i am about to give up on fish period..

[italianxmna89]

after my two goldfish died i figured i would go with a tropical fish setup...i did a fishless cycle then added 11 neon tetras...it hasnt even been a week and 5 of them have died and the rest are all about to go..im 99% sure they all have neon tetra disease. what the heck did i do wrong???? i dechlorinated the water..i set the temperature correctly...i fed them regularly...the tank was cycled...like im afriad to put more fish in after these die because theyll probly share the same fate....what the heck would cause 11 neon tetras to die from neon tetra disease within 2 weeks i dont get it!!

[HorrorShowRot]

Did you add them all at the same time? Wat size tank is it and what are the parameters?

[hybridguy]

.Did you check your ammonia level? If you cycled your tank without fish that could be the problem

[robflanker]

I doubt all 11 have neon tetra disease buts its possible.

My first reaction would be that the tank was completely cycled.

How big of a tank?

Also, if you added all 11 in at the same time then you will have mini-cycled and that would kill them

[Deleted User]

Oh, please try a different kind of tropical fish! If you understand water parameters and yours are good, find a different tropical fish you'd like to try. We've had good luck with everything pretty much except neon tetras, which I think I have tried 3x total now, with no long term success. A lot of others here have said similar. I think there are just a whole lot of weak strains of them -- pretty as they are, it's a shame and I probably will give them another try but won't have too high hopes. Just based on what we have had here, I think there's a good chance it is the neons, and not you.

[smaug]

Neons can be very hard to keep.Ive tried them many times and they never make it long for me either.Buck up man!Try something a bit easier.How about a tank full of tiger barbs.They are beautiful and active and very hardy to boot.

[italianxmna89]

its a 20g ..ammonia is at 0 nitrites 0 and nitrates well below lethal..maybe 5ppm or less...i did add them all at the same time..i figured with a fishless cycle you can add more fish at once because of the large colony that was created using straight ammonia..i even added bacteria booster when i added the fish as well in case the fishless cycle was not perfect.. theres are 6 left and most of them are covered with either ich or just bumpy from neon tetra disease. sadly its just a waiting game for me until they all die..

[italianxmna89]

also i was thinking going with zebra danios...i hear theyre hardy..

[robflanker]

Why not treat the ich-ridden fish with ich-treatment rather than letting them die?

Nothing you can do for the ones with NTD tho

[smaug]

Why not treat the ich-ridden fish with ich-treatment rather than letting them die?

Nothing you can do for the ones with NTD tho
There is that too,ich takes awhile to kick.,,,,,,,wow man,,,,,,,,,,I made a rhyme:help:

[Deleted User]

Can you post pics?

I'm thinking members here could tell you easily if it looks like ick or NDT :ssmile:

[italianxmna89]

cant tell if its ich or ntd..

[robflanker]

So then post pictures or describe it in detail

[italianxmna89]

mostly looks like slime or white all over its body..very lumpy looking body..hangs around near the top of the tank..not swimming funny but not swimming normal.

[robflanker]

mostly looks like slime or white all over its body..very lumpy looking body..hangs around near the top of the tank..not swimming funny but not swimming normal.
Kinda of a contradiction, no?

Anyways - sounds more fungus related than ich. If you want to see ich, have a look at HorrorRotShow's recent threads.

What are you water params?

What is the chance of getting a picture?

[italianxmna89]

i just took some pics with my phone but its not coming out.. it just looks like hes got some white snow on its back and on the tips of its tail...the color on its body use to be a metalic red and blue and now just look like a flat red and blue..the ones that died before all lost theyre metalic luster before i found them dead as well making me think its ntd

[robflanker]

Any dead or dying fish will lose its colouring

When i moved, my neons got all freaked out and went whitish. Its a sign of stress.

White snow sounds like ich - we really need pictures.

I dont think its NTD based on the comments so far.

I'd do a WC, buy some rid-ich and start treating.

Also - what are you ammonia, -ites and -ates readings?

[italianxmna89]

i already gave my readings...

the one i was concerned about is now resting on the gravel on its side just gasping constantly...i dont think i cant do anything about it..

[robflanker]

Oh right - sorry, i forgot. I get threads confused sometimes. Are you using strips or liquid tests?

What chemicals do u add to your tank?

What filter are you using?

Gasper is essentially dead

[italianxmna89]

gasper just died...

i use aqua plus tap water conditioner..says it has patented stress-reducing formula..
i have a api liquid test kit for ammonia reads zero
i have strips for trate and trite...trite showing zero trate barely readin 20ppm
for ich i tried treating with kordon rid-ich+...all my decorations are stained blue now =/

my filter is an elite hush 35 running just filter media..no carbon because of meds

[robflanker]

I would get a liquid test strip for ates and ites....

