Help needed...

[Genirous]

Hello to everybody,
this is my first post and unfortunately includes the worst topic in the aquarium hobby...
I have JBL clay underneath a bead of thick sand... Driftwoods (mangroves) and few live plants are the rest...
The water parametres are:
pH:6,5-7...kH:3-4...gH:6-8...NO2:0...NO3:0...NH3/NH4:0
I use A.P.I. testy kits and the measurements are in three months time (for four moths I own my 400 litres Juwel Rio tank)...
The problem focuses to catfishes, where I began with 11 corydoras adolfoi and now I have 4.., and then I bought 20 corydoras rabauti and remained (so far) 8 of them...
The only other inhabitants are 8 pterophyllum altum in small size...
The catfishes died one by one without any signs, fin rots, marks from possible altum attack etc... As the days passed, I was used to find dead catfishes now and then...
The only remark to make, is that some catfishes were (some still are) pale in colours and with slight eye and abdomen swell...
Some fellow-hobbists here in Greece talked about too much stress, others for inner bacteria... Others for low nitrate concentrations on the sand...
The only good era without fish loss, was for about 2 weeks, where I made three 50% water changes after using Esha 2000 medicine...
One idea that crossed my mind is the possibility of having the losses due to one big driftwood of mine! It displays green and white areas like algae and mould on its upper body, near the water surface...
PLEASE assist me, I don't know what to do for my little fishes...:help:

[Chrona]

How active are the cories? Do they eat well? Do you have any kind of fertilizer tabs for the plants that may be exposed?

[Genirous]

How active are the cories?

Some times they run left and right, others stay almost still in the front right corner and some others hide under driftwoods...


Do they eat well?

They eat just fine...


Do you have any kind of fertilizer tabs for the plants that may be exposed?

For a very few time I used Seachem Flourish excel and one other of Seachem's (I don't recall right now...) and Sera tabs for plant roots...

[kimmers318]

Okay, lets see if we can come up with some ideas here. I am unfamiliar with alot of the "wording" you are using but I will help as best I can.
Q about the driftwood, if it was picked up locally from a pond/stream it could be possible that it has some type of bacteria that is affecting your water. You should have done something to sterilize it before using it, unless you bought it at an aquarium store, even then I still treat, just not as aggressively as I would a "wild" piece of driftwood. I would also suggest you try to identify what kind of wood it is if it is "wild" as some woods have tars and other goopy stuff in them that can leak into your water and be harmful.
I gather your tank has been running for 4 months, with problems the last 3. Did you do anything to cycle the tank......either cycling with fish or fishless cycling? If you don't know what I am talking about chances are you cycled with the fish and the end result is the cycling process, which can take up to 6 weeks with fish has weakened them and ended in several deaths. The "good" era you had with no losses following 3 50% water changes is probably because you were diluting the toxins in the water and they were not suffering as they can. You give readings of 0-0-0 for your water parameters, first, nitrates are seldom 0 unless it is a heavily planted tank with largish water changes, so there may be an issue with either the testing kit or user error. Re-read directions, esp for the nitrate test. I know I made the mistake of not properly shaking/mixing between additions at first and was getting false readings.
I am taking a guess here and thinking you set up your tank, added fish, maybe a few days to a week later, did your weekly water changes as suggested in the book that probably came with your filter and over time notice you are losing fish regularly. Since the tank began to cycle once the fish were put in there, and you weren't aware of what might have been going on, you were doing your water changes and started testing water after the first month when it was suggested to you that it might be in the water parameters. Did you ever see readings for ammonia or nitrites? These are toxic to fish. Cory are fairly hardy fish in my opinion, but are not going to fair well with increased levels of toxins in the water.
If your tank seems to be leveling off now with no new losses you are probably going to be ok from here on out. But if my guess of those poor cories going thru the cycling process are correct you will probably still lose them alot sooner than if they hadn't of gone thru it.

[Genirous]

I am unfamiliar with alot of the "wording" you are using but I will help as best I can.

Sorry if my english are not very good, tell me the words and I will try to rephrase...


Q about the driftwood, if it was picked up locally from a pond/stream it could be possible that it has some type of bacteria that is affecting your water. You should have done something to sterilize it before using it, unless you bought it at an aquarium store, even then I still treat, just not as aggressively as I would a "wild" piece of driftwood. I would also suggest you try to identify what kind of wood it is if it is "wild" as some woods have tars and other goopy stuff in them that can leak into your water and be harmful.

The driftwoods are JBL Mangroves and I bought them from aquarium shops... The problem is that they are too big to fit in a pot or pan to boil them... Any suggestions on that???


I gather your tank has been running for 4 months, with problems the last 3. Did you do anything to cycle the tank......either cycling with fish or fishless cycling? If you don't know what I am talking about chances are you cycled with the fish and the end result is the cycling process, which can take up to 6 weeks with fish has weakened them and ended in several deaths. The "good" era you had with no losses following 3 50% water changes is probably because you were diluting the toxins in the water and they were not suffering as they can. You give readings of 0-0-0 for your water parameters, first, nitrates are seldom 0 unless it is a heavily planted tank with largish water changes, so there may be an issue with either the testing kit or user error. Re-read directions, esp for the nitrate test. I know I made the mistake of not properly shaking/mixing between additions at first and was getting false readings.

