I'm Finally getting an African Tank

[krystalsohun]

So my friend is getting rid of her 55 gallon tank. i naturally offered to take it off her hands. and now i want to make it an african cichlid tank. So i have a few questions and was wondering if you guys could help me. first of all the only place in my area that sells africans is petsmart. my petsmart isnt as bad as most they do quaranteen in separate tanks. I know i cant obviously put big ones in there or ones that will become to big. I will be putting crushed coral for the substrate and will be building a pyramid with river stones that will have several throughways and caves for them to hide in. i was thinking possibly putting a small powerhead in the middle inside of the pyramid so that it will create a current to push out the poop that could get stuck inside. Good idea?? also what kind can i get any suggestions on stocking this tank? I was thinking that since they are really aggressive and this is a small tank i might do almost all females. is that okay or do they change sexes like certain saltwater do? and do you think all the ladys would get along better without so much testosterone lol. looking forward to your input. thanks in advance.

P.S. I will be putting two aquaclear 110 on the back of this thing for filtration.

[Red]

I would do 1 male per 2-3 females. I would do some nice yellow labs with some rustys and some other mbuna that you like. Maybe go to petsmart and see what they got, come back and tell us what you like?

[krystalsohun]

well idid look at petsmart and i did like the labs. also the ahli but they get to big i believe. also like the blood red jewels (might be to aggresive), and there was one marked assorted that was bright yellow with two horizontal stripes one on top of his fins and one slightly below that. can any of these fit?

[Lab_Rat]

Avoid the red jewels (a riverine cichlid that is quite nasty) and the yellow ones with the horizontal stripes (Melanochromis auratus, the bad boy of mbuna). Also avoid chipokae and kenyi for aggression reasons. The crabo will likely get too big for a 55g and the acei do get on the larger side but I kept them in a 55g without issue.

Yellow labs are a great bet as are socolofi (usually Petsmart has them in the snow white variant). Greshakei, estherae, and callainos could go in your tank as well, though the zebra types may cross breed. I've not seen rustys at Petsmart, but if yours has them they would be another good choice.

[190MPH]

As the others have said, I would try to stay with less aggressive species, and I believe 3 species is a good number for a 55. There are some where the m/f ratio is not as important as some of the others. Yellow Labs always seem to come up, as well as the Rusties(I have 3/4-1" fry growing right now, wink, wink!). Another you might consider is Pseudotropheus Acei. I think that 6-7 of each would be a good number to start with, but you could probablt get away with a few more, especially with 2 AC110's. Not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but check this out. http://www.cichlidforum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php
It's a good reference and the site itself is a wealth of info on Cichlids only.

[krystalsohun]

My petsmart doesnt have acei it has something blue called ahli. this spieces cant go with others of its kind so i think that i cant have that one. Gonna go look at rusties WInk WInk. ;) I like the yellow labs think i'll get a few. how do you tell the males from the females? all the ones at petsmart are like 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch long and look the same ut are in the same tank with blue little ones.

[Lab_Rat]

The non-dimorphic mbuna can be quite hard/near impossible to sex at a young age. The blue ahli is a peacock and peacocks really shouldn't be mixed with mbuna. It often results in dead peacocks. Plus, the ahlis get a bit big for a 55g iirc (I've not done much with peacocks). You could do an all peacock tank with the smaller peacock species if you want. The females are easy to distinguish from the males with them.

[Lab_Rat]

The non-dimorphic mbuna can be quite hard/near impossible to sex at a young age. The blue ahli is a peacock and peacocks really shouldn't be mixed with mbuna. It often results in dead peacocks. Plus, the ahlis get a bit big for a 55g iirc (I've not done much with peacocks). You could do an all peacock tank with the smaller peacock species if you want. The females are easy to distinguish from the males with them.

Nevermind, the ahli is a hap, not a peacock. I'm not very good with Malawi outside of the mbunas. :14: I still wouldn't mix it with the mbuna though.