Do a WC now - 40%

How long did u treat with the ich med

[Tetris]

I do think it's possible for 11 fish from the same store, purchased at the same time, to all have NTD...

NTD spreads when fish nibble at a fish that has died from NTD... I think it's entirely possible that the fish store neglected to spot a dead fish and remove it before the rest of the fish had a chance to take a couple bites.

[italianxmna89]

i treated with ich for 3 days...i just added another dose...and i did a 30-35% water change...

i wont have the same problems with tiger barbs or zebra danios will i? i might go that route after these things croak..

[VoidParadigm]

IF the Neons die I suggest going with Barbs. Much more fun to watch. All zebras do is spawn... problem is they eat their own eggs. So not much fun there. Barbs are full of personality and are fun to see chasing each other around. Not to mention they're very colorful! =] If I recall right at least orange, green and albino barbs are the same species, so you could do a mix-up of them.

[italianxmna89]

will barbs spawn? how many can i keep in a 20g tank? and theyre very hardy right?

[robflanker]

You need to treat Ich for weeks - not days

[Lady Hobbs]

its a 20g ..ammonia is at 0 nitrites 0 and nitrates well below lethal..maybe 5ppm or less...i did add them all at the same time..i figured with a fishless cycle you can add more fish at once because of the large colony that was created using straight ammonia..i even added bacteria booster when i added the fish as well in case the fishless cycle was not perfect.. theres are 6 left and most of them are covered with either ich or just bumpy from neon tetra disease. sadly its just a waiting game for me until they all die..

New fish often end up with Ick without two weeks of purchase. Very treatable if taken care immediately. Even Jungle Labs drop in Ick Pellets work well. Doing nothing and they just die.

I would add no more fish to this tank now until that Ick has been killed out.

[italianxmna89]

so your tellin me i need to continue adding this blue paint-like medication for weeks pretty much ruining the silicon and decorations in my tank granted my fish are going to die anyway but i need to kill off all the ich before adding new fish?? and how am i suppose to treat ich for weeks when my tetras are dying from it within a day?

[robflanker]

1) buy a different ich med if you are so concerned; my silicone isnt stained and ive used it many times on many diff tanks
2) your fish arent necessarily going to die
3) ich will survive for in the water/substrate/places for a long time - so yes it must be killed off before adding new fish
4) no-one said your tetras will die within a day

[italianxmna89]

did i mention i lost 4 of them today? which ich medication doesnt stain?

[Red]

They are made for aquariums, so they would make sure it woudln't stain silicone and decor.
What are your parameters?

[robflanker]

How many do you have left?

And as Red said - they dont stain permenantly, maybe temp

[italianxmna89]

5 left

i already listed my params red

i see floating circular things moving around in the water...are those ich colonies?

[robflanker]

No clue - we have no pictures. If they are, then you need to treat, and immediately.

[italianxmna89]

i put in the recommended dosage..should i exceed it??

[robflanker]

No but you should follow it until you see no more ich and then treat for a week longer

[Red]

There is no such thing as ich colonies... Once ich is on the body of a fish, its in its final stage, past free floating...

[italianxmna89]

thats the thing though i dont see the typical ich formations on the body..i know they resemble grains of salt on their body but all i see is that their color is very light...theyre not eating either..theyre just swimming in place and not budging..

[italianxmna89]

another one just died..5 in one day..

[robflanker]

Have you started treating? Did you do a WC?

Get some liquid tests for -ites and -ates too

[Sharon]

You may want to check the med that you're using and see if it's safe for the bacteria in the filter...Do the recommended treatment for ick, for the complete recommended period, and then a large water change...

[italianxmna89]

i have been treating for ich..just added another dosage.. pulled 3 dead from this morning...going to return them to the fish store since they guarentee them for 14 days...theres two left and i think the lack of a school will probly stress them to death...i suppose it would be a bad idea to get 3-4 more to see if the school will help their health..

[robflanker]

i suppose it would be a bad idea to get 3-4 more to see if the school will help their health..
Yeah that would be a idea - infecting new fish. Schooling wont help them fight off ich - medications will.

Just so you know, a lot of LFS have ich problems - its very common to get fish with Ich. You should get used to treating it cos if you are going to buying fish from the same store, there is a good chance other fish have it

[italianxmna89]

well im going to continue adding the ich medication...my guess is that the last two wont make it even though they look somewhat healthy. so after a few more days of medication do i do a large water change then add more fish?

[robflanker]

No.

You should treat ich for weeks like I've been saying.

Once ich is completely gone (in like 2-3 weeks) then add new fish but only if its gone

Any fish u have will just get infected and die like your other fish unless you kill off ich

[tigger1]

IIRC you should up the temperature in the tank to to help lessen the cycle from birth to death of the ick paracite.

