Wet/Dry sump filtration system..

[kaimarkhirst]

Am going to be moving from my fx5 filtration systems to natural sumps wet/dry filtration method. Here is the opinion for the first of them..

1.. for the 101g tank.

pump flowing water into the filtrtation system onto a shelf here it trickles down to the filtration media(s) Compartments (suggestions) then is returned to the main tank. Total pump per hour is 1500litres.

Tank holding size for media will be 10g....

Questions.

Already decide on three compartments, 1 for bio-balls, 1 peat or similar depending on the tank conditions, 1 for carbon and an airstone, then itll retunr to the display tank.

have posted this idea to get your opinion with a view to being built within the next 4 weeks so I will need opinions of an experienced and specialist nature please, as I want to get this right forst time. (No offense to anyone...)

regards

Kai

[Aeonflame]

Instead of bio balls, you can try plastic pot scrubbers, A lot cheaper and they provide a lot of surface area.

[MonkeyPox]

I wouldn't rub carbon full time. I also would not run an airstone inside a sump. Their main purpose is surface agitation, which your return should allow. Placing it inside the sump provides no additional benefit.

[kaimarkhirst]

"I also would not run an airstone inside a sump"

So im assuming tha the fitration method itself will apply enought oxygen for the tank? My thinking is that the air system will agitate and oxygenate the water before it re-enters the tank, but if its not neccessary, then great.. bonus actually....

PS why not carbon?? Ive always ran it in marines, it cleans the water if its changes on a bi-monthly basis....

I also want to place a heater in the filtration system. My concern is that the flowing water will not heat enough to give the correct temparature upon reachin the display tank. Any ideas on this or will the flow of water and the heater source compensate for this?? Opinions needed on this one..

Cheers

Kai

[domjd05]

When you fill your tank up make sure its as close to the desired temp as you can get it, that way the heater in the sump will not have to work as hard to heat up the water.. tons of people use heaters in sumps and they all seem to work fine..

[MonkeyPox]

"I also would not run an airstone inside a sump"

So im assuming tha the fitration method itself will apply enought oxygen for the tank? My thinking is that the air system will agitate and oxygenate the water before it re-enters the tank, but if its not neccessary, then great.. bonus actually....

PS why not carbon?? Ive always ran it in marines, it cleans the water if its changes on a bi-monthly basis....

I also want to place a heater in the filtration system. My concern is that the flowing water will not heat enough to give the correct temparature upon reachin the display tank. Any ideas on this or will the flow of water and the heater source compensate for this?? Opinions needed on this one..

Cheers

Kai

The water flowing over the bio balls (the dry, in wet/dry) provides all the origination you need.
Placing a heater in the sump will adequately heat your tank, assuming it is large enough. I like to place mine in the first chamber that the water enters the sump to.
There are numerous other threads discussing the use of carbon. It may be better to search those out then have your thread turn into a discussion on carbon usage.

[kaimarkhirst]

The heater will be my rena glassless 300w thats in the tank now. It does the job very well indeed, although possibly could put another 200w standard heater to balance the workload. Any opinions?

So heres my revised sump comprisement.

Compartment 1. bio-balls to which the water will flow onto...
Compartment 2. peat filtration or some other natural permeable substance.
Compartment 3. Heater.


Still not sure about the heater in compartment 3, as I cant see the water getting enough exposure to it before returning to the display. Again, wil lneed opinions on this one please...

Cheers

Kai

[kaimarkhirst]

ok.....

revised design.

1. Inlet with bio-balls or ceramic media (Which is better??)

2. Main Sump area with Clean up Crew (Shrimp/snails and crabs), live sand and live rock with heater.
3. return pump only with carbon (Maybe...)

Any opinions on a tropical clean up crew and what should the main sump consist of?

Cheers

Kai

[MonkeyPox]

Not sure if it was stated, but since you mentioned live rock and inverts as part of your clean up crew, I assume this is a saltwater tank?

1. Ceramic media has more surface area then bio balls, though it would be much more expensive.
2. A clean up crew isn't really necessary in the sump; you want them in your display tank to consume detritus, uneaten food, etc. Although some of these elements will make their way in the sump, not enough will pass through to gain the same benefit that you would get in the display tank.
3. Put the heater in either the first or last compartment, not in the refugium space.

For a display clean up crew, it will somewhat depend on what you have in your main tank. A good mixture of snails (turbos and narrisus, cerith), crabs of carious types, shrimp, and other inverts is usually in order.

[kaimarkhirst]

nope, this sump is purely for my freshwater tank.

[kaimarkhirst]

also,

what about the flow rate of a sump? As im going to have a total of 2500litres per hour through the sump, whats better.

To have one outlet leading into the sump, or split the outlet so a wider area of bio-balls get doused with water, then simply have one large return pumpflowing back into the display tank...

Also is it better to have the media completely submerged, or partially?

so many questions!!!!

Kai

[MonkeyPox]

also,

what about the flow rate of a sump? As im going to have a total of 2500litres per hour through the sump, whats better.

To have one outlet leading into the sump, or split the outlet so a wider area of bio-balls get doused with water, then simply have one large return pumpflowing back into the display tank...

Also is it better to have the media completely submerged, or partially?

so many questions!!!!

Kai

I'm a little confused on what you're trying to do. As I read it, you are attempting to emulate a saltwater style filtration system into a freshwater tank. That confusion could easily come about from doing research on sumps and systems without distinguishing between salt or fresh water.

Live rock and live sand are used in salt water tanks. The word "live" indicates it as a location for bacteria, coraline algae, micropods, etc... and is not really relevant to a freshwater tank. Although any material surface will house bacteria, there are far better options for fw.

In the common freshwater system that utilizes a sump, a wet/dry trickle filter is used. In that type of system, water flows into one chamber, then spills into another with a diffuser. Most filters place a mechanical filtration pad on top of the diffuser. The water then trickles down over bioballs or some other media that houses beneficial bacteria. The water then goes through an egg grate, past a bubble trap, and then into a return chamber.

See example here ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]).

In a freshwater sump, you won't really have a clean up crew. That function can be accomplished through snails or algae eating fish in the display tank.

Heaters can be placed in the return chamber without issue.

The media is more effective if the water trickles over it, and it can oxygenate. If you get a pre-made trickle filter, it will likely have a water level indicator.
Some people recommend up to 1/3 of the media being submerged, but I prefer to dump extra bags of ceramic or sintered glass under the egg crate to perform this function.