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dragoonwoman
11-13-2009, 02:49 PM
My shrimp are in transit to me right now, and may even arrive today.

The tank they're going into is planted, but I found the liquid fert I was using (Flourish) has copper in it. I have read copper is deadly to inverts.

Last night I drained the tank (95% w/c), refilled with declor-treated water and added carbon to the filter. Will this remove enough of the copper to keep my shrimp from dying??

:14:

(BTW - the filter, other than having carbon added, was untouched. There is nothing but plants in the tank right now.)

Lady Hobbs
11-13-2009, 02:51 PM
No kidding? There's lots and lots of people that use flourish. Guess we'll have to see what they have to say.

dragoonwoman
11-13-2009, 02:53 PM
Of course, if experienced people come back and say it's fine, it won't hurt the shrimp, I'll go back to using it.

This is my first invert attempt, and I want to do it right, so maybe I'm bordering on paranoid here. I just HATE the thought of watching them die!

VoidParadigm
11-13-2009, 03:06 PM
Copper is a definite no-no. *cringes* You'll really just have to find out when they get there if there is any copper left in the tank. :scry: It's so dangerous to them that most invertebrates won't even crawl/walk over a piece of copper wire. What will you be feeding them when they get there? Many fish foods actually have copper already in them, to help keep pests away.

Above is from my experience and research. Nyh.

Lady Hobbs
11-13-2009, 03:16 PM
I just copied this from the net.

Flourish contains:
Guaranteed Analysis
Total Nitrogen 0.07%
Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01%
Soluble Potash 0.37%
Calcium (Ca) 0.14%
Magnesium (Mg) 0.11%
Sulfur (S) 0.2773%
Boron (B) 0.009%
Chlorine (Cl) 1.15%
Cobalt (Co) 0.0004%
Copper (Cu) 0.0001%
Iron (Fe) 0.32%
Manganese (Mn) 0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Sodium (Na) 0.13%
Zinc (Zn) 0.0007%

Flourish Trace contains:
Boron (B) 0.0028%
Cobalt (Co) 0.00003%
Copper Cu) 0.0032%
0.0032% Water Soluble Copper (Cu)
Manganese (Mn) 0.0085%
0.0085% Water Soluble Manganese(Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0003%
Zinc (Zn) 0.0169%
0.0169% Water Soluble Zinc (Zn)
Rubidium (Rh) 0.000008%
Nickel (Ni) 0.000003%
Vanadium (V) 0.000002%


The trace has more cooper than the regular Flourish and it doesn't seem like it's enough to do any harm. I do know the Excel will kill them.

rich311k
11-13-2009, 03:25 PM
I know many people with planted shrimpm tanks that do a full EI dosing. The little copper in either of those products will not efffect your shrimp.

dragoonwoman
11-13-2009, 03:38 PM
Thanks, everyone. :22:

I'll be feeding Hikari Algae wafers, NLS flake food (Community), Spirilina pellets, dried kelp and zucchini. Not all at the same time, obviously!

Northernguy
11-13-2009, 03:50 PM
Sounds like a nice tank!
I hope you post some pics soon!thumbs2:

VoidParadigm
11-13-2009, 04:20 PM
Mm, yep, very low percent. Will probably turn out fine. I'd personally still do a lower dosage, just to make sure, but I'm known for my paranoia. Good luck! thumbs2: Keep us updated (Rawr, I want pictures!)

dragoonwoman
11-13-2009, 05:23 PM
There's "nobody" in them, just plants. Here's a "preview" anyway...

I also put fert "spikes" into the gravel, and those have NO copper in them. If the plants seem okay with just those, I'll omit the liquid ferts.

The vertical line on the right (and left if you look closely) are caused by the bend in the acrylic. It's a hex tank.

Northernguy
11-13-2009, 05:57 PM
thumbs2: Nice job!
I really like the tank!:19:

MonkeyPox
11-13-2009, 06:02 PM
Flourish is fine to use with inverts/shrimp.

dragoonwoman
11-13-2009, 06:03 PM
That's the third "redo" of it, and the best of the bunch.

Don't know about you, but I'll fiddle with rocks, wood and plants until the tank is "just so." It's a compulsion.

Northernguy
11-13-2009, 06:06 PM
That's the third "redo" of it, and the best of the bunch.