Here are a few instructive sites i found:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

the second one mentions a salt method which I personally do not use but some others do.

hope this helps a little

[Lady Hobbs]

Not sure why you are treating for Ick when you aren't seeing it. It's very noticeable and especially on the fins. You just might have gotten some fish with a bacterial infection. That happened to me several months ago. But treating fish with medications when they may not have what the medication is for only adds more stress to them. Many of the Ick medications require half doses for smaller tetra's, as well.

Neons are not a good fish for new tanks. They should only go in tanks that are established. I also think they do better in lower than higher temps. Mine did well on 75 but not as well at 79.

[bushwhacker]

gotta agree with Lady H this dont sound like ich. more like a fungus

[robflanker]

Depending on the description it could be ich, fungus or a million other things.

The OP hasn't really given a clear description or a picture.

He mentioned it could be NTD.

I have no idea at this point

[bushwhacker]

could some one explain IIRC? i'v seen it a lot around here but have no idea what it means ?

[robflanker]

IIRC

If I Remember Correctly

[italianxmna89]

guy at the fish store said because i added all 11 at once then that was my problem..on top of neons not being good for new tanks i think that must be it...i am going to let the tank run for another day or so...and then what? do a large water change and add in some hardy danios? i think im going to go with zebra danios and tiger barbs...for a 20g i should get the small tiger barbs right? at the fish store they had pretty large tiger barbs..

atleast the fish store refunded my money on the 11 neons..

[VoidParadigm]

I personally wouldn't do barbs in anything but a species only tank. They're rather rambunscious (horrible spelling, I know) and can get nippy with other tankmates. In my opinion even when they're kept in large schools. Yeah, danios are hardy, and fast, but still... I personally wouldn't be at ease with it. Some strains of danio aren't as hardy as others anyways.

[Gramazing]

I'm no expert but I think a lot of zebra danios have weak strains too. I've lost 4 recently, they became emaciated and stopped eating. I got them a bacterial treatment, even isolated them in a hospital tank but no dice.

Some fish are inbred too much and can be weak, although I thought most neon tetras were wild caught. I don't know anything about barbs. Platys are easy to keep and there seems to be a lot of genetic diversity.

[italianxmna89]

so what should i start with? here i thought danios were the way to go but if not them then what? go with all barbs?

[VoidParadigm]

In my opinion just go with all barbs. Adding them 3-4 at a time is a much safer way to do it than all at once. Do you know how to acclimate?

[italianxmna89]

acclimate as in dipping them while theyre in the bag in my tank slowly so they that they get use to the temp without shock?

[VoidParadigm]

AND dripping or occasionally putting a little bit of tankwater into the bag over time (most people like 1+ hours.) Afterall, they do "breathe" water. Imagine yourself being in this beautiful fresh-aired field then in an instant choking on downtown city fumes. It would be a bit of a shock, wouldn't it? (Hopefully that analogy is reversed for your tank. :lol:)

[robflanker]

You need to fix the disease before you do anything else

that is your first priority

[italianxmna89]

you dont think me putting in 11 neon tetras in a new tank...which are 2 big no -nos.. is the reason they all died?

[VoidParadigm]

Well, are there any left at all?

[robflanker]

not if ur params are fine and if it looks like fungus or ich

so no, i dont

[Dixie]

I don't know why your neons died but I couldn't keep them either. There was a contest for small new tanks here a while back (in the spring I think) & I had a 10g. tank not in use so I decided to try it & bought some neons a couple different times (used filter media from another tank to cycle). They did ok for a couple more weeks so I bought some panda corys & added. The corys I think brought in ick & I treated with the jungle tabs as directed but lost them all anyway. I got discusted and didn't even enter the contest. I may eventually try them again but if you're as discusted as I was I would try another fish instead so you don't get turned off to fish keeping. It can be so enjoyable and rewarding when it goes right.

I think I would empty the tank, wash the gravel good, fill it back up & set the temp real high for several days before starting over. Wish you great luck next time.

[italianxmna89]

Well, are there any left at all?


nope

im just going to do a large water change and vac the rocks...then try 5 danios or barbs and we'll take it from there.

[Dixie]

It's your call but ick scared the nerve out of me ha ha. I know it's an easier chore in a 10g. than it is a 20g. though. Good luck with your new fish.

[robflanker]

nope

im just going to do a large water change and vac the rocks...then try 5 danios or barbs and we'll take it from there.

Ok im running out of patience, you are clearly not getting the message.

If you have Ich - this will not kill it, your new fish will just get the disease and they will die and you will be right back where you are now in a week or two.

You need to treat your tank for whatever disease it has - one WC will not do it.