Oh God Help Me - I'm A Mass Murderer!

[soulmia]

OH GOD!!! :help:

I added my first batch of fish yesterday: 6 neon tetras, 6 hockey stick tetras and 4 corydoras (all approximately the same size)
2 of the neons died within the hour
I thought they hadn’t adjusted… and a lot of people said that sometimes some fish just don’t make the transition…. I have had a non-planted aquarium before and that one had a bubble curtain but the LFS told me that my filter had the option of attaching a small pipe which stuck out of the tank and this is where the tank got it’s oxygen. When I was setting up this tank, I didn’t put in a bubble curtain. But when my neon’s dies, I felt MAYBE they needed more air, so I put in a pipe and attached an air pump and then went to bed.
When I woke up this morning, 5 of the hockey sticks had died!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I’m convinced it’s the water but I have a huge problem – I have no way of measuring the PH or ammonia level of the water! We just don’t get these gadgets here! WHAT CAN I DO!!!???? I am just howling because I feel guilty of committing this mass murder!!!
For those who don’t know, I have a tank that measures 48”(L) X 12”(W) X 24”(H). My tank is planted and I’m not sure if you’d term my tank as heavily planted.

I JUST DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!! PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!

[Drumachine09]

Test your ammonia and nitrites/ates.

Did you cycle your tank?

[Chrona]

Do 50% water changes every other day for a week, then 50% water changes twice a week for the next week. Then wait another week. Do NOT touch the gravel or filter or anything during this time. After that, SLOWLY introduce fish (like 2-3 at a time). Did you acclimate them like I said?

[soulmia]

Do 50% water changes every other day for a week, then 50% water changes twice a week for the next week. Then wait another week. Do NOT touch the gravel or filter or anything during this time. After that, SLOWLY introduce fish (like 2-3 at a time). Did you acclimate them like I said?

Yes I did accimate them! I kept them in the bag for 20 minutes, then I added 1 jug of the aquarium water into the bag and waited 20 minutes. Then I added the fish by species (first the neons, then the corys and then the hockeys) into the tank.
I'll change 50% of the water now. I'll dechlorinate the fresh water, and then add it in. Then I'll repeat this on thursday (we're on tuesday here) and then saturday.
Then I'll change it on tuesday and then saturday again.... does this sound about right? Oh! God! I feel awful :(

[Chrona]

Yes I did accimate them! I kept them in the bag for 20 minutes, then I added 1 jug of the aquarium water into the bag and waited 20 minutes. Then I added the fish by species (first the neons, then the corys and then the hockeys) into the tank.
I'll change 50% of the water now. I'll dechlorinate the fresh water, and then add it in. Then I'll repeat this on thursday (we're on tuesday here) and then saturday.
Then I'll change it on tuesday and then saturday again.... does this sound about right? Oh! God! I feel awful :(

You should do float for 20 minutes, then add 1 cup (small cup) of tank water into the bag every 10 minutes for an hour. That will greatly decrease, if not get rid of new fish mortality. It sounds like it was an issue with either the ride home or the acclimation (or the store having weak/poor fish) because ammonia poisoning does not set in that quickly.

[Lady Hobbs]

Oh gez......nothing like starting off with a let down like that. With adding the fish just yesterday you shouldn't have any ammonia that's too nuts yet. It generally takes a few days to get ammonia high enough to be toxic.

With all the same species dead, I wonder if they could have been ill. Seems odd to me that only one species would have died on you.

Don't add anymore fish for now and let your tank cycle with what you have. Too bad you haven't a way to test the water. That would be an immense help, for sure.

What kind of substract do you have in your tank? Is it soil for planting or regular aquarium gravel?

Sorry, kid, you lost some of your fishies. Getting the tank going and your fish toughened up sometimes takes a toll on us, as well.

[soulmia]

It was the worst morning! I was just distraught!The death toll has settled at 11 as of now :-( All the cory's seem to be doing well and I have just one lone neon tetra swimming around now :(

Someone said that I should prolly add in a couple of zebra danios to help with sorting out the tank... should I do this already tomorrow?? I did a 50% water change today and will do one again day after tomorrow.

I have a coarse gravel, brownish red in colour and the LFS said it had laterite in it. Well when I was trying to get the dead fish out today, I ended up uprooting a couple of the plants and was surprised to see that they had already started growing roots and had a couple of new leaf buds that weren't there before... so I'm assuming the gravel is ok for the plants.... now if only my fishies would settle down!

