Finally upgraded to a 75 GL tank...have some questions

[JZ1276]

My 75 GL will be delivered Tuesday. I currently have one oscar in a 29 GL and have been meaning to upgrade for awhile now. Anyway, I have some questions...

- how do I go about taking it from the 29 GL to the 75 GL without killing it?

-is a 150 W heater good enough for a 75 GL tank?

-I've used air tubes and bubble walls in the past, and did not like either of them. I currently use an air pump with 2 ports and have been thinking about just getting a long air hose, running it from one port to the other, having it run along the bottom of the tank with suction cups, and poking holes in it with a safety pin. Will this work?

-Obviously, I will be getting more Oscars. Ive posted a pic of the Oscar I have now. I'd like to buy baby Oscars but realize I might not be able to because of the size of the Oscar I have now. Bascally, I am asking how big should the Oscars be that I add and how many?

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[cocoa_pleco]

You definitely have to cycle the 75g. If possible, switch over the gravel too. The heater rule is 5 watts/gallon, so for a 75g you need 375 watts, so a 75 W heater and a 300W heater, totaling 375

[Drumachine09]

Two oscars MAX, if you have monster filtration.

[cocoa_pleco]

2 with a good canister filter and a HOB

[Lady Hobbs]

Your oscar looks beautiful but will be very happy to have a larger tank for himself. As mentioned above, only two in a 75 gallon and there will be no quarantee that they will get along especially with different sizes. They should be introduced at about the same size/age.

Transfer your old filter media to the new tank to help with the cycle before adding your fish and even using the gravel will help a lot. If you want a different color gravel, put some from the old tank in a nylon stocking and toss it in the tank and even transfer over some decorations and wood even if for only the cyling process.

There's a stickie here in tank setup to tell you how to do a fishless cycle that should help you on your way.

Congrats on your new tank.

PS......I assume your heater would depend on how warm your home is kept as well. I have a 200 watt in my 55 gallon that keeps the tank at 80 but my house is never below 70 degrees, either.

[cocoa_pleco]

BTW, beautiful oscar. My regular black/red one is still alive ( i sold him, but am in touch with owners ), but my albino got in a fight and was killed

[Nautilus29]

hobbs is definatly right. When the temperature when up here the other day all of my tanks rose 2 degrees. I had to turn them all down a little bit. But then after about 2 days of 70s and 80s it dropped to below freezing again. so I had to turn them back up.

I hate this weather.

[JZ1276]

i will definietly do the gravel in the nylon stocking....
can anyone answer the question about the air hose?
also, i will take the emperor filter I use on my 29 gl and run it with the 75 gl to cycle. How long should i wait until i can put the oscar in the new tank?

[Lady Hobbs]

This will all depend on how fast your tank cycles. Using pure ammonia and adding enough to bring the reading up to 5. every day until you see nitrites, backing back off on the ammonia enough to bring it then to 3. it should take not much more than 10 days tops.

Just keep adding the ammonia daily and when you see the ammonia and nitrites both registering 0, you will then have high nitrates. Do a large water change and you're good to add your fish.

Do no water changes until the last one, clean no gravel or change the filter media.

Your method of an air hose will probably work but when your oscars get larger they will probably be tearing it up out of the gravel. There's a new type out now that is a long line, flexible and you can run it in any pattern you like around the tank and cover it all with gravel. It's rather cool.

Pure ammonia can be found in Dollar Stores and the mom and pop stores most of the time. The big stores hardly carry the pure ammonia anymore.

[genitor]

If you join the two outputs of the air pump together the back pressure will damage the diaphragm.

[JZ1276]

just bought the Fluval 404. Do I need any other filtration for the oscar i currently have + one more med size i plan on buying?

[Coler]

If you change over your filter media and some gravel and decor you absolutely do not need to do a fishless cycle on the new tank and can put your fish in the same day. Same bioload (presuming you have not bought the other one yet) with almost (so close it doesn't matter) the same bacterial levels. The bacterial colonies increase in size exponentially over 24 hours and this will make up any minor shortfall.

Just keep an even closer eye than normal on water parameters during the first few days to make sure everything transferred ok. Congrats on your great new tank :)

Even if you are adding the new O on the same day they would be much better off in the big tank with you keeping an eye on water parameters than in the 29 - aggression issues as they get used to each other.

[JZ1276]

If you change over your filter media and some gravel and decor you absolutely do not need to do a fishless cycle on the new tank and can put your fish in the same day. Same bioload (presuming you have not bought the other one yet) with almost (so close it doesn't matter) the same bacterial levels. The bacterial colonies increase in size exponentially over 24 hours and this will make up any minor shortfall.

Just keep an even closer eye than normal on water parameters during the first few days to make sure everything transferred ok. Congrats on your great new tank :)

Even if you are adding the new O on the same day they would be much better off in the big tank with you keeping an eye on water parameters than in the 29 - aggression issues as they get used to each other.

I'm defintely not going to put it in the same day. I was thinking i'd do this....
fill the tank up halfway. Take the Emperor filter out of the tank the Oscar is in now and put it in the 75 GL. Take some gravel from my current tank also, put it in a stocking like someone said earlier, and let it sit in there. Then, in one or two days, take all the water I have in my 29GL , put it all in the 75 GL, then add the Oscar. Will this work???

[Lady Hobbs]

Sounds like a plan to me. You'll be using all new gravel, I assume, and that has no bioload yet but in larger tanks you don't get those high ammonia readings like in small tanks. If you want to get it done really fast, pick up some biospira. It's about $20, only carried in fish stores, but does a very fast cycle.