Sorry for not mentioning it, I cycled the tank for a month without fish, NO2 and No3 readings from 0 both went skyhigh and after that to zero again... Then I added only the altums and after a week the adolfois... The 0-0-0 readings are truely curious, but this is what I get... I had used also JBL sticks 1in5 with the A.P.I. tests... The nitrate test, I will try to confirm if it is good, with a friend of mine...Thanks!
The peculiar thing is that the fish losses are between corys and not altums...

[Chrona]

Sorry for not mentioning it, I cycled the tank for a month without fish, NO2 and No3 readings from 0 both went skyhigh and after that to zero again... Then I added only the altums and after a week the adolfois... The 0-0-0 readings are truely curious, but this is what I get... I had used also JBL sticks 1in5 with the A.P.I. tests... The nitrate test, I will try to confirm if it is good, with a friend of mine...Thanks!
The peculiar thing is that the fish losses are between corys and not altums...

That is strange, because altums are supposed to be fairly sensitive fish. Did you do a water change after the cycling? Nitrates (NO3) after cycling should be skyhigh, and stay that way for quite some while even with plants in the tank.

I think the altums may be terrorizing the cories at night, as they are hunters. I never saw any aggression from my angel towards by cardinal tetras during the day, but I checked at night a few times, and yep, was chasing them around. There weren't any nipped fins because the cardinals were faster, but it definitely stressed them.

[Nautilus291]

did you say you are using test strips or the liquid kind. The test strips are inaccurate and If your using them then you should go out and buy the liquid test kit.

And I think you mentioned using medication? Corys are sensative to medicines and that could be another issue.

[Lady Hobbs]

I have altums myself, 9 of them, and the fact you are losing corys and not the angels gives me thought that possibly they are nibbling on the fertilizer sticks. Just a guess of course but your water has to be in great condition or you would lose the angels first.

I, too, was concerned about the wood but if you bought it from a fish store then it has been processed but possibly you can put it in your kitchen sink and scrub the mold away from it. A very light solution of bleach will remove and kill the mold but let it rinse very, very well and then soak it in dechlorinated water for a day or so.

I seldom have nitrates either. I have very vigorous eaters in my tank between angels, silver dollars and clown loaches and they clean up the food very well. There is never a speck of anything laying on the bottom which helps. Just this week I did have a raise in nitrates and was very surprised as I've not shown any previous to this.

I wish you well and hope you can solve your problems but personally, I would remove the plant spikes and only use liquid fertilizers with those bottom feeders.


OOPS......sorry. I mis-spoke. I have scalares not altums. Altums are hard to get here in the US and very expensive when they are found.

[kimmers318]

Larger pieces of wood can be soaked in the bathtub.....I have been know to do that.
With fishless cycling you should have had plenty of bacteria to handle your load so it might be as Hobbs suggested then, the ferts?
The only thing I can figure as all seems well is that something is either in the water or the cory may not have been too strong to begin with as all was well following the 3 large water changes. It is very strange though that the cory are affected and noone else is. I am not sure if there are other things to test for so hopefully someone else will also have some suggestions.
Sorry I couldn't have helped more, it always sucks when we lose fish for no apparent reason.

[Genirous]

Did you do a water change after the cycling? Nitrates (NO3) after cycling should be skyhigh, and stay that way for quite some while even with plants in the tank.
I think the altums may be terrorizing the cories at night, as they are hunters.

I did not do a water change after cycling, because I measured water parametres twice a week and put my altums after nitrates went zero...
My corys have not any fin nips... But I will install a moonlight sonn, to be able to see about your info... Thanks Chrona!:ezpi_wink1:

[Genirous]

did you say you are using test strips or the liquid kind.
Corys are sensative to medicines and that could be another issue.

Every Thursday I used "JBL test strips" and every Sunday "A.P.I. liquid tests"... Twice a week...
I used medicine "Esha 2000" after many fish losses... From that day i have only lost two rabauti...

[Genirous]

I have altums myself, 9 of them, and the fact you are losing corys and not the angels gives me thought that possibly they are nibbling on the fertilizer sticks.
I, too, was concerned about the wood but if you bought it from a fish store then it has been processed but possibly you can put it in your kitchen sink and scrub the mold away from it. A very light solution of bleach will remove and kill the mold but let it rinse very, very well and then soak it in dechlorinated water for a day or so.

I use "Sera florenette A" tabs for my echinodorous and from 6 roots, only two of them are not in at least 10cm depth... On the two specific bed areas I can say that I have seen a slight difference to the colour of sand (more dark)... But I began to put the tabs after at least one moth with fishes (and loses)... by the way aren't they supposed to be fish-friendly and harmless..?
Thans for the info to clean my driftwoods Lady Hobbs!:ezpi_wink1:

[Genirous]

With fishless cycling you should have had plenty of bacteria to handle your load so it might be as Hobbs suggested then, the ferts?
The only thing I can figure as all seems well is that something is either in the water or the cory may not have been too strong to begin with as all was well following the 3 large water changes. It is very strange though that the cory are affected and noone else is.