Thanks for the concern... I was So upset...and after losing 9 since last night, I watched 2 more die today :(

Lets see what tomorrow brings.... (fingers crossed)

[Chrona]

It was the worst morning! I was just distraught!The death toll has settled at 11 as of now :-( All the cory's seem to be doing well and I have just one lone neon tetra swimming around now :(

Someone said that I should prolly add in a couple of zebra danios to help with sorting out the tank... should I do this already tomorrow?? I did a 50% water change today and will do one again day after tomorrow.

I have a coarse gravel, brownish red in colour and the LFS said it had laterite in it. Well when I was trying to get the dead fish out today, I ended up uprooting a couple of the plants and was surprised to see that they had already started growing roots and had a couple of new leaf buds that weren't there before... so I'm assuming the gravel is ok for the plants.... now if only my fishies would settle down!

Thanks for the concern... I was So upset...and after losing 9 since last night, I watched 2 more die today :(

Lets see what tomorrow brings.... (fingers crossed)

I think that substrate may actually be Seachem Flourite, heh (it's good stuff, what I use) Did the stuff have a lot of dust on it you had to wash off before adding to the tank?

As for the fish, if it's only been neon tetras so far, it could be neon tetra disease, which is incurable. Or just weak fish to start with. Neons have been inbred so much their genetics are awful. It doesn't sound like an acclimation issue either, since the cories probably would have kicked the bucket as well. At this point, I would just get a few (3-4) zebra danios (make sure they are very healthy - no dead fishes in the tank) to keep your cycle going. After a week, if you have no deaths, then add another 3-4 fish. Then every 2 weeks, you can add another 3-4 fish. Do try to get hardy ones however. Livebearers, danios, some varieties of tetras (like Buenos Aires Tetra) are all good choices.

[Lady Hobbs]

Zebra danios are a decent fish for cycling if you must use fish. I hate seeing any fish used, myself, but sometimes it's necessary. You can leave your dead fish in the water, as well, which will bring the ammonia up but I would try to find a place to put your remaining live fish. A plastic container with an airstone (air pump) or something that will give them oxygen or ask the store if you can return them until you've finished cycling. (And ask them for their dead fish.)

If you decide to leave the dead fish for cycling you won't have to do any water changes. With danio's you will have to do some but not as large or as often. Not having a test kit makes your situation complex. It's all guess work for you and I can't imagine trying to cycle without water testing.

The trick is to add no more fish than can cycle a tank without huge spikes. 5-6 is plenty to start a cycle in a 60 gallon. If they are dead fish, you can use many.

This link will explain how the nitrogen cycle works.
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Lady Hobbs]

Wow. How confusing is this? I say dead fish and Chrona says to get them out. LOLOLOL My suggestion at having dead fish is only if no live fish are being used.

[soulmia]

I think that substrate may actually be Seachem Flourite, heh (it's good stuff, what I use) Did the stuff have a lot of dust on it you had to wash off before adding to the tank?

YES!! It was bloody dusty. But the thing is that the LFS told me specifically NOT to wash it as the flourite would then be washed away and lose it's good properties!! Also, I googled Seachem Flourite and it seems to com in these packages... the one the LFS gave me was loose... that is the reason I couldn't tell you what substrate I had! I made a HUGE mistake by not washing the gravel right??! I KNEW it!!!!!

As for the fish, if it's only been neon tetras so far, it could be neon tetra disease, which is incurable. Or just weak fish to start with. Neons have been inbred so much their genetics are awful. It doesn't sound like an acclimation issue either, since the cories probably would have kicked the bucket as well. At this point, I would just get a few (3-4) zebra danios (make sure they are very healthy - no dead fishes in the tank) to keep your cycle going. After a week, if you have no deaths, then add another 3-4 fish. Then every 2 weeks, you can add another 3-4 fish. Do try to get hardy ones however. Livebearers, danios, some varieties of tetras (like Buenos Aires Tetra) are all good choices.

All my fish have died with the exception of the 4 corys and 1 neon tetra.
I am getting a LOT of conflicting advise and don't know what to do. There are other forum's I have subscribed to and someone there says not to add in any more fish right now..
Hobbs says I should leave the dead fish in or add in more dead fish...
and I thought my biggest problem was incorrect lighting!!!

God! My head is just spinning!

