Bettas vs. Dwarf Gouramis

[VoidParadigm]

I don't know where to post this. Betta forum? Gourami forum? General Aquarium? Meh. Mods, you decide. =P

Anyways, on to my questions.

Why do bettas and dwarf gouramis need vastly different tank sizes?

People say male bettas need a minimum of 2.5 gallons.
People say male dwarf gouramis need a minimum of 10 gallons.

Why is this when...?

Bettas (from my research) reach sizes of 2.5-4 inches.
BUT
Dwarf Gouramis (from my research) only reach sizes of 2-3 inches.

What about the fact that...?

Both male bettas and dwarf gouramis are very territorial.
Both male bettas and dwarf gouramis need water surface to take "breaths" of air.
(In my personal experience) both male bettas and dwarf gouramis eat the same amount.

Not to mention that...

Many dwarf gouramis are shy and like being hidden.
Many bettas like to swim around and show off.

Someone please explain the part that I'm missing that requires a +7.5 gallons for a dwarf gourami.

As a sidenote these questions have nothing to do with the betta tank I'm setting up.

[sheamurai]

The only guess I can come up with is that gourami's are better swimmers and may need the longer footprint. Just a guess, tho.
Personally, I don't really see a problem keeping a dwarf in a 5gal...I don't like tanks smaller than that, tho I realise that space can be an issue for people...

[VoidParadigm]

The only guess I can come up with is that gourami's are better swimmers and may need the longer footprint. Just a guess, tho.
Personally, I don't really see a problem keeping a dwarf in a 5gal...I don't like tanks smaller than that, tho I realise that space can be an issue for people...

All that does is make me repoint out the fact that dwarfs are shy while bettas like to swim around and show off in my experience. Thanks for the suggestion, and for the opinion on a dwarf's tank size (which I personally agree with, btw) but still. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Deleted User]

We all know, I'm not expert at this stuff yet!

But, I do have male bettas (6 of them) and dwarf gouramis (2 of them). All in different tanks.

My male bettas are actually much smaller than the dwarf gouramis, when you count just the body vs. also the long, flowing fins.

The betta's bodies are somewhat shorter. Haven't had them side by side -- different tanks, but by eyeballing, this is what I see.

Also, the bettas are not "tall" and the dwarf gouramis are about 3/4 as tall as they are long.

To my way of thinking, the dwarf gouramis, mass wise, are much larger fish than male bettas.

[VoidParadigm]

Fair enough. Thanks for the opinion Jill. :22:

[EddyC]

As Jill said, dwarf gouramis are larger than bettas when one considers the mass of the fish.

That said, I think the difference between the minimum tank sizes is more about water quality. Bettas can live in just about any kind of water (not that they should, but they can), whereas dwarf gouramis are much more finicky. It's easier to maintain higher water quality in a larger volume of water, so it stands to reason that a larger volume of water is more necessary for the gourami than the betta.

Just my thoughts.

[VoidParadigm]

Then either I am the best filtration expert in the world, or all my fish have been screwed up over the years. My dwarf gourami is the cleanest fish I've ever owned, even when I kept him in a too small tank when I first bought him and didn't know anything about him. And in that too small tank there were two in there, due to misinformation from the petstore.

Oh well. I suppose it would truly be simply a matter of opinion, anyways. Afterall I know that even on this site there are people who say Dwarfs need 10 gallons just to be by themselves, while others have successfully kept Dwarfs with a school of small fish as I am currently doing.

Thank ye all for the help. Even if it didn't really get me un-curious. :lol: :22:

[sheamurai]

I also have a ten gal that is stocked with a Dwarf Gourami and friends, and I have 16gal with a very small dwarf with even more friends...I didn't actually realise they were "supposed" to be alone in a 10gal. Everything I read on them said peaceful-community min-tank-size so I never thought they were supposed to be bach-ing it.
I'm not really a fan of keeping solo fish tanks, seems to me even bettas benefit from something else alive in the tank to interact with...I'd be excited to see a bird fly by if it was the only living thing I saw all day!

[VoidParadigm]

Apologies on the confusement. I didn't mean Dwarfs should always be alone, what I mean is that what most people have taught me is that if you want a Dwarf you need 10g for the Dwarf, then more gallonage for more fish.

Granted, I don't follow that at all, and a lot of people think every tank I've ever owned is overstocked.
However I come to AC for suggestions, not answers, same with every site or forum I research (on any topic.)

[thrakuarium]

What jill points out about the difference of body thickness would be the main reason why a gourami needs a larger tank to live in. As far as a gourami needing 10 gallons of space to himself within a community tank... sorry but never came across that info before. The only recommendations I make to customers where I work is when multiple gourami in one tank are involved. Now that is where the 10 (5 imo) gal of space per gourami could come into play. For example, by your info applied to multiple gourami, a 30 gallon tank could support 3 gourami plus the remainder of community fish a 30 gallon would accomodate.

