Idea? Closed Loop Filter In Basement...

[theleetbeagle]

I have a 125g aquarium that will be on my first floor.

I want to have the filter, heaters, pumps directly below it, in the basement... a drop of 10'-12' feet.

I do not want to use overflow boxes and my tank is not and will not be drilled.

So any type of non-watertight sump system is out as it will simply drain the tank.

So I have devised a completely closed-loop system that, in my head, should work fine. The only problem I foresee is a possible oxygen deprivation problem. If so, how can I resolve that? Any suggestions or mods would be helpful.

I would like everyone's thoughts...

I have not seen this type of system anywhere on the 'net, which leads me to believe there is an inherent problem somewhere that I have thought thought of.

[aspects]

Is there any particular reason you do not want t use an overflow and sump system?

[gadget228]

Your going to need shutoff valves on the inlet and outlet that are level with the filter, otherwise when you open the filter for maintenance the water in the supply pipes will overflow the gang openings.

I would have one heater in the filter and the second in the aquarium.

Bio-media is general last in most filters, rename the charcoal chamber to extra media chamber, you won't use carbon all that much.

Water pump is going to have to be a good size one to lift the water that high and not produce too much flow.

I would also install a drain valve in the bottom of your filter in case you have to completely drain it.

Like your idea, just needs some tweaking.

[Crispy]

An overflow will not drain your entire tank. The water stops draining when it hits the top of the overflow. This system makes the most sense for aquariums because it is much easier to maintain a sump than a closed loop system. I have seen your system online before albeit much smaller. What you are trying to build is more like a DIY canister. It's been done and also works.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

I see a problem with the pump having to pump the water up 10-12ft. Most pumps will lose a ton of gph flow with that kind of head. You'll need a killer pump to be effective.

[aspects]

that's the link I was just looking for. Lol.

[theleetbeagle]

Thanks. Yes, planned on having shutoffs on both inlet and outlet up near the tank and also a drain at the bottom.

Was unsure of proportions for mech, bio and chem filtration as I've never gone that route before.

How to use charcoal? Can I just place it in a mesh bag and set it in the pipe?

Bio balls? Do they do their own thing or? Do I just place new ones in the pipe upon initial setup and bacteria will grow in them on their own accord?

[Crispy]

How to use charcoal? Can I just place it in a mesh bag and set it in the pipe?

Bio balls? Do they do their own thing or? Do I just place new ones in the pipe upon initial setup and bacteria will grow in them on their own accord?

Charcoal is unnecessary unless removing meds or tannins. Bioballs will do their own thing, but take some time to build up enough beneficial bacteria.

[theleetbeagle]

RE: overflows. Against them for the following reasons:

1. Trying to keep the ascetics of the tank as clean as possible.

2. Don't *fully* understand their principle. I know their goal and how it does it, but I can just barely grasp the concept. Think I need to see one in real life.

2a. Don't want to buy a manu unit or build my own because:

3. I'm now set on this idea. Once I get one in my head I need to see it through to completion.

I checked the MF thread... same idea, glad you linked it. Thanks.

[hockeyhead019]

great project! looks like a ton of fun... as everybody said your gonna need a massive pump to get it going up that high... and in regards to the oxygen why not install a bubble stone and pump config somewhere after the motor... that way it will bubble up the tube and diffuse into the water as it moves up the tube back into the tank.

also i would consider two pumps as opposed to one, as it may be cheaper and you could place one in front of your filtration unit as well as after it to keep flow through the filter unit.

[aspects]

RE: overflows. Against them for the following reasons:

1. Trying to keep the ascetics of the tank as clean as possible.

even with your proposed system, you will still need an intake and return pipe in the display tank. Being that its a DIY, I assume you plan to use PVC or CPVC for your plumbing. This will leave you with the same aesthetic situation you would have with a PVC overflow system, or even a store bought canister filter. Furthermore, most pre fann overflow boxes (or "slimmer" boxes) are constructed out of clear acrylic, making them near invisible in your display.

2. Don't *fully* understand their principle. I know their goal and how it does it, but I can just barely grasp the concept. Think I need to see one in real life.

I know what you mean. It took me a little but of reading and talking with people who have built them before I fully grasped the concept. But once I got it, I realized just how simple they really are. If later on you are interested in taking on a DIY PVC overflow, I'd be more than happy to help you out.