[Chrona]

Wait, I didn't say to get them out lol. You need to get a few more fish to get your cycle going. You have a tank heater right? About 3-5 watts per gallon of heating? Do the slow acclimation like I wrote above, and your 3-4 zebra danios will be just fine. The waste produced by 7 small fish in a 60g tank is minimal, but you need that little bit of ammonia to start off your cycle. Not sure about leaving the dead fish in there though, that may produce too much ammonia. Better to just take them out and introduce new, healthy fish. Make sure to feed sparingly during the next 3-4 weeks.

It's ok if you didn't wash the Flourite, you just need to do lots of water changes to get the dust out of the water column. I mean LOTS lol. I washed it for an hour and still had to do two 50% water changes to get it reasonably clear.

[soulmia]

Wait, I didn't say to get them out lol. You need to get a few more fish to get your cycle going. You have a tank heater right? About 3-5 watts per gallon of heating? Do the slow acclimation like I wrote above, and your 3-4 zebra danios will be just fine. The waste produced by 7 small fish in a 60g tank is minimal, but you need that little bit of ammonia to start off your cycle. Not sure about leaving the dead fish in there though, that may produce too much ammonia. Better to just take them out and introduce new, healthy fish. Make sure to feed sparingly during the next 3-4 weeks.

Ok I am copying some advise given to me on another forum - When I asked if I should add in fish, this is what I was told: That is simply not true. To start the cycle you need ammonia. Ammonia kills fish. You had fish die. Without tests to confirm it we really don't know but I would guess you have 1.0 - 2.0 ammonia which is what killed the fish. The cycle is not sped up by adding more ammonia, any will do. The bacteria you grow has to balance the number of fish you have. If you have 4 fish craping in the tank then you'll end up with enough bacteria to handle 4 fish. Take 2 fish out and the bacteria population will decline, add more fish and it will grow. Add too many fish at a time, and you'll get a spike of ammonia and nitrite until the bacteria can catch up.

But as long as you have a source of ammonia (rotting food or fish waste in the tank) you'll slowly grow the bacteria.
So what do you say to this??

It's ok if you didn't wash the Flourite, you just need to do lots of water changes to get the dust out of the water column. I mean LOTS lol. I washed it for an hour and still had to do two 50% water changes to get it reasonably clear.

Ok, my "flourite" was dusty but not THAT dusty...When I put in the plants and filled the tank, everything was cloudy. It stayed relatively cloudy all evening. When I woke up the next morning, the tank was MUCH clearer and by the evening (24 hours) it was crystal clear! Even this morning, when I was doing the water change, a few plants got loose and I had to move the driftwood and rocks as I was looking for the dead fish... there was dust again but in 10 minutes, it was clear again.

[soulmia]

My baby made it!!!!
My little neon made it through the night!

I was so anxious that I just refused to sleep! I think exhaustion from all the crying took over and I basically passed out in front of the tank... woke up with a start this morning and was frantically looking for my little one... (the cory's are fine - they're swimming like crazy and eating everything in sight!) and I couldn't find it! I'm telling you, short of jumping into the tank, I did everything!
And then suddenly, just as the morning sun peeped out, so did "Samson" - that's what I've called the strong little fella
He popped right up to the glass and stayed there looking at me for the longest time... must have thought I was weird coz I was laughing, crying and clapping!!

Do you think doing another water change today be pushing it? I am just so happy he’s alive that I want to do anything and everything to sort this out!

:1luvu: - that's from Samson to both Hobbs and Chrona :thumbs2:

[Lady Hobbs]

You probably saved his life by changing out some water yesterday. This would have been prevented had you started with a few fish as the ammonia levels wouldn't have climbed so much so fast. With most of your fish now gone, you can probably cut back on the water changes to 25% every other day. The ammonia eating bacteria doesn't take too long to produce but the nitrite bacteria takes long and this might take 2 weeks (sometimes longer) to get a cycle finished.

Without a reading all you can go by is guesswork so you have a disadvantage. I think you should check with where you bought your fish. Surely they must have a water testing kit of some kind.

[soulmia]

Hey Hobbs : You're wrong. I didn't save his life. You and Chrona did.:11: I was the mass murderer remember?? :41:
I did ask my aquarium guy to get me a water testing kit - no one ( and I visited 6 shops) had one!!!! They just get fish and then either export them to other cities or then sell them locally so they don't get into all the testing stuff!!! Ebay in India is horrid! But I'll do some research on some sites in Thailand and Singapore... hopefully they'll ship!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. I don't know what today and the days to come will bring for Samson - but you guys helped me through this and for that - thanks (HUGE hug):luxlove:

[soulmia]

coz... my neon's Stayin' Alive!!:19:

I'm telling you - I have never prayed so much in my life!!! ! changes 25% water today.
Tomorrow will be 50%... and will continue this for a week.... hoefully I can add in 2 - 4 fish on Monday... but only if all's well.....

