The $12 idiot!

[Owen Stubbs]

I think most have gotten tired of my "Curious Chemistry" thread. Not suprising given the 1600+ views.

Anyway, I started with a "fishless cycle". Didn't go as planned. Not sure why. Heard about the product bio-spira, and how expensive it was, but a <$2 bottle of ammonia and a few weeks effort seemed like a good thing.

Bio-spira was totally unavailable at all my LFS - Petco, Petsmart, Petland, and a few independent shops.

Decided to pick up the phone this afternoon and exhaust every listing under "pets". Guess what. Found bio-spira at a place called, get this, "Dog Patch". Yup!!! A doggie store that actually has a more impressive aquarium arrangement than many of the LFS. Who would have guessed?!!

And their price for Bio-Spira, and avoiding the entire "cycle" (ie, add bio-spira, add fish, you are done!)??? $11.99 for enough to treat 30 gallons!

You gotta be kidding me!!! 12 bucks, and I could have stocked this tank 3 weeks ago!!! I'm an idiot! :ezpi_wink1:

[Drumachine09]

I think most have gotten tired of my "Curious Chemistry" thread. Not suprising given the 1600+ views.

Anyway, I started with a "fishless cycle". Didn't go as planned. Not sure why. Heard about the product bio-spira, and how expensive it was, but a <$2 bottle of ammonia and a few weeks effort seemed like a good thing.

Bio-spira was totally unavailable at all my LFS - Petco, Petsmart, Petland, and a few independent shops.

Decided to pick up the phone this afternoon and exhaust every listing under "pets". Guess what. Found bio-spira at a place called, get this, "Dog Patch". Yup!!! A doggie store that actually has a more impressive aquarium arrangement than many of the LFS. Who would have guessed?!!

And their price for Bio-Spira, and avoiding the entire "cycle" (ie, add bio-spira, add fish, you are done!)??? $11.99 for enough to treat 30 gallons!

You gotta be kidding me!!! 12 bucks, and I could have stocked this tank 3 weeks ago!!! I'm an idiot! :ezpi_wink1:


$12 idiot? I thought you were talking about CP!


I would still check your levels and stuff with biospira, because it is not instant cycling, merely a cycling aid.

[Lady Hobbs]

Biospira is an aid in cycling. It doesn't do it alone but it will be much faster. You still need to keep up with the ammonia until you get that cycled.

PS.....I hope they kept it refrigeratored?

[Chrona]

Biospira cycles the tank in 24-48 hours. Add fish right away. I could have sworn it was more than that though. Hmph, lol. Maybe it was just my LFS.

EDIT: I would say other products are a cycling "aid" but this stuff actually works. I helped a friend set up a tank and it cycled in about 40 hours. I think I did mention this product somewhere in that post though :P

[Owen Stubbs]

Their website instructs you to add the product, then add fish. Not surprising if it completes a cycle in 1-2 days. It would easily take that long before excess food or fish waste would contribute enough to be a problem prior to the bacteria taking hold.

You did mention it when I first started my curious chemistry thread. I just thought it was extremely expensive - and it certainly is more expensive than a $2 bottle of ammonia. However, considering its effectiveness, immediate results and total cost of only 10 bucks more than ammonia, I was an idiot for not investigating it further. Also could not believe I found it in a store that had more inventory relative to dogs and cats than fish! They do, however, swear by the stuff.

[Lady Hobbs]

Glad it worked so well for you. Problem is that it is not readily available everywhere. Sure wish they could make a product equally good that was. They'd sell a ton of it. You can order it online and it ships refrigeratored, tho. It was my thought that altho it quickens the cycle much faster that ammonia still had to be used (or fish) to make sure cycle completes totally but apparently this company feels the fish will be fine finishing it up on their own. So, I stand corrected.

I'm so anxious to give it a try myself. You did get it for a good price, tho. I see it advertised for $20.

[Chrona]

I guess it's not so bad for a 10g. If you have a 55g though, the amount needed could easily top 50-60 bucks.

[Lady Hobbs]

Oh gez....I didn't realize this was for a 10 gallon tank. I'll stick with my $1 bottle of ammonia.

[Owen Stubbs]

Hey guys - this is 12 bucks+tax, enough to treat 30 gallons. Enough to treat 90 gallons was $20+tax. You guys have helped me out plenty - I would be happy to pick some up for ya and take it to the post office if you cover the cost. Weather is cold enough here in the midwest where it should ship just fine for right now. What could postage be - a few bucks? There is no expiration date on the packages, but I was told it lasts for a long time refrigerated. One could even pick some up now (if that is true) and keep it in the fridge until needed. Might need to check with Marineland to see if there is some way to know how long this stuff lasts. It is packaged in a foil type sealed bag that does not appear to have any air in it.