[VoidParadigm]

Thank ye for the opinion.

[sheamurai]

Pray tell what a hibernation pool is? I get the gist that when your pond is shut down all the fish go into the hibernation pool, but do they truly hibernate?
Everyone I know with ponds either bring them back to the store, or bring them in to a tank (one person uses a laundry tub, sigh) that they don't maintain all winter because "goldfish are tough".

[Mr.Bluegill]

my male betta live in a 1 gallon fish bowl and live for 5 years

[Little Embers]

Pray tell what a hibernation pool is? I get the gist that when your pond is shut down all the fish go into the hibernation pool, but do they truly hibernate?
Everyone I know with ponds either bring them back to the store, or bring them in to a tank (one person uses a laundry tub, sigh) that they don't maintain all winter because "goldfish are tough".
I think you are in the wrong thread. :hmm3grin2orange: perhaps starting your own thread with that question is the way to go sheamurai. :11:

[sheamurai]

I suppose I could have started a new thread, but what I should have done was aim my question at Void specifically - Void started this thread and I was asking about the hibernation tank listed in the signature. I was only curious about the set up, but have no desire to start a whole new topic about it.

[Little Embers]

I suppose I could have started a new thread, but what I should have done was aim my question at Void specifically - he started this thread and I was asking about the hibernation tank he has listed in his signature.
It is his thread that is true, but it is not the topic at hand. taking a thread off topic and having it go in many directions by members answering completely different questions just makes the thread messy and confusing.

Sorry if I offended you and if VoidParadigm doesn't mind, then sorry I butted in!

[sheamurai]

Well, I'll keep in mind for the future to keep my off topic curiousity to myself, I'm new to forums.

[Little Embers]

Frankly, I think the 2.5 gallon theory should be thrown out the window....Bettas are just like any other fish; they need room to swim around and shouldn't be treated any differently. They are aggressive and territorial but so are many other fish.

I think it is the myth constantly being perpetuated that they live in puddles of water, don't need filters or a heater, that has defined what the minimum tank size recommended should be.

As others have already mentioned, the mass size between bettas and gouramis is different I believe. Bettas are quite small when you take away all their finnage. Also already mentioned, Bettas are poor/slow swimmers compared to Gouramis and a Betta expends a lot of energy just getting to the surface for air, which is why a smaller space is recommended, but the tank should be shallower and longer, and in nearly all cases, it isn't.

Bettas are usually kept as a solitary fish because of their aggressive temperament,(as well as being targets themselves to fin nippers) so people assume they will be fine in a small space, whereas gouramis are often kept with other fish or in a group therefore requiring more space between each fish. Gouramis can be shy, but that often depends on the tank mates, they aren't that shy if kept with smaller, peaceful fish (my gourami isn't shy at all).

It is true that bettas do like to swim around, but without a filter or heater (which in many cases they don't have); they will often conserve their energy by just sitting in a plant or whatever, so everyone assumes again that they are fine in a small space and are not active fish. They may not be as active as some, because it is harder and takes a lot of energy to swim with those long flowing fins, but the transformation when a betta is in a larger tank to what they are normally kept in is amazing.

You probably could keep a single dwarf gourami in a 5 gall. or even a 2.5 gall. but I wouldn't recommend it and I'm sure he wouldn't be happy/healthy....just as I wouldn't recommend a 2.5 gall. for a betta.

I know I probably haven't shed any light on your query and possibly ranted a bit, but these are just my thoughts (right or wrong). I do think all the myths surrounding the betta have a lot to do with how they are still being kept today. Those myths still seem to be going strong, but I can't say the same for the Betta.

[VoidParadigm]

Thank ye, Embers.

[The Curious]

Obviously I could be wrong...but I've bred bettas before and have always been intrigued by them. I think that EddyC was right when he said it had to do with water conditions and that bettas can handle worse water quality than a gourami. The swimming room issue, I believe, is the answer that you are looking for though. Before humans started breeding bettas to be the gorgeous fish they are today, bettas were a dirty greenish brown color with fins just big enough to keep them swimming. They pretty much only lived in rice paddies and mud puddles in Thailand and South Asia, which is probably why the species adapted to be so aggressive. They had to keep other bettas out of their puddle, cause it was only big enough for one fish's survival. So...in a nutshell...Bettas are adapted to only need a small amount of swimming room, while Gouramis just need more swimming room...as do most other fish of it's size.

Hop this helps

[VoidParadigm]

Thank ye Curious.

[AdrienDeLaChicago]

I have a dwarf gourami in a 10 gallon tank with a betta. That's roughly 6" of fish. I may get one more like a platy or a molly and then I'm done. Fish like more space. They were designed to swim.

Just like a person can live locked up in a closet so long as you feed them and keep everything clean but, of course, they would be MUCH happy with more freedom to move about.

[VoidParadigm]

Mrh-hm. Ty.