The cory's are fine - chompin' away at the gravel and driftwood and the neon's zipping between the leaves.... oh I could just kiss it - I'm so relieved!

[2manyfish]

IMO it was the acclimation that did the tetras in, not neon tetra disease which takes a long time to show up. Not ammonia, the tank is big, the fish load is fairly small and there are at least some live plants present. No, I think it was the acclimation.
You have the bag with the fish in there, inside the tank and maybe you have a clip on the end of the bag or you're using the tank hood to keep the bag in place. When adding water from the tank to the bag you should be doing this by incriments of 2 tablespoons or so, not jugs or cups!! Small amounts of water at 10 to 15 minute intervals. This should last for an hour. Net the fish out and discard the water in the bag. Or you could use the drip method where the fish and the store water are put into a clean bucket. An air tube is run from the main tank down into the bucket. Some people use a valve, some people tie a knot in the tubing. The point is to make the tubing drip one drop of water at a time. When the bucket is full, it is safe to net the fish out and discard the water.
Tetras are very sensitive fish and must be acclimated carefully. Another good idea is to keep the tank lights off while acclimating and for the remainder of the day too!

BTW, always, always remove dead fish from a tank. Don't use them to cycle any tank with as they often carry parasites (internal) which could survive long enough to infect any new fish you add. If you are cycling a tank you can always use a piece of raw shrimp instead. Not that shrimp can't carry parasites but they are not able to transfer to fish.
HTH

[Lady Hobbs]

Sounded good to me too until I read 6 hockey stick tetra's, 5 neons and 3 corys. That's almost too many to die within 24 hours too only be considering acclimation issues.

[soulmia]

2ManyFish: I understand what you mean about acclimatisig the fish. Th thing is - I have kept fish before and have always acclimatizes them like the way I did - and they have never died on me like the way these ones did.

Having said that, I'm not saying that I disagree with you. Just because I have been doing this way of acclimatizing in the past 8 years and have been successful - doesn't make it right:ezpi_wink1:

But I have to agree with Hobbs... maybe the 2 tetras who died about 30 minutes after i let them into the tank died due to bad acclimatising - but what about the rest?

Firstly, I should NEVER have listened to my LFS and added in 16 new fish at one shot. Secondly, it became painfully clear to me that my tank was not cycled - and since I don't have a test kit available - I was shooting in the dark.

But now the fish seem ok... will do another 50% water change today... and continue this for a week... crossing my fingers.

Thanks for writing in - truly appreciate the help I get from you guys.

Hobbs: where are you!!??? I start panicing when I see that you and Chrona are offline hahhahah actually my fish start panicing when they see you offline :hmm3grin2orange:

[Lady Hobbs]

I seldom acclimate my fish more than a few minutes. Sometimes not at all! I figure if the water they are in at the store is 78 and I drive home in 20 minutes and return them to water 78 degrees, what's the point? I think leaving them in a bag and continually messing with them has to be stressful than turning them loose and shutting the light off. If I suffered from fish loss I would change my routine but it's always worked for me and I suffer no loss of fish. I can't think back to even one that's not made it.

When I do acclimate (and that's generally only in the winter months) I put some tank water in a pail, pour the fish and his water in the pail and let it sit for 15 minutes. Net the fish and put him in the tank.

[soulmia]

Hobbs: My LFS (the new one I discovered) is about a 10 minute drive. But no fish shops I have been to in Bangalore have any form of thermometers in the tanks... they sell thermometers but they don't put them in their own tanks... like I said, fish keeping is not an age old hobby this part of the country... so I have no idea what temperature they keep their fish in.... I'd rather not take the chance...

I did do a 50% water change today and the fish seem happy enough now but I'll keep doing this till saturday... then 30% on alternate days for another week - then I'll add in 2 - 4 fish - dos this sound about right?

Did you read my post : Brown girls in the ring?? Please do - what is that in my tank???? Also, when I was doing the water change today, I noticed that some of the rocks and the air pipe that is attached to my bubble maker was a little slimy ... is this normal? Some of my leaves were yellowing but most of them were looking very healthy.... also, my red ludwigias are growing roots from the top and sides - is this normal??!!