Good luck and have fun. I really like your Oscar.

[JZ1276]

Sounds like a plan to me. You'll be using all new gravel, I assume, and that has no bioload yet but in larger tanks you don't get those high ammonia readings like in small tanks. If you want to get it done really fast, pick up some biospira. It's about $20, only carried in fish stores, but does a very fast cycle.

Good luck and have fun. I really like your Oscar.

Thank You!
Is the Fluval 404 the only filtration I need or should i also add the Emperor?

[Lady Hobbs]

You should also have a HOTB to clean up the other side of the tank as well. Aqua Tech has a 110 now that's supposed to be pretty good, too.

Oscars do put out the waste so watch your water parmeters while this tank is cycling. You don't want their ammonia getting up there too high...or the nitrites for that matter.

[JZ1276]

stupid question...whats an HOTB?

[Coler]

I was thinking i'd do this....
fill the tank up halfway. Take the Emperor filter out of the tank the Oscar is in now and put it in the 75 GL. Take some gravel from my current tank also, put it in a stocking like someone said earlier, and let it sit in there.

Nope - without a source of ammonia the bacteria will start to die off. Although some people think they will be ok for a week in tank water this is not so without a source of oxygen and a food source. They start to reduce after an hour according to some views. Also, be very careful to condition you water in the 75 - chlorine will kill the bacteria too as you probably know.

[/Quote] Then, in one or two days, take all the water I have in my 29GL , put it all in the 75 GL, then add the Oscar. Will this work???[/Quote]

No need for the water - the bacteria reside on surfaces in your tank not in the water column. The reason they like the filter media is because of huge surface area (all that sponge or whatever media) and constant source of food and oxygen.

So here's what I would do :

Set up 75, fill (conditioned water)...leave 1 - 2 days to make sure no leaks. Remember when setting up to leave space around it to work and for any equipment etc. Heat. Leave 29 as is.

When happy that no leaks, transfer filters, transfer decor, transfer as much gravel as absolutely possible (tights (overhere) pantyhose for USA are good). Add one very happy fish :)

After a week - 10 days take out the gravelhose.

Good luck.


edit - no such thing as a stupid question. HOTB or HOB is a Hang on Back filter. I'm not gonna advise on your filtration because I havn't kept O's. All I know is lots is good, more is better, unless your fish is pinned to the wall of the tank by the flow.

Also, you should always run two filters on a large tank, for back-up if nothing else, but also to prevent dead spots where the water is not being rotated. Two heaters too. Built in redundancy is good.

[JZ1276]

Here's a couple of pictures of the tank and how I've set it up so far. It's been filled now for 3 days and it's still pretty cloudy (don't know why). [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
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I plan on getting one more of the subermergable air pumps with the light to place on the opposite side. The guy I bought the tank from at the pet store gave me 4 bottles of this stuff pictured called TLC freshwater aquariums...states it removes nh3 and N02 , reduces fish loss and purifies water...also said theres no need to add ammonia (which i do not think is true).
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And BTW, I wasnt able to add the Emperor Biowheel filter I had on my 29GL tank because the glass canopy doesnt allow it to fit.
and as you can see, I still havent put the oscar in the tank until i take the water levels to get tested on Monday.

[JZ1276]

damn...i just noticed the water is unlevel by 1/4". I read something about this causing a "twist" and making the tank leak? Should I empty it out and try to level it?

[Coler]

Sure it's just a quarter inch ? That would be just about within bounds I think, but it wouldn't want to be any more.

[JZ1276]

yeah im positive , i measured it. I'm not even going to take any chances. I'm going to empty half of it out tonight and try to stick wood shims underneath. Hopefully, thatll work

[JZ1276]

I just emptied just about the entire tank, stuck 3 wood shims under the lower end, refilled, and its still a little off. Less than 1/4" so I guess Ill leave it. Still didnt add any fish because the PH and ammonia are high so Im using Cycle. Hopefully itll work.

[Coler]

Hope so too - but a lot of people think its snake oil.

Sorry missed your post - by now I hope things are up and running well :)

I was curious as to why you had ammonia though - no fish in there when this was so or am I wrong ?

Bringing your established filter media over would have kicked in a practically instant cycle. Anyway - hope all is well :)

[JZ1276]

Hope so too - but a lot of people think its snake oil.

Sorry missed your post - by now I hope things are up and running well :)

I was curious as to why you had ammonia though - no fish in there when this was so or am I wrong ?

Bringing your established filter media over would have kicked in a practically instant cycle. Anyway - hope all is well :)


i dont know how ammonia was in the tank either. I brought a sample to Petland and they said it was very high. then i tested it with my own kit and it was perfect...who knows...I was going to use the old filter media but i could not use the emperor I had because there was not enough room on the back of the tank with the glass canopy so I just put gravel in with a stocking. Everything is ok now, thanks

[Coler]

great !

I was asking about the ammonia because I too used the snake-oil Cycle when I set up my tank, together with some squeezings of mulm from the LFS. Now this should have resulted, if anything, in simply a small colony of bacteria from the mulm, but there was no Ammonia source.

What I found was that 2 days later I had sky high Ammonia, sky high Nitrite and some Nitrates. Huge PWC, added fish and no problems since (well, some little spikes when I increased the numbers but nothing that didn't settle down after a couple of days).

So I'm going to say that Cycle does something useful at the set-up stage what; I'm not quite sure.