[krystalsohun]

Well looks like i want munbas lol. So can rusties and labs be mixed?? i assume so since theya re both on the less aggressive side of the munba spectrum. can i put a pleco in there or somekind of cleaner crew? if i did do the rusties and yellow labs how many could i safely put in there with and with out cleaner crew? thanks guys you have been so helpful

[Lab_Rat]

Rustys and labs would go well together. You could do 7-8 of each, plus a bristlenose pleco for clean up.

[Deleted User]

The PetSmart's around us actually have a pretty good selection of African cichlids and you may also want to take a look on Aquabid.

Congratulations on your tank! I hope you'll enjoy your African cichlids as much as we enjoy ours http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/smileys-91853/aiw/yes.gif

[kaybee]

...I was thinking that since they are really aggressive and this is a small tank i might do almost all females. is that okay or do they change sexes like certain saltwater do? and do you think all the ladys would get along better....

The juvenile pattern of most dimorphic african cichilds is retained by the females, so when the males transform in color (going from blue to yellow or orange to blue-black, etc), gender isn't changing. Mbuna's do not change gender but in certain circumstances with some dimorphic species, subordinate (and usually immature) males may appear female to avoid becoming a target of aggression. For most species the ability to do this disappears when maturity is attained.

African cichlid aggression is for the most part all relative. Males are generally more aggressive than females but these fish are by nature hierarchial and aggressive, so even in an all-female tank an established pecking order, probably enforced with aggression, may be present. With some species gender doesn't matter as far as aggression is concerned. In my experience female pseudotropheus demasoni's, pseudotropheus socolofi and (definately) metriaclima msobo aggression is equal to that of the males (even in set ups where both genders are present).


...I like the yellow labs think i'll get a few. how do you tell the males from the females? all the ones at petsmart are like 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch long and look the same....

At 1/4th to 1/2 inch, both genders of the monomorphic mbuna species are identical in appearance and will for the most part remain indistiguishable until they surpass 2.5" in size, and even then the gender indicators (which do exist) aren't readily apparent.

[krystalsohun]

Thanks aybee so much you answer all my questions. I think I'm gonna go with yellow labs and rusties, so you guys are saying that i could fit 7-8 of each speices in a 55 gallon and they can stay in there or would this be the grow out tank?? also do they need special cichlid food or is the hikari regular cichlid fine?? I saw something that said it was for africans called attack?? any good

also since i know i shouldnt put 16 fish in a tank at once who do you suggest go in first and how many at a time?? thanks guys for the help

[190MPH]

I'm not sure what ingredients and protein/fat contents are of the hikari regular food, but whatever you use wants to be lower protein and fat content for Malawi fish. From what I can tell, probably 45% or less protein and ~5% fat. From my research, diet, stress, and poor water quality are the 3 biggest contributors to Malawi Bloat. The importer/breeder that I got my stock from recommended 2 brands, Dainichi and NLS, although I know many use Hikari, just check the contents.

As far as stocking goes, with 2 AC110, I think 7-8 of each will be fine. And if you are fishless cycling, you can add them all at once when the cycle is complete. I FL cycled my 125g and added 38 mbuna at one time. They are all thriving and breeding.

[krystalsohun]

I'm gonna add the old media from my 100 gallon to the new filters. so that's not exactly fishless right? can i add all of them still? thanks for the help guys i never had a tank with so many fish i wanted to put in at once. just usually buy a few then keep looking for more.

[190MPH]

When you add the old media, you may want to dose some ammonia just to be sure, maybe 1ppm. I'd check it like I was doing a fishless cycle then. I don't know how bio-load much one JD would produce, but I'd guess that a decent sized one would produce the same as 16 small mbuna @ 1" because of it's body mass. I'm sure others will offer suggestions as well.

[krystalsohun]

i havent change it in a while since i was supposed to change it the day after i found out i was getting the new tank. do there should be a decent amount in there i would assume.

[190MPH]

When you say change it, do you mean you remove and completely replace the media in the filter every time you clean the filter?

