New 60 Gallon, planted

[Gunzak]

I have a new 60 gallon planted tank and am considering the following fish population. Please help me make necessary additions or deletions. I want this to be successful for the fish first, my family second. These choices are based upon various compatibility charts.

4-6 Angels
6 zebra danios
6-8 black skirt tetras
4 rainbowfish
3 or 4 siamese algae eaters
4-6 various gouramis, blue, pearl, gold, etc.

Thanks in advance for input!

[rich311k]

That would be a tank full of fish. I would do the rainbow fish, one angel and a trio of pearl gouramis. The tetras and danios are fine. Get some 6-8 corys for activity on the bootm.

[Gunzak]

Thanks for the suggestions. If I wanted to stock more angels, say 4 or so, how should the other populations look?

[Garrett]

Well, the issue you're going to run into is that angels are territorial little buggers and there's probably not room for four to carve out their own little niches. If you could get yourself a paired male/female, you'd probably be okay, but if you, say, got four males, you'd probably be down to one or two in short order.

[Lady Hobbs]

They're called angels because of their shape, not their disposition. Angels are great if you have a mated pair in a tank. Not so great if they are not mates and they are impossible to sex when purchased. I'd also stick with one, possibly a large school of neon rainbows, or a large school of tetra's.

I'd also get rasbora instead of danio's and a couple bristlenose cats instead of those algae eaters.

The gourami's you mentioned are the more aggressive type, the blue (3-spot) and gold. I would stick with the pearls if you want a gourami.

But I would cycle the tank first before thinking of any fish.

[Gunzak]

They're called angels because of their shape, not their disposition. Angels are great if you have a mated pair in a tank. Not so great if they are not mates and they are impossible to sex when purchased. I'd also stick with one, possibly a large school of neon rainbows, or a large school of tetra's.

I'd also get rasbora instead of danio's and a couple bristlenose cats instead of those algae eaters.

The gourami's you mentioned are the more aggressive type, the blue (3-spot) and gold. I would stick with the pearls if you want a gourami.

But I would cycle the tank first before thinking of any fish.

The tank is now fully cycled with 2 BNP, 5 glowlight tetras, two cory's and a german blue ram. I'm finding that the pleco's are sucking the green off the swords and have uprooted some not-yet-established plants. Thinking of oto's to replace them. I also want to add a powder blue gourami, but not sure how it will get along with the ram. not adding any more fish in the immediate future until my plants take off better. I'm injecting CO2 with the small hagen system (yeist with the ladder diffuser) and dosing flourish excel once a day. Lights are T5 6700k x 4. Were on for 12 hours a day, but cutting back to 8 due to algae issues.

Accepting any suggestions that would make this a successful tank for more rams in the future, and possibly some breeding.

[jaysee]

Accepting any suggestions that would make this a successful tank for more rams in the future, and possibly some breeding.

What is your level of experience with fishkeeping?

[Lab_Rat]

The tank is now fully cycled with 2 BNP, 5 glowlight tetras, two cory's and a german blue ram. I'm finding that the pleco's are sucking the green off the swords and have uprooted some not-yet-established plants. Thinking of oto's to replace them. I also want to add a powder blue gourami, but not sure how it will get along with the ram. not adding any more fish in the immediate future until my plants take off better. I'm injecting CO2 with the small hagen system (yeist with the ladder diffuser) and dosing flourish excel once a day. Lights are T5 6700k x 4. Were on for 12 hours a day, but cutting back to 8 due to algae issues.

Accepting any suggestions that would make this a successful tank for more rams in the future, and possibly some breeding.

You may need to dose nitrogen if your nitrates are low (less than 10ppm) to get the plants to take off growth wise. A powder blue gourami should be fine with rams, I've kept several species of gouramis with both GBR and bolivians without issue. For breeding, you'll want a low pH and low hardness.

[Gunzak]

You may need to dose nitrogen if your nitrates are low (less than 10ppm) to get the plants to take off growth wise. A powder blue gourami should be fine with rams, I've kept several species of gouramis with both GBR and bolivians without issue. For breeding, you'll want a low pH and low hardness.

Good call.. My nitrates are below 10. How would I dose nitrogen, and will it feed algae as well?

My ph is just above 7.2, and my hardness is around 25 (as shown on test strips). I use tap water that is softened by a conventional whole house water softener (the kind you add salt to). I have RO water available, but have avoided using it until I get some good advice on reliable ph buffering.

It's been interesting to see the ram socialize with the corys since they are close to the same size. I thought about getting the bolivian at the lfs, but it's at least half again larger than the german blue. I didn't want the bolivian to intimidate him.

[Lab_Rat]

To dose nitrogen you can either use fertilizers (commercially prepared, like Seachem's Nitrogen or dry ferts) or you can increase the bioload of the tank. More fish means more nitrogenous waste produced = more plant food. Too low of nitrogen can cause algae problems. With a planted tank it's all about proper balance among lighting, fertilizers, and CO2. I suggest reading the article SWAddict wrote on a balanced planted tank. He breaks it down quite well.

[Gunzak]

What is your level of experience with fishkeeping?

The 60 gallon has been running for about 2 months. I also have a 12 gallon that I have managed for 5 months before that.