[Chrona]

WOW, that's really cheap. I just stopped by the LFS today, and their prices were 25/40 (1oz/3oz)

Heck, even Dr Foster and Smith charges 20/30, not including the heavy shipping cost (air)

Not sure how well it would take to mail though. If it sat in a warm warehouse for a while....

[xoolooxunny]

My buddy's brother bought that stuff for his 75 gallon, and paid about 28 bucks for the thing. I guess it depends where it comes from and how much it costs to transport and what not. Anywho, instead of adding the fish, he added ammonia to make it 5ppm, then added the biospira. next morning, about 2ppm. Then he went out to the lfs that afternoon, and by the time he made his purchase, and was ready to put the fish in, it was down to .5ppm. Just a little over 24 hours and it was a complete cycle! Added the fish and did a water change the next day and all was good!

[Owen Stubbs]

WOW, that's really cheap. I just stopped by the LFS today, and their prices were 25/40 (1oz/3oz)

Heck, even Dr Foster and Smith charges 20/30, not including the heavy shipping cost (air)

Not sure how well it would take to mail though. If it sat in a warm warehouse for a while....

Those prices are double my local price, so no wonder you were reluctant to recommend it. At this time of year, I doubt it would be a problem to mail. Wrap it up in some styro or even newspaper, and it would be fine. Anyway, it was just an offer if anyone wanted it. Word is this stuff is da chit. Being able to get enough for 30g at 12 bucks makes the entire notion of ammonia seem ridiculous.

Again, all this IMHO. Just nice to know of an option.

[Chrona]

Those prices are double my local price, so no wonder you were reluctant to recommend it. At this time of year, I doubt it would be a problem to mail. Wrap it up in some styro or even newspaper, and it would be fine. Anyway, it was just an offer if anyone wanted it. Word is this stuff is da chit. Being able to get enough for 30g at 12 bucks makes the entire notion of ammonia seem ridiculous.

Again, all this IMHO. Just nice to know of an option.

Yeah, the price difference is pretty crazy. I knew the stuff was expensive around here, because my friend mentioned it briefly, and all the LFS around here charges about 50-100% more than DRFS (depending on sale items, etc), so I figured it was about 30 bucks for a 1oz bag and so on. I did not realize it varied so much by region though. Hm, I guess I should recommend people take a look at the LFS first before discounting Biospira lol. I would probably pay 12 bucks for instant cycling in a 30g. 30 bucks......eh

[crackatinny]

Is this stuff safe to use if fish are already in tank?

[Chrona]

Is this stuff safe to use if fish are already in tank?

Yes, it's just bacteria. You can use it in the event of giant spikes (I guess it would be economical if you had discus or something)

[crackatinny]

And does it require the carbon to be removed from filter.

[Chrona]

Nope, the bacteria will stick onto the carbon and everything in the filter. :)

[crackatinny]

Unreal, I finally found something down here that is way cheaper than US products

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

I got the stuff in the above link at my local fish shop, it cost me AU$5.50 for the small bottle (8gram), 2gram will treat 100-400 litres of water.

[Chrona]

AFAIK, Biospira is the only product that actually works. Unless those bottles are refrigerated, I'm going to say it will be much like Cycle(or any of the other cycling products that contain "millions" of dormant bacteria, which did nothing.

[crackatinny]

Thought it to good to be true LOL, I'll give it a shot anyway, I have some disolving and will do a partial water change this afternoon and add it.

[jeffs99dime]

yeah. chrona is correct. bio spira is the only thing that works--and it has to be refrigerated at the store and at your house/ business, etc

[Owen Stubbs]

Let me add my own perspective to this issue of dormant bacteria. I personally think they DO work. I just do not think they work well for cycling a brand new tank. I think their strength is in supplementing water during water changes and such. I have personally measured improved readings on nitrates and such when using products like Cycle. In other words, I think they seem to work well as a supplement, but cannot be relied upon as a sole source. Make sense?

[Chrona]

Well, the issue behind that statement is that you had so much seemingly random nitrate fluctuation that they could be attributed to anything :)

[Owen Stubbs]

Good point Chrona. Actually, my perspective was not just based on this particular experience, but former use of the Cycle product. Nice addition for water changes, and a decent "insurance policy", beyond that, I am not sure.

Perhaps I could have had as good results with a shot of spoiled milk!! hehehe

Hey - bottom line is "live and learn", right? I'm am just trying to follow through on this in the hopes that it helps someone else down the road!

