Fish died already - Answers please?

[Benny2k1]

Hello all, a fortnight ago i baught a new aquarium, with 8 fish, 5 minnows and 3 fantails,
I am pretty new to this as i have only kept little goldfish in little bowls when i was a lad,

The fish seemed to settle in fine and enjoy there surroundings, got into a feeding routine etc, then 2 days ago one of the Fantails (dave) started to get a little lethargic at the bottom of the tank!
He still came up to feed so we thaught we would give him a few days, however after 2 days he seemed to not even be interested in feeding!

We contacted the Pet store we purchased the fish from and they stated its common that fish may be stressed from the move and just need to settle in!?

However tonite Dave sadly passed away at the bottom of his tank, the only damage we could see was a few scales missing above his head!!

the other fish seem active healthy and in good condition!


Tank = 35 litres, filter, live plant, Gravel, left the water for a week before introducing the fish weekly doses of cycle and Aqua.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Drumachine09]

Sounds like ammonia poisoning. Did you cycle your tank?

[Benny2k1]

Yes, introduced Cycle with the reccomended doses weekly

Thanks for your reply

Ben

[Gelo_USA]

cycle only HELPS u to cycle ur tank if u only waited one week only adding cycle and aqua to ur tank ur tank is not cycled yet....
so I think its ammonia poisoning too...
buy the tests and let us knw the results.. get tests for ammonia, ph, nitrites, nitrates... and dnt worry cause I did the same mistake when I started.... and we are here to help...
keep doing frequent big water changes like every 3 days so ur other fish wont die but dont touch ur filter media and dont touch the gravel
get the tests, u will see tht ur ammonia is high.. after a while u will see a nitrite spike and after tht ur nitrates will start raising... when u have 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and u have nitrates raising it means ur tank is cycled...
read about cycling it will make it alot easier for u to understand whats going on and what has to happen

[xoolooxunny]

and also make sure that when you're doing a water change not to muss the gravel too much, the bacteria are making a new home there.

[kimmers318]

Not to mention that is quite a load for a 35litre tank, which is around 10 gallons. Those fantails get quite large and require (I believe) 30 gallons for 1 with 10 gallons for each thereafter. This was a very large load to begin an aquarium with, so you will most certainly see water issues as your tank cycles and tries to handle to load.

[Benny2k1]

Thank you for all your suggestions, and commentss heading off to pet shop on tues so will get a testing kit.

3 fantails n 5 minnows was reccomended to us for this tank.

[Rue]

Cycle (TM) is a product that contains nitrifying bacteria.

Whereas cycling your tank means to establish colonies of nitrifying bacteria in your tank.

Cycle (TM) may (or not) aid in the cycling process...but just adding it to the tank doesn't mean your tank has matured and contains established bacterial colonies.

The tank-size recommendations for goldfish vary...however, the least volume you need is 10g per fish.

[Benny2k1]

Looks like going to be needing to do alot more research,

Id feel bad if it was because of Poisoning
were doing what the pet shop advised :confused:


Thanks again

[Benny2k1]

Yesterday we did a 20% water change, Obviously Dave has left the tank and the fish were not fed today.


from what i have read this sounds like it will help at least till we can get test kit/products on tuesday correct?

[Lady Hobbs]

Sorry you lost all your fish but unfortunately this happens all the time. Stores don't bother to tell you your fish tank needs cycling. They assume when you're buying fish that it's been done and don't bother telling you otherwise. I suppose they'd be there all day explaining to people about the cycling process and not getting their work done but they could post signs around their stores if they don't want to take the time to explain it themselves.

In the Free E-book on the left you can read all about cycling or if you want a quick reference, check the Tips for Newbies in the Tank Setup thread. Read about fish before buying them, check the compatiblity charts to see how large each will get and if they will get along with others. Always read about the fish you intend to buy prior to buying.

[Chrona]

Yesterday we did a 20% water change, Obviously Dave has left the tank and the fish were not fed today.


from what i have read this sounds like it will help at least till we can get test kit/products on tuesday correct?