[Lady Hobbs]

If you could see how crummy my plants look, you'd be asking no advice on yours. LOL Mine haven't had decent lighting in the month they've been in the tank along with getting ripped back out 10 times either by my featherfin, me or due to algae and having to clean them up and putting them thru a change in substract.

OK...I will embarrass myself and show you a picture. This is the tank that finished cycling yesterday and already two angels are fighting over who is the alpha. Plants are sick, sick, sick.

If you are seeing new growth on yours, I would consider it a good sign.

[Chrona]

I seldom acclimate my fish more than a few minutes. Sometimes not at all! I figure if the water they are in at the store is 78 and I drive home in 20 minutes and return them to water 78 degrees, what's the point? I think leaving them in a bag and continually messing with them has to be stressful than turning them loose and shutting the light off. If I suffered from fish loss I would change my routine but it's always worked for me and I suffer no loss of fish. I can't think back to even one that's not made it.

When I do acclimate (and that's generally only in the winter months) I put some tank water in a pail, pour the fish and his water in the pail and let it sit for 15 minutes. Net the fish and put him in the tank.

It's not always the temperature that does them in , it's the differing total dissolved solids from the LFS water and your water, hence the need for the half cup/cup of water every 10 minutes thing. I lost about 2 batches of cardinal tetras before I started acclimating them for 2 hours. No loss since.

[Chrona]

Hobbs: My LFS (the new one I discovered) is about a 10 minute drive. But no fish shops I have been to in Bangalore have any form of thermometers in the tanks... they sell thermometers but they don't put them in their own tanks... like I said, fish keeping is not an age old hobby this part of the country... so I have no idea what temperature they keep their fish in.... I'd rather not take the chance...

Just ask the manager. Most likely they have a good central heater in their central filtration system. My LFS doesn't have a thermometer in any of their tanks, simply because their heater has never failed in 20++ years of operation.

I did do a 50% water change today and the fish seem happy enough now but I'll keep doing this till saturday... then 30% on alternate days for another week - then I'll add in 2 - 4 fish - dos this sound about right?

Yep, perfect

Did you read my post : Brown girls in the ring?? Please do - what is that in my tank???? Also, when I was doing the water change today, I noticed that some of the rocks and the air pipe that is attached to my bubble maker was a little slimy ... is this normal? Some of my leaves were yellowing but most of them were looking very healthy.... also, my red ludwigias are growing roots from the top and sides - is this normal??!!

Npt sure what you mean by brown girls in the ring. Is the algae you see brown? Or what color is it? Bluish green? Normal Green? How much light total do you have no?

Stem plants can shoot roots from any node. Just trim off the ones you don't want until all the roots are going into the substrate.



Hope that helps

[Lady Hobbs]

It's not always the temperature that does them in , it's the differing total dissolved solids from the LFS water and your water, hence the need for the half cup/cup of water every 10 minutes thing. I lost about 2 batches of cardinal tetras before I started acclimating them for 2 hours. No loss since.

I figure they are stressed enough from the netting and chasing in the store, bouncing around in a bag barely big enough to move in and getting carted into the house. All I want is to get them out of that bag and in a dark tank stat. So far, it works for me and with no losses yet will continue as I do. If I had losses I would have to make some changes, obviously.

[soulmia]

Hobbs: For some reason I thought you had a heavily planted tank! :ezpi_wink1:
I can't believe that it's 23:20 and I'm actually sitting in bed wide awake and browsing the forums... As of this minute, I haven't slept for over 60 hours ! I usually have to have atleast 6-7 hours of sleep/day - to function normally - but after waking up on tuesday morning and seeing all those dead fish, I have just not slept! I have never, ever - in 9 years of keeping fish, ever had a situation like this!

Chrona: Where have you been??! My fish missed you!:hmm3grin2orange:
Chrona wrote: Just ask the manager. Most likely they have a good central heater in their central filtration system. My LFS doesn't have a thermometer in any of their tanks, simply because their heater has never failed in 20++ years of operation.

:hmm3grin2orange: Ok let me paint you a picture:
The attached picture will give you an indcation of what most fish shops look like in India. If you notice, they all have heaters in the tanks (this picture is from a shop in Delhi where it gets pretty cold) but the heaters are of such poor quality that you can't read the temperature! It's awful, I know.