I am also sure I have plenty of questions for you more experienced folks as I move forward. I hope to be able to contribute something back as my own personal experience continues to mature!

[crackatinny]

I will stick up for you on this subject so far Owen, (though I would never go against you).

I must admit, though it will go against me, I do not have the proper kits to measure water value's, but I am very observant of my animals, since adding this product, my water is clearing at a great rate, and my red devil who was beginning to sulk under a log, is very active tonight, I don't claim to be any sort of Dr dolittle or anything, but I feel if something is wrong, our pets will let us know pretty soon. And I checked this one 3 times during the night.

Having said this and tried it, I DO NOT RECOMMEND a fish cycle to anyone, unless 110% nesesary,

I might be celebrating before due cause here, but don't count out these products yet. I will keep posted about progress (with honesty)

[Leftyroc]

I have used Frtiz-Zyme Turbo-Start 700 [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]and it worked well.:thumb: It was $20 to treat 150 gallons and well worth it.
My wife was getting quite frustrated with 2 tanks in the middle of our living room so I switched from the fishless cycle to the fished cycle and used the Turbo-Start when I was at my water change. So far it has been very good, it is very similar to the Bio-spira, it has the active bacteria in it and needs to be refrigerated.
The first couple of days after I added the Turbo-start & my fish I watched the ammonia very close and by day I say the ammonia go down. This was while I was feeding them pretty heavily and the were messing up the tank pretty good to give the bacteria food. Now on day 5 the readings are all very good the ammonia is 0, the nirites are 0, and the nitrates are between 10 and 20 which is pretty good considering I have 6 fish in there. . I was very suprised.
I will try the fishless cycle again now on my 50 gal as I am setting it up again this weekend.thumbs2:

[Chrona]

Cool! Have not seen that product before. Looks like a cheaper alternative to Biospira (although it seems to take a few extra days)

[Lady Hobbs]

I have used Frtiz-Zyme Turbo-Start 700 [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]and it worked well.:thumb: It was $20 to treat 150 gallons and well worth it.
My wife was getting quite frustrated with 2 tanks in the middle of our living room so I switched from the fishless cycle to the fished cycle and used the Turbo-Start when I was at my water change. So far it has been very good, it is very similar to the Bio-spira, it has the active bacteria in it and needs to be refrigerated.
The first couple of days after I added the Turbo-start & my fish I watched the ammonia very close and by day I say the ammonia go down. This was while I was feeding them pretty heavily and the were messing up the tank pretty good to give the bacteria food. Now on day 5 the readings are all very good the ammonia is 0, the nirites are 0, and the nitrates are between 10 and 20 which is pretty good considering I have 6 fish in there. . I was very suprised.
I will try the fishless cycle again now on my 50 gal as I am setting it up again this weekend.thumbs2:

Great. Good to hear of another product out there that works well. I am cycling again today. *sigh

[Lady Hobbs]

Fr Foster and Smith carry bio spira and if I'm not mistaken, it ships free. $29 for 3 ounces which will do a larger tank.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Ships like live delivery......within 24 hours.

[Drumachine09]

Great. Good to hear of another product out there that works well. I am cycling again today. *sigh

Whats the deal? Are you perpetually cycling a tank? lol

[Chrona]

Fr Foster and Smith carry bio spira and if I'm not mistaken, it ships free. $29 for 3 ounces which will do a larger tank.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Ships like live delivery......within 24 hours.

"Please note: Special shipping costs apply when ordering BIO-Spira. The cost is $19.99 shipping and handling (1 day air) for as many BIO-Spira or frozen fish foods as you wish to order. This will be reflected in your shipping total upon checkout. Orders are shipped Monday through Thursday. Rates are for the 48 connecting states."

;)

[Lady Hobbs]

Good grief. Hand me that $1 bottle of ammonia!

[Owen Stubbs]

Went to the local Petland today and spoke wth their aquatics mgr. Gave him a list of things I purchased elsewhere (Flourite, pre-filter, certain Seachem products, certain test kits, and BIO-SPIRA). Told him I would have happily purchased there. These stores are franchises, so this is a family operation.

He took notes furiously. But also said he has had virtually no requests for the product. I then asked him a few questions. How many people come in here and are either buying a new tank AND fish, or have just set up a tank and now want fish? How many people come in with cloudy water a week or so after filling a new tank? A few more questions like that, then I explained that every single customer in these sitiuations is a bio-spira customer. It was like a light went off in his head! :hmm3grin2orange: