New Tank Problems - HELP

[brian2452000]

The forum ate my first post so here goes again......

About 8 weeks ago, I setup my 55gal freshwater tank. With the recommendation of my local pet store I purchased 6 2-inch Blind Cavefish to use as starter fish. Things were good and after about 6 weeks I noticed that my ammonia levels had reached about 1.5ppm. After a few days they dropped back to zero but I never had a Nitrite spike. I went to the pet store and they told me that sometimes nitrites come and go so fast you miss them (this seemed strange to me that a 55gal tank could cycle all its nitrites in the 24hrs between water tests but whatever).

At this time I assumed my tank had cycled and I purchased 2 baby oscar fish to add to the tank (I know that they need a bigger tank and dont get along with some fish, I was going to move them to a new home after they got bigger, they are only 2 inches now) I brought them home and added them to the tank and they seemed to be ok. After about 24 hrs I noticed that one of them was acting real lethargic and not swimming or doing anything. He would hide in the trees and not even move. The next morning I woke up and found him stuck on the filter with his fins all chewed up.

I took a water sample back to the fish store and they told me my water was fine. They gave me a replacement fish and I took him home and the same thing happened again. After about 24 hrs both fish started acting real weak, like they couldnt move or breathe or anything. I tested the water and the ammonia was up to almost 2ppm. I immediatley did a 40% water change and did so for 3 consecutive days, but both oscars died. I observed the biggest cavefish chewing on one of the Oscars fins when he was too sick to defend himself, and I can see nipped fins on a couple other of the cavefish.

Since the Oscars died, my water levels have returned back to normal and the cavefish seem happy as ever, darting all around the tank and sucking up food faster than I can give it to them. I find it hard to believe that I add 2 2-inch oscars and my tank blows up but who knows. Maybe it wasnt cycled to begin with since Ive never seen any nitrites in the tank. I thought filtration might be a problem, Im using a Top Fin 60 powerhead I bought at the fishstore. Its rated for 55 gallons but im not sure if its enough. I just purchased a Filstar XP3 and that should be here in the next day or two.

Sorry for the long post, but I figured you guys would need some info. THANKS!!!!

Brian

[hungryhound]

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You don't say. I always thought it went more like this "asdlkfjlasdfa;sldfjkasdlkfj"

If you actually need help please post a question.

[brian2452000]

LOL sorry, it ate my fist post so i wanted to see if it worked. haha

[hungryhound]

LOL sorry, it ate my fist post so i wanted to see if it worked. haha

Oh it is fine. I just wasn't sure if your post was spam or not as we have been seeing quite a few trolls on the board the last few days.


Anyways on to your problem.

It seems to me that your tank was not cycled when you added the Oscars. Oscars are notoriously messy fish and they may have overwhelmed what little bioload you had at the time.

From your post it appears that you have an ammonia test kit, but it sounds like you do not have anything else. Investing in the liquid test kits (paper strips are not as accurate) can save you the hassle of carting your water to the store and it gives you immediate feedback on your water parameters. Plus it doesn't sound like your LFS told you the actual values of your water parameters. I can not stress how helpful this is.

The other day I noticed that my fish were not swimming correctly and by having the tests on hand I could quickly see what the problem was, and take steps to fix it. Taking your water to your LFS is not always an option, as problems tend to strike at the least opportune time.

The XP3 should be fine once you get it hooked up (I have one on a 46 gallon and love it), but I am a little unsure about your filtration right now. Is the powerhead hooked up to an undergravel filtration system. Otherwise it will just be moving water and not helping clean anything.

If you have ammonia, then you are not cycled. I would pick up the test kits and download the free e-book on the left. I would also check out the thread on fishless cycling. Since you have fish in your tank already you cannot do this but it explains what you should see.

fishless cycling ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.])

[brian2452000]

Thanks for the reply.