[krystalsohun]

well on the 100 i have two 110s and i normally replace two of the bags every coupole of months and the thirds bio bag like every 6 months or so. I am not at home and i cant think of what one of the other two are, i know one is floss. normally i rinse them off when my params start to change and then my params are fine so i leave it. am i doing something wrong??

[190MPH]

Most filter media can be ru-used for a long time. The manufacturers want you to replace it for obvious reasons, $$. Generally, you can rinse the media in old tank water and re-use. Just give any sponges a gentle squeeze to remove the loose dirt, and shake the media bags in the old water to clean out dirt also. Just keep and eye on your parameters, mainly nitrate, to guage your maintenance schedule. I rinse mine under the tap, but I have well water, so I don't need to worry about chlorine or chloramine. As far as floss like poly pillow fill, I keep rinsing and re-using that until it starts falling apart, then I replace.

[krystalsohun]

i replace once it doesnt come as clean as it used to, and when i find i'm having to rinse it more often becuse the params are messed up. the floss is cheap so when i see it start to get torn i change it. guess in this aspect if i can afford to change it often then its better for me maintanence wise. would my changing it so often effect how soon to put the africans in there. also since the ph is 6.5 on my jd tank and the african tank will be between 7.5 and 8 do i need to switch anything with the filter so i dont shock the bacteria and kill them.

[190MPH]

Changing the floss when its beat up is fine, that's what I do because it's cheap like you said. Changing the floss won't affect stocking the tank, but if you change a bunch of media, you sometimes risk a spike, but opinions vary with that as far as where all of the benficial bacteria live. For comparison, I have not changed any filter media, other than floss or a polishing pad, in my canister or HOB on my 72g community tank in 10 months. I just rinse and re-use. I know some have claimed using the same media for years.

As far as the pH goes, I don't think the change will hurt the bacteria. From what I've read, it's when the pH goes way down on the acidic side, like 5, that it may become a problem. What is the pH of the water from your source naturally? What about the KH and GH?

[krystalsohun]

My ph out the tap is 6.7 the kh is 6 and gh 12 i believe. if that doesnt make since then the gh and kh are switched lol not at home and i cant remeber which is which. i will be adding crushed coral as a substrate to up the ph. so how am i doing so far?? also i want to put a. nana in there with the labs and rusties are the same ferts i use on the jd tank fine?

[190MPH]

Yeah, that pH might be a little low, the KH and GH seem fine. My pH is about 7.8, KH 5, GH9. I use pool filter sand as a substrate. The crushed coral will help raise those #'s, and you can also put it in your filter in a bag. As far as plants and ferts, that I can't say much on. I only have 1 Java Fern in my tank as an experiment, and I use no ferts. Be aware that many plants are a snack to mbuna, and that they may uproot them when they dig too. I've read some people have used them with success, but just as many have had them uprooted or eaten.

[krystalsohun]

I'm aware that they can get eattn or the fish will redecorate the tank with them. however my unruly jd lets me keep them in there so i'll try with these guys. i was gonna build a pryamid of rocks and stick the anubis nana in some of the holes of the pryamid since they dont go in the substrate. when i'm doing water changes will the difference in ph from the tap to the tank be bad for the fish or should i do something to the water before adding it?? thanks you guys have been so much help.

[190MPH]

Sounds good with the plants. As far as the water, I'm not sure how I would handle that. I know some like to treat theirs in a storage tank of some sort before hand, although you may be able to do it as you do a WC. Try doing a search for "rift lake buffer recipe" The other thing that might work would be smaller water changes. If you did 25%, then theoretically if there was a 1 point difference in the pH, it should only change .2 -.3 after a WC. Maybe others will give their input on this because I'm spoiled not having to change anything.

[krystalsohun]

they put it in the tank i believe to have some of the gases breathe off before putting it in but i dont think it effects the ph level. not quite sure though. thats my biggest concern getting evrything ready and beautiful fish and then do a water change and everything dies lol.