Don't know about you, but I'll fiddle with rocks, wood and plants until the tank is "just so." It's a compulsion.

I think I change something every water change!:hmm3grin2orange:

gabbyguppy
11-13-2009, 07:36 PM
Darling little tank. Love the aquascaping. Looks like a perfect shrimp habitat.

Karen

dragoonwoman
11-13-2009, 07:38 PM
Thanks very much! I do hope the new babies will like it! :1luvu:

Sarkazmo
11-13-2009, 09:19 PM
I guess it's already been answered but I'm going to put my two cents in.

I have over 45 Red Cherry Shrimp in a 10G, play sand substrate, heavily planted. I dose Excel 1ml a day. Once a week I dose 1ml of Flourish, Iron, and Trace. My shrimp are well.... flourishing... heh. I just noticed new babies today and with SEVERAL females berried up and more with saddles, I'm soon to be up to my eyeballs in RCS.

Shrimp's blood is based on COPPER. It's true that copper will kill them in high doses but shrimp NEED copper in their diets in order to build their blood cells. Just as we need IRON to build our's. Also, too much IRON will kill you.

Dietary copper and copper found in these products are not harmful to shrimp as they're in a different chemical state and will not poison them.

Sark

VoidParadigm
11-13-2009, 11:06 PM
Good to know in any case. Thanks for the heads up, Sark.

rookie
11-14-2009, 01:13 AM
so let me get this straight florish products are ok for shrimp. because i dose excel but i have only had my ghost shrimp for a week

dragoonwoman
11-16-2009, 01:54 PM
I'll go back to using Flourish.

I got a batch of 25 shrimp on Saturday, and as of this morning I have only a very few left (3 - 5). I drip-acclimated them for over an hour (water level quadrupled), made sure the pH in their water and the tank were the same, ammonia, nitrites were zero and nitrates were about 2. Still I had 80% mortality.

I am very unhappy about this, but I will leave the survivors alone for now, and if they seem okay, I'll get more shrimp. Will you be selling yours when you ARE "up to your eyeballs"?

Also - how often do you feed your shrimp? I know they pick at the wood and plants, but I don't have any fish in the tank with them so there isn't any "leftover" fish food for them to eat.

Sarkazmo
11-16-2009, 02:30 PM
Wow, that's REALLY unusual for RCS! I rarely ever lose one and never like that, that's for sure. My nitrates are quite a bit higher than yours and never had that happen. :(

I'm waiting to see what their numbers are going to be like but I'll more likely than not sell them.

I feed about once every three or four days. I throw in a little pile of New Life Spectrum pellets and they feast for several hours. NLS won't break down and cloud water for about two days so I don't have to worry about food causing issues.

Sark

dragoonwoman
11-16-2009, 02:48 PM
I have, so I will give them a few morsels tomorrow.

I'm racking my brain (such as it is) to figure out what happened. They all seemed lively and healthy Saturday when they hit the tank, in spite of the extra time in transit due to Veterans' Day.

I'm not even seeing bodies, just...very few shrimp. I added a second Hydor heater to the tank, because the temp seemed too low for comfort (about 70). It's up to 76 now. My house is old, and old houses mean COLD houses. Room temp is about 66.

If you read back through this thread, you'll see that I did a 95% w/c, under the misconception that the copper in Flourish would be harmful to the shrimp. Maybe that much new water cause an imbalance in the tank, which killed the shrimp. I'm just guessing here....

Maybe I should pick up a copper test; there may be copper pipes in this house and that would be enough to kill the shrimp. Too bad it doesn't harm the damned pond snails, which are "just fine, thank you" in the tank.

AAARGH! I HATE MYSTERIOUS DEATHS!! :scry:

Sarkazmo
11-16-2009, 03:02 PM
I've got like 45-50 in the tank now and see maybe 15 or so at the most at any one time. They hide very well. :) Put some food in one area on the bottom, wait an hour or so and I bet you have more than you think. :)

RCS can stand water all the way down to near freezing and survive. They won't breed and they'll have lost most of their colour but they'll make it.

Sark

dragoonwoman
11-16-2009, 04:59 PM
Thank you for the words of hope. I didn't know they hid so much!

I'll try putting in a piece of algae wafer, although the last time the snails were more interested it in than the shrimp.