2a. Don't want to buy a manu unit or build my own because:

3. I'm now set on this idea. Once I get one in my head I need to see it through to completion.

[b]now this one I COMPLETELY understand. I'm the exact same way. I once built a 5g wet/dry sump for a 1g tank. Lol. Much like your proposed system, it was not the most practical way to filter the tank, but I did it anyway. [/n]

I checked the MF thread... same idea, glad you linked it. Thanks.

While your project is possible, it doesn't seem the most practical or effective way to filter a 125. Considering your pump will need to pump 625-1250GPH @ 12' of pump head, the pump alone is going to cost you more than its really worth IMO. You could just as easily spend that money on an FX5 which would effectively filter your tank.

[Crispy]

While your project is possible, it doesn't seem the most practical or effective way to filter a 125. Considering your pump will need to pump 625-1250GPH @ 12' of pump head, the pump alone is going to cost you more than its really worth IMO. You could just as easily spend that money on an FX5 which would effectively filter your tank.

Agreed. This is going to cost way more then the op thinks just for the pump alone.

[Padams]

Thanks. Yes, planned on having shutoffs on both inlet and outlet up near the tank and also a drain at the bottom.

IMO they need to be at "filter" not tank. (never have a water valve you can't get to quick or that someone else might turn on while you're working on it) then by using compression fittings the whole filter could be removed for maint. By doing this you could also elevate and strap to bottom of floor joist or "box" an area for it. This would also lessen pump cost. (just make sure to put rubber buffers next to joist to reduce vibrations)


Was unsure of proportions for mech, bio and chem filtration as I've never gone that route before.

How to use charcoal? Can I just place it in a mesh bag and set it in the pipe?

With as far a you seem to be going add a bypass to run carbon if necessary before the pump

Bio balls? Do they do their own thing or? Do I just place new ones in the pipe upon initial setup and bacteria will grow in them on their own accord?


on another note how are you gonna eliminate pressure lock on the pump when you do maint? primer?

[aspects]

Actually, if the tanks on a stand, I guess you're looking at closer to 15' of head pressure.

[thatcichlidguy]

I have to agree, the pump alone will be quite expensive and one that can overcome that high a head will be pretty loud . Even in the basement. Your looking at an industrial or agricultural use pump for that application. Quiet they ain't.

On it's face the design looks sound but there's really no need for charcoal. It's a "specific use" media and isn't needed for daily use. If you do go ahead and build it besure to install cut off valves and some quick disconects to aid in servicing .

Really though what your trying to build is a giant canister filter . You'd probably come out cheaper in the end just buying a couple of good canisters and hiding them in the stand. Just my two cents.

[theleetbeagle]

How loud are canisters? The one true reason I am doing this is for the tank to be absolutely quiet.

Also, I don't think I'm going to need this monster pump everyone is talking about. I won't be running 4" pipe to the tanks. On the contrary, probably 1" or even garden hose.

Thoughts?

[Crispy]

How loud are canisters? The one true reason I am doing this is for the tank to be absolutely quiet.

Also, I don't think I'm going to need this monster pump everyone is talking about. I won't be running 4" pipe to the tanks. On the contrary, probably 1" or even garden hose.

My Fluval FX5 is dead silent and probably about the same price as the pump you would need. These canisters are perfect for your size tank and fairly easy to maintain.

1" hose is usually the standard for most pumps and it's still going to take a monster pump with your 10-12' head. Pumps usually lose half of their gph flow at 4' nevermind 10'.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

This filte ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.])r would also do that tank quite nicely, and I can vouch for Eheims as being dead silent as well.
GM72 has the filter I linked you to and can vouch for it's quality.

[aspects]

How loud are canisters? The one true reason I am doing this is for the tank to be absolutely quiet.

it all depends on the canister. Generally speaking, they are quiet if you get a quality product. And if your stand is enclosed, you shouldn't hear them at all. Stay away from marineland and you'll be fine. Best net is to invest in a couple of eheims.

Also, I don't think I'm going to need this monster pump everyone is talking about. I won't be running 4" pipe to the tanks. On the contrary, probably 1" or even garden hose.

it has nothing to do with the size of the pipe, but rather the pump head (how far the pump has to push the water vertically). IF you can find a pump rated to handle 15' of head pressure, it will be both loud and extremely expensive.[/b]

Thoughts?

[b]you're really better off going with an overflow system and a sump or a canister (or 2) for many reasons[/U]

Trust me, I can fully appreciate DIY projects, even ones that aren't necessarily sensible, but in the end, this is more trouble than its worth. After all, its only a 125.

[lowlight]

I have a Rena Xp3 and I can't hear it at all.