The Replacement

[Drumachine09]

Well, i have news, that will make reptile guy VERY happy! I am thinking about taking out my UGF and replacing it with my penguin 100 w/biowheel. I got just a couple questions though.

1.) Is there any special way i should go about removing the UGF?
2.) Is there anything special i should do to condition the filter to go to saltwater?

[Rue]

...dunno for sure...but can't think of why you can't just pull up the UG...then vacuum throughly...

...and why you can't just start the Emperor...

...I'm switching my 2 280s over from SW to fresh...all I did was wash them out...

[Fishguy2727]

If there are fish there already add the Biowheel and then a couple weeks later pull out the UGF. Vacuum very well then pull the UGF. It will probably still make a mess in the tank, but less than if you don't vacuum well before the pull. You will be very happy you do this, just maybe not that day.

[Lady Hobbs]

This is funny to me as I just read in another thread how you were raving how much you love the UGF. LOL People always need to try something once I think but many don't stick with them for long.

Just slide it out carefully. The gunk will settle back down.

[Drumachine09]

This is funny to me as I just read in another thread how you were raving how much you love the UGF. LOL People always need to try something once I think but many don't stick with them for long.

Just slide it out carefully. The gunk will settle back down.

I do like UGFs. I got one because its effective, and extremely cheap. but know that i can afford to add a better filter,i am choosing to.

I also have 2 powerheads on the uplift tubes. Will i need both of them?

I am also planning on getting an actual hood, which i can use 2 10 watt compact flourecents, along with my 15 watt strip light.

I keep asking this question, sorry, but is 3.5 watts per gallon enough to grow some small mushrooms and maybe an anenmone (<<< for asthetic purposes only)?

[Chrona]

I do like UGFs. I got one because its effective, and extremely cheap. but know that i can afford to add a better filter,i am choosing to.

I also have 2 powerheads on the uplift tubes. Will i need both of them?

I am also planning on getting an actual hood, which i can use 2 10 watt compact flourecents, along with my 15 watt strip light.

I keep asking this question, sorry, but is 3.5 watts per gallon enough to grow some small mushrooms and maybe an anenmone (<<< for asthetic purposes only)?

Are those screw in type bulbs? You can figure they are 50% efficient compared to the straight tubes, unfortunately. And how much is the hood gonna cost? Keep in mind that 50/50 40 watt fixture is only 60 bucks... + 15w strip = 5.5w/g

If it's one thing I've learned so far, it's to save up and buy quality stuff from the get-go, so you don't end up with a hodge podge of random stuff that doesn't work like you want it to.

[Drumachine09]

Are those screw in type bulbs? You can figure they are 50% efficient compared to the straight tubes, unfortunately. And how much is the hood gonna cost? Keep in mind that 50/50 40 watt fixture is only 60 bucks... + 15w strip = 5.5w/g

If it's one thing I've learned so far, it's to save up and buy quality stuff from the get-go, so you don't end up with a hodge podge of random stuff that doesn't work like you want it to.

Even if they are only 50% efficient, it will still double my current WPG.

[Chrona]

Even if they are only 50% efficient, it will still double my current WPG.

Right, but how much will that increase cost you? At some point, it's just not worth it anymore, because in the end, you'll still need/want more light. Heck, I'm regretting skimping and only getting the 28 watt fixture for 35 bucks instead of shelling out 60 for the 40 watt fixture now. Sure the 28 watts grows stuff great, but I can grow more plants better with 40 watts (which was really my goal). You should decide what you ultimately want to do with the tank, and go from there so you don't end up finally buying that light fixture, and throwing out 3x light strips.

The 40 watt fixtures will also put out 40 watts of intensity, whereas a ton of 15 watt strips (regardless of how many you get) only puts out 15 watts of intensity. This is why metal halide lights are so desirable. Even if the wattage is the same, that intensity is many times higher, which is a key factor. The watt per gallon rule is more of a general guideline and a means for comparison.

[Drumachine09]

So what your saying is, no matter how many fixtures i get, i could have 100 watts, and as long as my biggest fixture is only 15 watts, thats the highest intensity i will have?

[Chrona]

So what your saying is, no matter how many fixtures i get, i could have 100 watts, and as long as my biggest fixture is only 15 watts, thats the highest intensity i will have?

Yes. The light intensity is only one factor of course. Total light also plays a role. The easiest way to demonstrate it is to look at one of those LED display screens. Those LED are what, like 0.25 watts each? Let's say theres 1000 in the array - about 30x33 LED's. LED's have higher watt to lumen efficiency than fluorescents, but a 5x 55 watt compact flourescent bulbs would look ALOT brighter, even if they technically put out the same amount of light. Likewise, you would not even be able to stare at a 250 watt metal halide bulb. It would burn your retinas.