[jaysee]

The 60 gallon has been running for about 2 months. I also have a 12 gallon that I have managed for 5 months before that.

I'm sorry if this comes off as rude - I don't mean it to - but rams can be very hard to keep, especially for beginners as there tends to be more variances in water quality, and breeding them ought not to be on your to-do list for a while. Of course I don't know you, and I don't know how much independant research you've done and I don't know how successful you've been with your tank. What I do know is there is a lot to the hobby, and time spent focusing on the basics will provide a strong foundation for later when you want to branch out into more difficult endeavours.

[Lab_Rat]

I'm sorry if this comes off as rude - I don't mean it to - but rams can be very hard to keep, especially for beginners as there tends to be more variances in water quality, and breeding them ought not to be on your to-do list for a while. Of course I don't know you, and I don't know how much independant research you've done and I don't know how successful you've been with your tank. What I do know is there is a lot to the hobby, and time spent focusing on the basics will provide a strong foundation for later when you want to branch out into more difficult endeavours.

Jaysee makes a good point, but while I wholeheartedly agree that rams are not beginner fish at all, the OP already has a ram in the tank. IMO, the best plan is to increase the cory numbers first, then add whatever schooling fish, then once the tank is mature and stable, additional rams may be a consideration depending on how well the tank has been running. This time frame is likely 6 months or so from now, by then the OP will have over a year of fishkeeping under his belt. The rams should be the last fish added. Bolivians tend to be a good bit hardier than the GBR. I've not kept the two species in the same tank so I can't say first hand how they would get along.

[rich311k]

I think that LR has given you some good advice. In a 60 gallon tank there should be plenty of room for Bolivians and GBRs to live together.

[Gunzak]

I'm sorry if this comes off as rude - I don't mean it to - but rams can be very hard to keep, especially for beginners as there tends to be more variances in water quality, and breeding them ought not to be on your to-do list for a while. Of course I don't know you, and I don't know how much independant research you've done and I don't know how successful you've been with your tank. What I do know is there is a lot to the hobby, and time spent focusing on the basics will provide a strong foundation for later when you want to branch out into more difficult endeavours.

I appreciate your words, and I don't consider them as being rude at all. I can be obsessive to a fault when it comes to these endeavors, and I assure you that I certainly consider the fish, irrespective of cost. A 99 cent zebra danio merits the same care and consideration as the $13 ram. Knowing the caliber of care that the ram requires causes me to take parameters far less for granted, which may be the tendency with hardier fish. I feel I strive to create an even better environment for the ram's tank mates as well. Breeding is certainly a long term goal, and not something to be concerned with now. I just want to create a condusive environment to such activity along the way.

I lost 2 fish in the first month of the 12 gallon because I didn't understand the nitro-cycle. None since then, and I am fanatic that it doesn't happen in the future.

Your point is well taken and I appreciate your concern.

[Gunzak]

Jaysee makes a good point, but while I wholeheartedly agree that rams are not beginner fish at all, the OP already has a ram in the tank. IMO, the best plan is to increase the cory numbers first, then add whatever schooling fish, then once the tank is mature and stable, additional rams may be a consideration depending on how well the tank has been running. This time frame is likely 6 months or so from now, by then the OP will have over a year of fishkeeping under his belt. The rams should be the last fish added. Bolivians tend to be a good bit hardier than the GBR. I've not kept the two species in the same tank so I can't say first hand how they would get along.

Thanks for more advise. With the present cory count at 2, I thought about adding 3 more and a school of rasbora het (6 maybe). I will upload a picture of the tank tonight if I can.

[jaysee]

If it were my tank I'd have 10 corys....5 will get lost in a 60.

[Lab_Rat]

With cories, the more the merrier. They really are quite social fish. I keep 8 in my 29g. The rasboras would be nice too.

[annageckos]

Try going for larger schools or 1 or 2(maybe 3) species of schooling fish IE. tetras, danios, rainbows, rasboras.... instead of lots of smaller schools. Fish will look nicer and be happier. If you want danios, try a school of 10-15 instead of 5 or 6. Also what kind of rainbow fish are you looking at? The range in size greatly and with temperment too.

[Gunzak]

Try going for larger schools or 1 or 2(maybe 3) species of schooling fish IE. tetras, danios, rainbows, rasboras.... instead of lots of smaller schools. Fish will look nicer and be happier. If you want danios, try a school of 10-15 instead of 5 or 6. Also what kind of rainbow fish are you looking at? The range in size greatly and with temperment too.

I'm reconsidering rainbows, and may go for a large school of neon tetras or increase the glowlite school I already have. I'm considering 2 inches to be the median size of the fish in this tank.

GBR Update:
The ram is going on day 7 and is doing really well. He's very curious, investigating while I do tank maintenance. He's been within 2 inches from my arm before, and doesn't seem stressed or startled a bit. I've noted that he responds while the other fish just react. He's also adjusted well with his tank mates. I've seen him pass on a morsel of food, leaving it for one of the much smaller tetras. The disposition of this little creature is remarkable, and he receives first consideration when adding to or changing anything in the tank.

[Lab_Rat]

A large school of tetras would look awesome. Glad to hear your ram is doing well, just keep the water quality excellent and warm and hopefully he'll continue to do well.