The brown stuff in my tank seems to have gone after yesterday's 50% water change.... but icase it reappears, it was brown in colour, looked more dusty that slimy and was only on the filter and a couple plants... it looked like fine, small hair...

The roots that my plants are growing are from all over the place- even from the topmost leaf for example... I haven't cut them coz I felt I may kill the plant....

But, I must say, the tank looks nice now and the fish seem very happy :19: The little neon is swimming away and looks healthy! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU - bothe Hobs & Chrona

[Chrona]

lol, you'll do better with some sleep. I've made many a bad decisions in life (and with respect to my aquarium) because of lack of sleep

It sounds like fishkeeping is a budding industry in India, lol. Oh well, gotta work with what you have I guess. You could bring a thermometer to the LFS.

It will probably be back. If not, you have to tell me what you did because it took me over a week of water changes and scrubbing to get rid of mine lol

That's fine. The roots will suck up some nutrients from the water, even if they look a bit unsightly

Hobbs: For some reason I thought you had a heavily planted tank! :ezpi_wink1:
I can't believe that it's 23:20 and I'm actually sitting in bed wide awake and browsing the forums... As of this minute, I haven't slept for over 60 hours ! I usually have to have atleast 6-7 hours of sleep/day - to function normally - but after waking up on tuesday morning and seeing all those dead fish, I have just not slept! I have never, ever - in 9 years of keeping fish, ever had a situation like this!

Chrona: Where have you been??! My fish missed you!:hmm3grin2orange:
Chrona wrote: Just ask the manager. Most likely they have a good central heater in their central filtration system. My LFS doesn't have a thermometer in any of their tanks, simply because their heater has never failed in 20++ years of operation.

:hmm3grin2orange: Ok let me paint you a picture:
The attached picture will give you an indcation of what most fish shops look like in India. If you notice, they all have heaters in the tanks (this picture is from a shop in Delhi where it gets pretty cold) but the heaters are of such poor quality that you can't read the temperature! It's awful, I know.

The brown stuff in my tank seems to have gone after yesterday's 50% water change.... but icase it reappears, it was brown in colour, looked more dusty that slimy and was only on the filter and a couple plants... it looked like fine, small hair...

The roots that my plants are growing are from all over the place- even from the topmost leaf for example... I haven't cut them coz I felt I may kill the plant....

But, I must say, the tank looks nice now and the fish seem very happy :19: The little neon is swimming away and looks healthy! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU - bothe Hobs & Chrona

[2manyfish]

I figure they are stressed enough from the netting and chasing in the store, bouncing around in a bag barely big enough to move in and getting carted into the house. All I want is to get them out of that bag and in a dark tank stat. So far, it works for me and with no losses yet will continue as I do. If I had losses I would have to make some changes, obviously.

You are one of the very lucky!! I wouldn't even consider doing that, not only because of temperature changes but any kind of changes in pH. Too much of a shift can kill fish. And they don't necessarily die right on the spot. Often, that kind of stress will kill the fish within the first day or two.

Not trying to start anything, but I still believe it was the acclimation that killed off Soulmia's fish. 16 little slim bodied fish in a 55g are not going to build up enough ammonia to kill them off overnight. Especially with live plants in the tank. 2 died within 30 minutes, 5 dead the next morning and another 5 dead that same afternoon. All those fish dead within what, 24 hours??
One neon and 3 cories still alive.
And Soulmia, if you haven't kept tetras in a couple of years, you should know that they aren't as hardy as they used to be (not that they were ever all that hardy though!). Because of the way they are being bred on fish farms, they tend to be very delicate nowadays. Pretty much like guppies. Used to be that guppies could withstand just about anything. Now you got to treat them with kid gloves on!!

Lady Hobbs, nice tank!! I love angels, used to breed them years ago, are you planning on breeding any of yours?

[soulmia]

2 died within 30 minutes, 5 dead the next morning and another 5 dead that same afternoon. All those fish dead within what, 24 hours??
One neon and 3 cories still alive.
And Soulmia, if you haven't kept tetras in a couple of years, you should know that they aren't as hardy as they used to be (not that they were ever all that hardy though!). Because of the way they are being bred on fish farms, they tend to be very delicate nowadays. Pretty much like guppies. Used to be that guppies could withstand just about anything. Now you got to treat them with kid gloves on!!

Yes, all the fish died within 24 hours.But I have 4 corys (all survived) and one neon left.