So 5w/g of MH would be better than 5w/g of compact fluorescent, but say 3w/g of MH would probably not be as good as 5w/g of CF. You cannot compensate for low intensity merely by adding more bulbs, but having a higher intensity will be compensate for fewer bulbs.

This is all pulled from planted tanks, but it's all the same thing when it comes to lighting. People with high lighting + MH experience ludicrious growth rate.

[Drumachine09]

Well, ive looked everywhere, and asked around, but i cant see what is the lowest wattage you can have in a 10g to grow simple mushrooms. Im not trying to grow the huge expensive $100 corals. I just thought i would take a step out of my FW comfort zone and try SW. I never thought i would have to be shelling out money left and right.

[Chrona]

Saltwater + coral = money lol.

I checked reef forums and couldn't find anything either. It seems everyone has upwards of like 6-10 watts per gallon though....lol

[Drumachine09]

Saltwater + coral = money lol.

I checked reef forums and couldn't find anything either. It seems everyone has upwards of like 6-10 watts per gallon though....lol

One of the guys at the LFS said i would need 6.5-7 WPG for even mushrooms. i posted that here, and people said they thought he was trying to fry them.

[Chrona]

One of the guys at the LFS said i would need 6.5-7 WPG for even mushrooms. i posted that here, and people said they thought he was trying to fry them.

There are plenty of people running 10+watts/g. You can't fry a mushroom unless you have no UV shield for a MH light or if you don't acclimate it to the light slowly by covering part of the light or by keeping it in the shadow and gradually increasing the amount of light it gets.

[Drumachine09]

There are plenty of people running 10+watts/g. You can't fry a mushroom unless you have no UV shield for a MH light or if you don't acclimate it to the light slowly by covering part of the light or by keeping it in the shadow and gradually increasing the amount of light it gets.

You know alot about lights. What would the minumum amount of wattage would you think for a couple of small ones?

[Chrona]

You know alot about lights. What would the minumum amount of wattage would you think for a couple of small ones?

As I've said before, I know about lights and how they pertain to live plants. I incidentally also know a little about corals, but I don't have the experience to tell you....lol

[Drumachine09]

As I've said before, I know about lights and how they pertain to live plants. I incidentally also know a little about corals, but I don't have the experience to tell you....lol


Worthless peice of ..... we wont go there....



lol jk. What about the powerhead? will i need both of them when i give the UGF the boot?

[Chrona]

Worthless peice of ..... we wont go there....



lol jk. What about the powerhead? will i need both of them when i give the UGF the boot?

Depends on how powerful they are. As long as nothing is getting blown around, then it's fine.

[Drumachine09]

I think they each push 340 gallons per hour

[Lady Hobbs]

Since there's been some discussion regarding lighting here, I want to toss in a question.

Exactly what do they mean by 50/50 lights. Are they saying that half the wattage is going to the blue and half to the white? Like 50/50 60 watt? Is each bulb just 30 watt or are both 60 watt?

[2manyfish]

First off, I gotta say that if you thought you weren't going to spend all that much money on saltwater, better think again!! :ezpi_wink1:

Secondly, a big NO to the anemones. They require good lighting and a very stable, mature tank. Not to mention they will outgrow a little 10g unless you get something like a flower anemone (which is not a hosting anemone). The typical bubble-tipped anemones (BTA) and carpet anemones get quite huge...

Thirdly, mushroom corals can do quite well on 3 watts per gallon. They will do much better at 5 and really go wild on 10. The main thing with them is if you are doing the lower wattage, place them higher in the tank. Higher wattage, place them lower. You get the idea.

Next is kind of a biggie. You may not need to scrap the UGF. Have you ever thought about doing a reverse flow UGF? There is a guy over at reefcentral who has a reef tank that is using this method and get this.....the tank has been running for over 25 years!!! He has the longest running tank of anyone and is using perhaps the oldest method....

If you do decide to scrap the UGF then you will need those powerheads to provide flow. Mushrooms in general do not like a strong flow, moderate but not strong. Simply place the mushrooms where they are not being blown around and they will be fine. You must have some flow within the tank as the currents not only bring food and oxygen to the corals but the currents also take away their wastes. Make sure to have one of the powerheads aimed towards the waters surface to create a nice roiling effect (not splashing!!). This will help to provide maximum oxygen saturation.

The 50/50 lights are not two bulbs. It's a single bulb but the elements that are used in the actinic and in the white light (usually 10,000k) are both present.