Do a larger water change, like around 50% and do another one tomorrow. After you get the test kit, read my sticky in the general forum on how to treat ammonia/nitrite poisoning. While you are at the LFS actually, get a small baggy of zeolite (may be marked as Amrid) to put into your filter.

Cycle did not work for me. Logic would suggest as much, since it's not even refrigerated. Biospira on the other hand, works as stated, cycling a tank in 24-48 hours (40 hours in my case).

Unfortunately, you will come to learn that local fish stores are usually 75% bullsh-- (the 25% is the occasional good LFS

[Gelo_USA]

try biozyme its not as fast as biospira but its way cheaper and it doenst need to be refrigerated... it worked for me I cycled with no seeds in about a week with fish in

[Lady Hobbs]

Rushing my cycle right now myself before my angels spawn again. Day two for me and nitrites of .50. Hoping I can get it done in a week again. They do need to come out with another good product for a faster cycle. Glad you found one that worked for you quickly.

[Chrona]

Rushing my cycle right now myself before my angels spawn again. Day two for me and nitrites of .50. Hoping I can get it done in a week again. They do need to come out with another good product for a faster cycle. Glad you found one that worked for you quickly.

Biospira :)

[Benny2k1]

Thanks for all your messages of help

took the water to be tested today and as predicted the levels of amonia were "dangerously high" The person in the shop reccomended water changes as has been mentioned here, have purchased a testing kit to keep an eye on it, just done a 50% water change and will do another 1 on thursday.
Going to stick with Cycle as the petshop didnt have an alternative however if it does not come down sufficiently will order one of the reccomeneded products off the internet.

Least can keep an eye on them now!!

Thanks again!! you guys have probably saved 7 fishes lives :hmm3grin2orange:

[kimmers318]

You are on the right track getting your test kit and doing some research. It is not your fault that the petstore told you this would be okay as they frequently do that sort of thing, and people frequently lose fish, then they have to come in and buy more fish. In the mean time, they buy all kinds of products at the store to try to deal with the issues of a new tank that they think might be killing their fish, cloudy water, algae, etc. All of this leads to more and more purchases, which is job security.
Most of the employees themselves have no clue anyway and are just doing what they were told to do, and even if they did, could you imagine the number of people they would have to try to explain this to every day, and how many of them would walk out the door deciding that it was too difficult? There goes the sale.

[Benny2k1]

Well its been a while now been doing regular water changes!!

the good news is have finally got the amonium levels down and it looks like the cycle has been completed !:19:

the bad news is we lost 1 of the white clouds :( not sure how to be honist 1 minute he was happily darting around the next he was dead :S.

now we have 4 white clouds 1 oranda and 1 fantail, we may be adding 2 more white clouds and another fantail next week, now that the levels have been sorted

[Rue]

Yay!

Don't be a rush to add new fish though...even if the tank has cycled...it's not fully mature yet...adding new fish adds new levels of ammonia which the tank might not be able to handle quite yet...

When you do add fish, don't add too many at any one time...so the tank has time to adjust...

[Benny2k1]

Thanks Rue, Question about the White clouds, we had 5 but 1 died, do we need to add a few more as they like to school or will 4 be ok?!

Yeh on thinking about it it will probably be best to let the tank mature abit before adding more fish.

[Rue]

Four will be fine...

[2manyfish]

I would not be adding any more fantails to the tank. You are overstocked as it is. A 35 liter tank (approx. 9 US gallon tank) will not house the fish you already have for long. Fantails can get quite huge! Not only in length but in mass.
Unlike the fish stores, we want you to succeed! The best way to do that is to buy fish appropriate for your tank. You have a small tank, you need small fish. The white clouds are an excellent choice. If you were to take back the goldfish and trade them in for another 3 white clouds that would be a nicely stocked tank.
Good luck!! :thumb:

[Benny2k1]

Just been to the local pet store for some bird seed and they were most apologetic about our loss and offered us a replacement, we going to leave it for now though as requested!


Current stock:

1 Fantail
1 Oranda
4 Mountain Minnows