I have a Tetra master test kit. The drops not the strips. I think Im good there. The only reason I took my water too the store to have it tested was thats how they offer you a refund fish by bringing in a water sample. Honestly, I think that they have no real clue whats going on, and seem like a couple of kids making 8 bucks an hour rather than fish experts.

The filter I have is a Top Fin 60. Its NOT hooked to a UGF. I have 2 filter cartridges in it that came with it, but thats it. The water doesnt seem dirty at all (no particles floating, not cloudy etc) but i guess that doesnt mean its clean.

[hungryhound]

Thanks for the reply.

I have a Tetra master test kit. The drops not the strips. I think Im good there. The only reason I took my water too the store to have it tested was thats how they offer you a refund fish by bringing in a water sample. Honestly, I think that they have no real clue whats going on, and seem like a couple of kids making 8 bucks an hour rather than fish experts.



Good. Do you know what all of your parameters were and are?
Ammonia?
nitirte?
Nitrate?

This will help us figure out your problem. (i say us as there are many more people who know more than me on this board)



The filter I have is a Top Fin 60. Its NOT hooked to a UGF. I have 2 filter cartridges in it that came with it, but thats it. The water doesnt seem dirty at all (no particles floating, not cloudy etc) but i guess that doesnt mean its clean.

In your first post you said powerhead? I am not familiar with the product you are talking about. Is it a powerhead or a powerfilter?

[brian2452000]

Well right now there is no ammonia....or at least a very tad, its hard to tell the shade of green on the kit, but its close to 0. Definitely way less than the .25 mark. Before the Oscars died when it spiked real high it reached almost 2.0 but I did 3 40% changes and that knocked it back down. But not before the fish died. The cavefish have been alive the whole time.

No nitrites, they have always been at 0. I've never detected any traces of nitrites in my tank.

The crappy test kit didnt come with a nitrate test, maybe i need to get one. I figured that with the nitrites being 0 I never made it that far to have any of those.

I suppose its a powerfilter rather than a powerhead. It doesnt run anything else. As I said, the water doesnt seem dirty or anything, but the gph on it is about a third of the XP3 and I read somewhere the more filtration the better.

[hungryhound]

Well right now there is no ammonia....or at least a very tad, its hard to tell the shade of green on the kit, but its close to 0. Definitely way less than the .25 mark. Before the Oscars died when it spiked real high it reached almost 2.0 but I did 3 40% changes and that knocked it back down. But not before the fish died. The cavefish have been alive the whole time.

No nitrites, they have always been at 0. I've never detected any traces of nitrites in my tank.

The crappy test kit didnt come with a nitrate test, maybe i need to get one. I figured that with the nitrites being 0 I never made it that far to have any of those.

I suppose its a powerfilter rather than a powerhead. It doesnt run anything else. As I said, the water doesnt seem dirty or anything, but the gph on it is about a third of the XP3 and I read somewhere the more filtration the better.

Well Ideally you want to see

Ammonia = 0ppm
nitrites = 0 ppm
nitrates < 20 ppm

Without a nitrate reading, there is no proof that you have any nitrate producing bacteria. Therefore it is hard to say if your tank is cycled.

Since you have ammonia now I think it is safe to assume that your tank is not cycled.

This seems strange as you would think that it would cycle in this time.

I have a couple of questions that deal with why it would not have cycled before.

In the six weeks prior to the Oscars.

1. Were you doing regular water changes? Doing frequent water changes while cycling will lengthen the time it takes to cycle.

2. Were you vacuming the tank while you were cycling?
The nitrifying bacteria tend to grow on your substrate and disturbing them while cycling can lead to an increased cycle time.

3. What is your water temperature? The rate of bacteria proliferation increasing exponentially as the water temperature gets warmer.
-------------------------
As for going forward. I would pick up a nitrate test kit. While not as harmful as nitrites and ammonia, it can still cause death to your fish, and it will allow you to better determine if your tank is cycled or not.

Once you get readings of 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites and a some nitrate readings, consistently for a couple of days. i would consider your tank cycled. And try to add the fish you wanted slowly.