[Drumachine09]

First off, I gotta say that if you thought you weren't going to spend all that much money on saltwater, better think again!! :ezpi_wink1:

Secondly, a big NO to the anemones. They require good lighting and a very stable, mature tank. Not to mention they will outgrow a little 10g unless you get something like a flower anemone (which is not a hosting anemone). The typical bubble-tipped anemones (BTA) and carpet anemones get quite huge...

Thirdly, mushroom corals can do quite well on 3 watts per gallon. They will do much better at 5 and really go wild on 10. The main thing with them is if you are doing the lower wattage, place them higher in the tank. Higher wattage, place them lower. You get the idea.

Next is kind of a biggie. You may not need to scrap the UGF. Have you ever thought about doing a reverse flow UGF? There is a guy over at reefcentral who has a reef tank that is using this method and get this.....the tank has been running for over 25 years!!! He has the longest running tank of anyone and is using perhaps the oldest method....

If you do decide to scrap the UGF then you will need those powerheads to provide flow. Mushrooms in general do not like a strong flow, moderate but not strong. Simply place the mushrooms where they are not being blown around and they will be fine. You must have some flow within the tank as the currents not only bring food and oxygen to the corals but the currents also take away their wastes. Make sure to have one of the powerheads aimed towards the waters surface to create a nice roiling effect (not splashing!!). This will help to provide maximum oxygen saturation.

The 50/50 lights are not two bulbs. It's a single bulb but the elements that are used in the actinic and in the white light (usually 10,000k) are both present.


I could rig a shelf like structure (not unlike those in malawi tanks) that would provide a step-up for the coral, and a new hiding place for my damsel.

[Chrona]

I think they each push 340 gallons per hour

LOL, that sounds a bit high for a 10g. That's like 100gph + 2x 340 gph = 780 gph. I dunno, you can give it a shot, but I think no matter where you point the jets, you are gonna get sand everywhere, lol.

[Chrona]

I could rig a shelf like structure (not unlike those in malawi tanks) that would provide a step-up for the coral, and a new hiding place for my damsel.

Or perhaps cement the plug the mushroom is on onto a piece of LR that is high up.

[Drumachine09]

Or perhaps cement the plug the mushroom is on onto a piece of LR that is high up.


Ill pick up some cheapie base rock, and then put some live rock on it, and hope the LR seeds the BR. (damn, more money)

IF mushrooms are a soft coral, how is the cement suposed to work?

[Drumachine09]

LOL, that sounds a bit high for a 10g. That's like 100gph + 2x 340 gph = 780 gph. I dunno, you can give it a shot, but I think no matter where you point the jets, you are gonna get sand everywhere, lol.

Oooops, i goofed. They are only 170 gph a peice. Big difference, huh?:hmm3grin2orange:

[Rue]

Well...if I had a SW tank (which I don't)...I'd definately want an anemone...luv the little 'suckers'...('stuckers'?)...and a clown fish...

[Chrona]

Ill pick up some cheapie base rock, and then put some live rock on it, and hope the LR seeds the BR. (damn, more money)

IF mushrooms are a soft coral, how is the cement suposed to work?

I think all coral frags come attached to this little plug made of some kind of ceramic. Then you wedge it in the LR or cement it in place.

[Chrona]

Oooops, i goofed. They are only 170 gph a peice. Big difference, huh?:hmm3grin2orange:

Not sure. 440 gph still sounds like an awful lot of flow. That's like 4x HOB filters on a 10g o.O

[Drumachine09]

So Would i be able to get away with one?

[Chrona]

I would ask 2manyfish or reptileguy. I'm just the plant dude ;)

[Drumachine09]

I would ask 2manyfish or reptileguy. I'm just the plant dude ;)


Aye! :thumb:

[cocoa_pleco]

Well...if I had a SW tank (which I don't)...I'd definately want an anemone...luv the little 'suckers'...('stuckers'?)...and a clown fish...


especially when they bite you. lol

i wanted to get a black percula clownfish, but the anenome, his food, and more live rock totaled 80$, so that was enough for a day.

[2manyfish]

When you buy mushrooms they will come attached to a small piece of rock. That's a good idea to make a shelf for the corals! Adding hiding spots are also always welcome by the fish!
The general idea of flow is at least 10x's the tanks volume so one powerhead should do fine but will you have flow from another source? Filter or skimmer??

[Drumachine09]

When you buy mushrooms they will come attached to a small piece of rock. That's a good idea to make a shelf for the corals! Adding hiding spots are also always welcome by the fish!
The general idea of flow is at least 10x's the tanks volume so one powerhead should do fine but will you have flow from another source? Filter or skimmer??

I will be taking out the UGF and be putting in a penguin 100 biowheel. I dont have a skimmer, because the only ones i can find are 110 dollars, and for huge tanks.