I bought adolfoi maybe 2 months before rabauti and from different aquarium shops... It is difficult both being from bad birth or badly raised...I think...
My thoughts go to my aquarium, my problem, because altums are ok...
I forgot to mention that all corys have very small wattle... Is it because they are still small in size..?
Maybe there is something to the bed or some kind of toxin in the water...
The only tests I don't have are for O2 and CO2... Is there any possibility to die from excesive CO2or less oxygen...?

[Chrona]

Are you injecting CO2 at all? Normal CO2 levels without injection is 3-4ppm, which is not a concern at all. O2 should not really be an issue unless it's a really tall, deep tank.

As long as none of the root tabs have been exposed from cories digging or whatever, you are fine. They are not all safe for fish though, I can tell you that. I have heard of many cases of bottom feeders dying after being around exposed root tabs like Seachem Flourish Tabs, because they do leech out heavy metals after all.

Do you use activated carbon in the filter btw?

[Lady Hobbs]

Larger pieces of wood can be soaked in the bathtub.....I have been know to do that.
With fishless cycling you should have had plenty of bacteria to handle your load so it might be as Hobbs suggested then, the ferts?
The only thing I can figure as all seems well is that something is either in the water or the cory may not have been too strong to begin with as all was well following the 3 large water changes. It is very strange though that the cory are affected and noone else is. I am not sure if there are other things to test for so hopefully someone else will also have some suggestions.
Sorry I couldn't have helped more, it always sucks when we lose fish for no apparent reason.

Oh yes. The lumber in the tub. LOL Been there-done that. I spent two weeks taking the wood out each morning for my shower and replacing it again when finished. And whenever anyone used my bathroom would let out a yell thinking I had some big, bad monster in the tub.

[Genirous]

Are you injecting CO2 at all? Normal CO2 levels without injection is 3-4ppm, which is not a concern at all. O2 should not really be an issue unless it's a really tall, deep tank.
As long as none of the root tabs have been exposed from cories digging or whatever, you are fine. They are not all safe for fish though, I can tell you that. I have heard of many cases of bottom feeders dying after being around exposed root tabs like Seachem Flourish Tabs, because they do leech out heavy metals after all.
Do you use activated carbon in the filter btw?

Is there a problem with the colour difference of the sand where the roots of echinodorous parviflorous "tropica" were..? Never heard of the tab issue..! :thumb:
No, I do not use CO2 and my tank is the Juwel Rio 400 (http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/rio.htm?cat=8)...
I do not have a big water surface disturbance though...
I used activated carbon only in the "good era", after the Esha 2000 therapy and the 3 50% water changes... Never again, either before or after...
One thing I did not mentioned... One day I found out that one of my corys had no eyes at all...!!! It lives very well ever since, eats well, moves well and being very active (of course it hits the glass and furniture) and has the darkest colour of all my rabauties...!! It happened only to one cory... What do you think about that..?
I am really worried with the whole situation...:help:

[Chrona]

Is there a problem with the colour difference of the sand where the roots of echinodorous parviflorous "tropica" were..? Never heard of the tab issue..! :thumb:
No, I do not use CO2 and my tank is the Juwel Rio 400 (http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/rio.htm?cat=8)...
I do not have a big water surface disturbance though...
I used activated carbon only in the "good era", after the Esha 2000 therapy and the 3 50% water changes... Never again, either before or after...
One thing I did not mentioned... One day I found out that one of my corys had no eyes at all...!!! It lives very well ever since, eats well, moves well and being very active (of course it hits the glass and furniture) and has the darkest colour of all my rabauties...!! It happened only to one cory... What do you think about that..?
I am really worried with the whole situation...:help:

I would run carbon for a week or two and see if that makes a difference. It sounds like an aggression issue though.

[Genirous]

I would run carbon for a week or two and see if that makes a difference. It sounds like an aggression issue though.

Here in Greece prevails the opinion not to use peat and active carbon together inside the filter...
They believe that a good portion of the humic acids are absorbed by the active carbon and also the second floods very soon by the constant absorbtion...

What do you know about this issue..?

PS: I would appreciate an answer to corys small wattle and the darker sand colour (if it is caused by the heavy metals of the fertilizers tabs)...

[Genirous]

Last night I had an idea and put an O2 diffusor (http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/pumpensysteme45.htm?cat=124)on the filter tube exode and today I saw my catfishes breathing slower than ever and being more active..!
I will let you know if this gets any better, thank you all for helping..!

[Chrona]

Glad to hear that!

As I said, the root tabs will only affect fish if they are exposed. If you have them pushed all the way down into the substrate, then it will not be a problem. As for the darker sand color, if it on the surface, it will not be due to the tabs. Not sure what is causing it though.