The other thing that i just thought of was that maybe it was not the ammonia that killed your new fish. How long were the oscars floated, and did you add tank water into their bag after 20 to 30 minutes to allow them to get used to the difference in the water parameters in your tank vs your LFS. Could there be a drastic difference in pH between your water and the LFS. I doubt that this is your problem, but I am just throwing it out there.

[brian2452000]

I appreciate the help!!

1) I actually didnt change the water at the start while it was cycling. I wanted to leave it alone during the cycle. The first time the water was changed was when the ammonia spiked real high.

2) I never vacummed the tank during the cycle. It never seemed dirty, they gravel wasnt dirty. (I understand I need to do regular changes and cleanings, I just didnt yet cause the tank was cycling)

3) water temp is 78

I floated the Oscars in the bag for about an hour. 30 mins at first then I added a cup of tank water every 15 mins then scooped them in the tank.

[hungryhound]

I appreciate the help!!

1) I actually didnt change the water at the start while it was cycling. I wanted to leave it alone during the cycle. The first time the water was changed was when the ammonia spiked real high.

2) I never vacummed the tank during the cycle. It never seemed dirty, they gravel wasnt dirty. (I understand I need to do regular changes and cleanings, I just didnt yet cause the tank was cycling)

3) water temp is 78

I floated the Oscars in the bag for about an hour. 30 mins at first then I added a cup of tank water every 15 mins then scooped them in the tank.

It sounds like you did everything correctly. I am not sure why your tank had not cycled then. Maybe someone with more experience can help you. I wish you the best of luck in the future though, and will let you know if I think of anything.

[Chrona]

If you have always read 0 for nitrites, then there is something wrong. Do the LFS test results match yours? Did the fish ever seem to gasp for air during the cycling?

[brian2452000]

@Hound - Thanks for the advice. I tried to think of what I was doing wrong before I posted. I am stumped!!
If you have always read 0 for nitrites, then there is something wrong. Do the LFS test results match yours? Did the fish ever seem to gasp for air during the cycling?

Yes, they told me my water was fine when I brought it in. That reflected my readings from my test kit.

The Oscars definitely seemed like they were gasping for air. The Cavefish seemed unaffected by the water conditions the whole time.

Now that the oscars are dead, the cavefish seem fine, the ammonia levels have dropped, but still no nitrites.

[Chrona]

@Hound - Thanks for the advice. I tried to think of what I was doing wrong before I posted. I am stumped!!


Yes, they told me my water was fine when I brought it in. That reflected my readings from my test kit.

The Oscars definitely seemed like they were gasping for air. The Cavefish seemed unaffected by the water conditions the whole time.

Now that the oscars are dead, the cavefish seem fine, the ammonia levels have dropped, but still no nitrites.

Take a sample to the LFS and see if your nitrates are increasing.

The gasping for air is generally a sign of nitrite poisoning in a cycling tank, but I think at this stage, the tank may be cycled for the most part. How much are you feeding?

[brian2452000]

I would feed them as much as they eat in about 10 mins. They are blind so it takes them a little longer to find the food LOL. I would feed them every other day. When my ammonia spiked, I didnt feed them for 3 days while I was doing the massive water changes.

[Chrona]

I would feed them as much as they eat in about 10 mins. They are blind so it takes them a little longer to find the food LOL. I would feed them every other day. When my ammonia spiked, I didnt feed them for 3 days while I was doing the massive water changes.

I'd say the tank is cycled then. Just double check that your nitrates are indeed increasing before anything else though.

[brian2452000]

Just an update.....

I got my Filstar XP3 setup now. I must say what a huge difference flitration makes!! My water tests fine now, and all my cavefish are looking good. They are getting color back, they have a ton of energy, their fins seem to be healing better now from the other fish nipping on them. It looks like everything is good now.

Maybe Ill go to the store and try to get another oscar and try that again