Hopefully, I will start re-stocking my tank next week. What fish, other than neon tetras can I keep in my planted tank which are hardy? I don't think I will be able to handle another lot of fish dying!

[2manyfish]

Hardy fish that go well with plants....the first fish I'd get would be some more cories maybe another 4 of them. Then in two weeks start adding more fish. Don't add too many at once and allow time for your biological filter to grow before adding more (usually adding fish at two week time intervals is a good idea).
Other fish to consider:

platies (lots of varieties and colors to choose from - mix and match!)
gouramis (no large ones like kissing or giant gourami)
tetras can still be added and I would indeed add more neons so your remaining one is happy, but you can also add serpae, white tipped, black skirts, or lemon tetras
angels (if you can find a mated pair the better, otherwise up to 4 but be prepared to take fish back if you get a pair! A single fish is fine if you don't want them breeding)
hatchetfish
ottos (good for algae control)
bristlenose pleco (also for algae control)
rams
flying fox (if you can find the 'real' one that is!)
cherry barbs

Not all of these fish of course, better to understock your tank then to overstock it!!



Not fish but you might also want to consider:
apple snails
amano shrimp
ghost shrimp
wood shrimp


HTH

:thumb:

[soulmia]

Thanks for your mail! I will do exactly like you said - don't plan on adding fish ina hurry.
The fish I would love to have more of are neon tetras (just love their colours), lemon tetras, cherry barbs, MAYBE a few guppies ( I saw these GORGEOUS all gold ones). I like the idea of some more corys...
gouramis : I was thinking of a couple of dwarf gouramis.. is this ok? I was also told to keep a couple of black & albino widows - but I'm not so sure about this... I'm worried they'll chase the tetras....

If I keep the above fish, can I have a single male betta in this tank?

I just don't like platies... shrimps are hard to find here but I will try as I like the idea of some shrimps in the tank... although I'll pass on the snails...I've had a horrid snail infestation before...

I actually found an Indian fish lovers forum that I have subscribed to... hopefully people in a similar situation will be able to help me and give me tips on where to sourse stuff.....

But do write in and let me know what you advise....

[cocoa_pleco]

small zippy fish and some angels often like to eat bettas tails.

[Chrona]

Thanks for your mail! I will do exactly like you said - don't plan on adding fish ina hurry.
The fish I would love to have more of are neon tetras (just love their colours), lemon tetras, cherry barbs, MAYBE a few guppies ( I saw these GORGEOUS all gold ones). I like the idea of some more corys...
gouramis : I was thinking of a couple of dwarf gouramis.. is this ok? I was also told to keep a couple of black & albino widows - but I'm not so sure about this... I'm worried they'll chase the tetras....

If I keep the above fish, can I have a single male betta in this tank?

I just don't like platies... shrimps are hard to find here but I will try as I like the idea of some shrimps in the tank... although I'll pass on the snails...I've had a horrid snail infestation before...

I actually found an Indian fish lovers forum that I have subscribed to... hopefully people in a similar situation will be able to help me and give me tips on where to sourse stuff.....

But do write in and let me know what you advise....

A few dwarf gourami should be fine (most sold are male) but you don't want more than 3 or so because the males are aggressive towards each other.

[soulmia]

In the "bigger" fish category, I was thinking of 2 dwarf gouramis and maybe 2 or 4 black or albino widows... what do you think?

[2manyfish]

Black widows (aka black skirt tetras) are very hardy for tetras....long lived too.
I didn't even think to suggest any of the rainbows!! Duh!! The dwarf neon rainbows are excellent fish with marvelous colors!!! You could have danios too and rasboras....guppies are excellent choices too!

I would not add a male betta to the mix for three reasons. If you get the guppies, the betta will more than likely attack the male guppies. The whole tail thing gets them going. Second, many fish find the flowing fins of the male irresistable and he will end up ragged looking and prone to fin rot. And the third reason really is from my own personal experience but, I have never been able to keep a male betta with any other fish long term. I had one in a 55g heavily planted tank and he started killing neons in there. I had a different one in a 10g and this one went after neons too, and the betta I have now was originally in the 30g when I caught him and the large male angel battling it out!! So now my male betta lives alone in a 5g. Like I said this was just what happened to me but I don't think I will chance it again!!

[soulmia]

2manyfish: Thanks! I think I'll pass on the betta in the tank! Don't even want to chance it....
I think I'll go with 18 neon tetras, 12 lemon tetras, 12 hockey stick tetras, 2black & 2 albino widows

That should be enough I think...what do you say?

