquarium without it...the others all do well with tonic levels...

[Chrona]

Mollies need salt...they just don't do as well in the aquarium without it...the others all do well with tonic levels...

Mollies do seem to do better with some salt, but whether or not other livebearers needs it is a subject of great debate.

dorkopolis - Revive may not the right word. Most of the time, when people see that "come alive" thing, it's usually just the shocking effect of extra salt on fish osmosis.

Catfish usually can't tolerate any level of salt.

I'll see if I can find the thread we had a big debate over salt in.

[Chrona]

Well I gave up trying to find the thread. Here is an excellent article that basically sums up the points:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[dorkopolis]

Well I gave up trying to find the thread. Here is an excellent article that basically sums up the points:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

thank you so much for your effort and attention. What I think I may eventually do is establish a brackish tank for my mollies. I love bumblebee gobies and the little brackish puffers. It would be a pleasant tank to keep, no doubt. Also, I wouldn't feel compelled to OVERSTOCK it like I do with my other tanks thumbs2:

I'm definatley going to read that article more than once. There has been an incredible amount of new knowledge, information, tactics, etc since I last kept any fish, let alone freshwater.

My last freshwater tank was a 55 gallon community that never had a single water test done. I had it when I was 15 and I'm now 26. So ... yeah ... I'm old and a noob all over again :)

[Lady Hobbs]

I've read the article before but this is not mentioning live-bearers but salt in general. You read anywhere on the net regarding livebearers and it does mention they do better in salt. Whether true or not, who can really say? It rather comes down to ones personal opinion and whether one wants to use it for not. I had 4 platies with only one remaining. 3 have died now for no apparant reason in water good enough for angels to spawn. It could be the pH, it could be the water or it could be because I don't use salt.

I think we all have to keep fish in the manner that works for us personally and what makes our fish appear the happiest. If we all did everything exactly the same way, there would be no point in having a forum to discuss our own personal views.

I don't personally use salt, as mentioned. But have I any way of knowing which fish is happiest with or without it. No. I'm not a fish.

[Chrona]

We don't have any way of determining whether or not the fish is happy. And I'll agree that there hasn't been enough tests performed to determine how salt effects various types of diseases. However, the whole idea behind maintaining a "tonic" level of salt in the aquarium at all times is to try to recreate the natural environment for fish. The article explains why this is not correct. I've read a lot of those articles too, but have never seen any kind of scientific explanation showing why or how they came to the conclusion that livebearers do better. All they have are anecdotes in an environment with uncontrolled factors, evidence that would be laughed at in any scientific community.

Hobb - Taken from the BMT article:

"another fallacy is the addition of NaCl for livebearers. These fish as a group are native to estuarine environments where the waters are likely to be hard and alkaline at least and may even be brackish. The addition of sodium chloride (i.e., "salt") does absolutely nothing to match these species native waters since salt as comprises only a small portion of the total "salt" concentration -- the more significant elements are calcium, magnesium, potassium, boron and silicate salts.

It's important to note that the term "salt" isn't limited to sodium chloride. Calcium and Magnesium salts of carbonate, silicate, phosphate and borate are actually more important to the biology of brackish water fish. If your water is at least moderately hard (GH and KH 8-12) then the addition of some NaCl will do no harm. On the other hand if your water is soft and acid the addition of sodium salt will do little good. You need increased buffering capacity as much as the addition of minerals to the water and NaCl alone does absolutely nothing in this regard. You will need to add crushed coral or aragonite, both of which are primarily calcium carbonate salts, in addition to 'salt' as sodium chloride or better still, use marine salt mix which contains the whole range of cations and anions (positively and negatively charged ions, such as Na+, Ca ++; Cl-, CO3--) found in the sea. This will adequately buffer your water and more closely match the native waters of most live bearers in question."

[dorkopolis]

quick question regarding salt ...

are any of the following SENSITIVE to salt? :

betta, neons, zebra danios (kid has two glofisish,) pictus.

I'll have to do some fish tank toggling if platys actually can handle tonic levels of salt and i choose to use it.

[Chrona]

quick question regarding salt ...

are any of the following SENSITIVE to salt? :

betta, neons, zebra danios (kid has two glofisish,) pictus.

I'll have to do some fish tank toggling if platys actually can handle tonic levels of salt and i choose to use it.

Neons do not like salt. All catfish are all intolerant of any level of salt I believe.

[dorkopolis]

The addition of sodium chloride (i.e., "salt") does absolutely nothing to match these species native waters since salt as comprises only a small portion of the total "salt" concentration -- the more significant elements are calcium, magnesium, potassium, boron and silicate salts.

It's important to note that the term "salt" isn't limited to sodium chloride.

As a former marine fishkeeper and a current chemistry student at university, I am happy to see that such points are addressed. At the moment, I'd be wary of introducing salt to an entire population in a community tank, just because it seems more reasonable to put a salt-loving fish in a tank that would accommodate it rather than subjecting less saline-amorous fish to such an environment.

ETA: thanks once again. I'll not be doing a tonic salt dose to either of my community tanks. :)