[cocoa_pleco]

speaking of skimmers, mine was supposed to come in a month ago. The HOB one i bought had a broken foam chamber late february, and was supposed to re-ship in a week. So much for that

[2manyfish]

Nano skimmer

www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=14676&N=2004+113771



speaking of skimmers, mine was supposed to come in a month ago. The HOB one i bought had a broken foam chamber late february, and was supposed to re-ship in a week. So much for that


Yikes! Time to make a phone call!!

[Drumachine09]

How exactly does a protien skimmer work?

[Chrona]

An impeller chops up air bubbles into a fine mist. Dissolved organics (proteins) bind to the bubbles and rise up to the top as foam, where is it collected in a cup. Looks pretty sweet to a mechanical engineer, heh.

[Drumachine09]

An impeller chops up air bubbles into a fine mist. Dissolved organics (proteins) bind to the bubbles and rise up to the top as foam, where is it collected in a cup. Looks pretty sweet to a mechanical engineer, heh.


Hmmm. I think i could actually make one of these. I have a motor for an old powerhead, i just need an impeller, some pvc, and a collection cup. id rather just buy one.

[Chrona]

Hmmm. I think i could actually make one of these. I have a motor for an old powerhead, i just need an impeller, some pvc, and a collection cup. id rather just buy one.

Not worth making your own imo. You need a special kind of impeller (needle-wheel or something). Plus, I don't think regular powerhead impellers are rated to withstand all the vibration from constant air bubbles.

[Drumachine09]

Not worth making your own imo. You need a special kind of impeller (needle-wheel or something). Plus, I don't think regular powerhead impellers are rated to withstand all the vibration from constant air bubbles.


Oh. i will go to the two strictly saltwater LFS this week sometime and see what i can pick up. Hopefully, some ubercheap liverock, nano skimmer, and a 60 watt 5050 fixture.

[Chrona]

Oh. i will go to the two strictly saltwater LFS this week sometime and see what i can pick up. Hopefully, some ubercheap liverock, nano skimmer, and a 60 watt 5050 fixture.

Oh so we are rolling in dough now eh? *snicker*

[Drumachine09]

Oh so we are rolling in dough now eh? *snicker*


I just made $50 and i hate not spending money the moment i get it.

[Chrona]

I just made $50 and i hate not spending money the moment i get it.

Save up another 10 for the light fixture and order online. LFS's are a ripoff for any kind of equipment. That same 40w fixture will cost you like 100 at the store, and the nano skimmer will probably be like 30-40.

[cocoa_pleco]

i called them, and i remember late february returning it. I gave them my cell number and for them to call me for the shipment the next week. I called min march to ask if it came in, and they said no. I wanted it so bad, since its a a HOB and is aquaclear mini sized. They have a nanoreef display with a aquaclear, the skimmer i want, 10 lbs live rock, 2 oscellaris clowns, and like 10 corals. I just wanna run in and jack the skimmer on their tank.

Theres one on ebay that goes in the tank, and is pint-sized. I want the HOB one.


I doubt the store is intentionally not getting the shipment. I always go there for salt stuff. All their employees have to have a minimum degree of knowledge, be mature, and they use the best equipment possible.

[Drumachine09]

Save up another 10 for the light fixture and order online. LFS's are a ripoff for any kind of equipment. That same 40w fixture will cost you like 100 at the store, and the nano skimmer will probably be like 30-40.

Well, then ill see if i can get a couple lbs of live rock, or do they need good light too?

[Chrona]

i called them, and i remember late february returning it. I gave them my cell number and for them to call me for the shipment the next week. I called min march to ask if it came in, and they said no. I wanted it so bad, since its a a HOB and is aquaclear mini sized. They have a nanoreef display with a aquaclear, the skimmer i want, 10 lbs live rock, 2 oscellaris clowns, and like 10 corals. I just wanna run in and jack the skimmer on their tank.

Theres one on ebay that goes in the tank, and is pint-sized. I want the HOB one.


I doubt the store is intentionally not getting the shipment. I always go there for salt stuff. All their employees have to have a minimum degree of knowledge, be mature, and they use the best equipment possible.

Thanks for the randomly inserted comment :rolleyes:

[Chrona]

Well, then ill see if i can get a couple lbs of live rock, or do they need good light too?

Well, this is just my opinion, but getting liverock is buying all the various organisms on it too, like hitchhiking corals, etc, so if you don't have the lighting to grow them, it's kind of a waste. Just my opinion. Live rock does it's job (filtration) just fine with minimal light though.

[Drumachine09]

Thanks for the randomly inserted comment :rolleyes:
c

Yeah.....mkay