[Lady Hobbs]

Will also be having some young ones so why not cut back on that count some. Those plants will grow and take up space, as well. Why not 18 of the neon's but less of the others?

[soulmia]

Hey Hobbs: which of my fish will have youn ones??? I dropped the guppy idea as I was worried about young ones.....

do the neons, lemons and wodows have babies???????

[Lady Hobbs]

All of them probably. :) Not all tetra's get along famously and one species will not school with another species. I had white high finned that were awful and chased the black skirts constantly. I would try to get more of one or two species instead of so many different species of tetra's and maybe have some dwarf gouami's or another kind of fish.

Another fish that is very active and always on the move are danio's and rasbora's. I LOVE RASBORA'S. They are hardly as heck and school constantly and never bother any others.

Just read 2manyfish's post and see her and I agree with the danio's and rasbora's. :)

[soulmia]

Oh Good God!!!! I really know nothing!!!
I thought neons would not breed!!!! Sigh...... i'm giving up this hobby!:ezpi_wink1:
I heard from a local contact that the neons that we have in Bangalore are not a good idea right now as they are a bit weak and the transfer will kill them... so I plan on giving back the lone neon....and adding just rasboras, danios ad 2 pairs each of black & albino widows.... maybe a couple guppies ( :hmm3grin2orange: )

arggggghhhh ... I need to be institutionalised!

[Chrona]

Oh Good God!!!! I really know nothing!!!
I thought neons would not breed!!!! Sigh...... i'm giving up this hobby!:ezpi_wink1:
I heard from a local contact that the neons that we have in Bangalore are not a good idea right now as they are a bit weak and the transfer will kill them... so I plan on giving back the lone neon....and adding just rasboras, danios ad 2 pairs each of black & albino widows.... maybe a couple guppies ( :hmm3grin2orange: )

arggggghhhh ... I need to be institutionalised!

It's hard for the average hobbyist to breed neons, as almost all tetras require very specific conditions in terms of lighting, water parameters. As long as you have a medium size group of neons (6+) they will be happy.

It is very possible the neons you have there are weak. If breeders were not responsible enough to introduce new genetics every few generations, the inbreeding will have resulted in weak fish.

[Lady Hobbs]

I was just checking out cichilids thru Ebay and this is what the breeder writes regarding acclimating fish.

Helpful hints for unpacking your fish order:
Float bags until temperature is equal in the bag and the tank. Do not trickle water into the bag. This will change the pH and cause the nitrate and or ammonia levels to rise and become toxic to the fish possibly poisoning them right in the bag.

[Chrona]

I was just checking out cichilids thru Ebay and this is what the breeder writes regarding acclimating fish.

Helpful hints for unpacking your fish order:
Float bags until temperature is equal in the bag and the tank. Do not trickle water into the bag. This will change the pH and cause the nitrate and or ammonia levels to rise and become toxic to the fish possibly poisoning them right in the bag.

Well, he's just plain wrong lol. He probably doesn't breed cichlids, but rather imports them from overseas like the Aquadise guy. Or maybe he's just really clueless. I would really like to see where this nitrate and/or ammonia mysteriously comes from. It will change the pH obviously, if your LFS has different water than you, but that's the whole point of acclimation.

[Lady Hobbs]

I'm too tired to debate "every" issue. I just post information I read and toss it out there incase someone else may also want to read it. They will make their own decisions anyway.

[Chrona]

I'm too tired to debate "every" issue. I just post information I read and toss it out there incase someone else may also want to read it. They will make their own decisions anyway.

Sorry, didn't mean to start anything. It's just that it sounds like he is only telling the buyer to only acclimate for temperature, and not to put any tank water into the bag before dumping them in, which I know is not good for the fish.

On a side note, adding an airstone in the bag during acclimation is a bad idea because it raises the pH and makes the ammonia present in the bag more toxic. But that's only an airstone. You can't achieve the same effect by trickling water into the bag unless you are trickling it from like 5 feet up. And it doesn't effect nitrates at all.

[soulmia]

I think I'll stick with rasboras, widows, cherry barbs and the like...
I just can't handle more deaths...

and chrona - how the hell do you know so much???? and hobbs - i love you:luxlove:

[Lady Hobbs]

You settled on some nice fish. Ah......where did all the tetra's go? LOL

I love my black skirts. I've had 9 of them for ages. No deaths, no illnesses, no ick, nothing. They are such cute little guys to watch.