Someone's eating the Guppies!

[Dawn B]

Hello. I have a 20G freshwater tank. We've been up and running about a month. Things have been going fairly well until the Guppies started getting eaten in the last few days. Here's what I have in my tank:

2 Mollies, 1 female Black, very fat, maybe pregnant? She has gotten very nippy in the last few days (maybe the culprit?). 1 white male.
2 Dwarf Gouramis, one is a little nippy or playful, not sure which.
2 Black Phantom Tetras, they seem shy and hang out around the bottom.
3 Bloodfin Tetras, pretty agreeable so far.
We HAD 5 Guppies. 2 were found dead, half-eaten. We replaced those. Another was found dead today (I witnessed the Gourami nudge him as he was dying, not sure if she nipped him or not). The one who died today was a new one, it *could* have come to our tank ill.
I had 1 Blue & Red Columbian Tetra left (his 2 tankmates died, they were our first 3 fish and 2 died immediatley). I removed him from the tank after finding the half-eaten Mollies assuming he was the culprit.

I'm wondering if the Molly is pregnant. She is REALLY fat and seems to be getting more nippy daily.

The Dwarf Gouramis are fairly shy, but one of them is more aggressive than the other. He chases the other Gourami. I'm not sure if he's playing of fighting. I have seen him nudge the other fish, but not sure if he's actually nipping them.

Any thoughts as to who the 'bad guy' is?

Thanks!
Dawn

PS: Below is a picture of the Black Molly, do you think she is pregnant?

[cocoa_pleco]

my bloodfins dont bug anything, but the guppies fins may have looked tasty to them.

[Chrona]

Hello. I have a 20G freshwater tank. We've been up and running about a month. Things have been going fairly well until the Guppies started getting eaten in the last few days. Here's what I have in my tank:

2 Mollies, 1 female Black, very fat, maybe pregnant? She has gotten very nippy in the last few days (maybe the culprit?). 1 white male.
2 Dwarf Gouramis, one is a little nippy or playful, not sure which.
2 Black Phantom Tetras, they seem shy and hang out around the bottom.
3 Bloodfin Tetras, pretty agreeable so far.
We HAD 5 Guppies. 2 were found dead, half-eaten. We replaced those. Another was found dead today (I witnessed the Gourami nudge him as he was dying, not sure if she nipped him or not). The one who died today was a new one, it *could* have come to our tank ill.
I had 1 Blue & Red Columbian Tetra left (his 2 tankmates died, they were our first 3 fish and 2 died immediatley). I removed him from the tank after finding the half-eaten Mollies assuming he was the culprit.

I'm wondering if the Molly is pregnant. She is REALLY fat and seems to be getting more nippy daily.

The Dwarf Gouramis are fairly shy, but one of them is more aggressive than the other. He chases the other Gourami. I'm not sure if he's playing of fighting. I have seen him nudge the other fish, but not sure if he's actually nipping them.

Any thoughts as to who the 'bad guy' is?

Thanks!
Dawn

PS: Below is a picture of the Black Molly, do you think she is pregnant?

Dwarf gourami - if both are male (same coloration) then the dominant one will chase the other around. Make sure you have plenty of cover so the other one doesn't get stressed.

Dead fish - Most likely, the fish were eaten because they died, not the other way around. The fish you have are not normally that aggressive, so I'm thinking that's the cause. The death of the fish, however, may have been due to stress from getting chased. Most likely the columbian and/or the bloodfin tetras were the culprits in harassing the guppies. What are your water parameters?

[Dawn B]

Forgive my novice-ness coming through but, by water parameters do you mean chemistry? If so that was another thread I've been planning to start. I can't figure out what's going on.

I have been taking my water in to the local "PetCo" to have it tested since they test for free. But, most of the kids that are doing the testing just say "it's within safe parameters" and let it go at that, telling me nothing. So I bought the same test strips they use, Mardel 5in1 and the Mardel Ammonia Strips. This is what I've been getting and what I've tried to do about it:

Monday Evening:
Ammonia 3.0
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 1.0
Total Hardness appeared to be between 120 and 250 color-wise
Alkalinity 240
pH 7.6

After this test on Monday I put in the Amquel + which says it gets rid of ammonia, nitrates, nitrites etc.

Tuesday evening: I changed out 20% of the water then tested:
Ammonia 1.0
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 1.0
Total Hardness appeared to be just over 120 color-wise
Alkalinity 180
pH 7.6

Wednesday Morning:
Ammonia looked to be between 1.0 and 3.0 color-wise
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0
Total Hardness appeared to be between 120
Alkalinity 180
pH 7.6

Wednesday Evening:
Ammonia appeared to be between 1.0 and 3.0
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0
Total Hardness appeared to be between 120
Alkalinity 180
pH 7.6

I put in the Amquel + again.

Thursday evening (today):
Ammonia looked to be between 1.0 and 2.0
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0
Total Hardness appeared to be between 120 and 250 color-wise
Alkalinity 180
pH 7.6

I put in the Amquel + again.

I plan to do another 20% water change tomorrow.

I have a Penguin Bio-Wheel filter it says it's good up to 30 gallons, and ours is a 20G.

The temperature is around 79.

I have 2 living plants in the tank.

I clean the rocks at least 2x a week, but I was talked into buying one of those battery operated ones with the sock that strains the stuff and the water goes back into the tank.

I was changing the water once a week, on Fridays, but I did it Tuesday because of the readings. Also, Tuesday night we discovered that our filter was filthy and we changed it.

Thoughts?

[Dawn B]

Dwarf gourami - if both are male (same coloration) then the dominant one will chase the other around. Make sure you have plenty of cover so the other one doesn't get stressed.


One Dwarf Gourami is silver/blue with orange stripes and the other is Orange with Silver/Blue stripes. It is the more orange one which seems dominant.

[Dawn B]

I forgot to add, I have Aquarium salt in the tank. I have been puting in the amount needed for the NEW water added to the tank at cleanings. Should I put in the amount for the whole 20G? I was afraid I would over salt the water.

I use these chemicals:
API Aquarium Salt
Aqua Plus Water Conditioner
Cycle

[cocoa_pleco]

WOAH, that ammonia is no good. do a 40% water change. It has to be at 0.
Those nitrites are looking nasty too

Salt is not needed, its really only useful in hospital tanks.

Since ammonias so bad, try and get the product ammo-lock. It makes ammonia less harsh on fish.

[Chrona]

Amquel+ gives a false positive ammonia reading, so I'm not really sure if you actually have any ammonia in the tank (you shouldn't if the tank is a month old, and you especially shouldn't if you are adding amquel). The level of nitrites is somewhat alarming though, but is probably due to the filter cartridge change and gravel vacuuming being at the same time. Have you recently added any new fish? What's the progression of stocking been so far? Stop adding Amquel and test your water after about 48 hours (do a water change in between to get rid of some of the amquel). The nitrites should drop off pretty soon in an established tank, and any ammonia should be eaten up pretty quickly, but this is just a precaution to make sure.


I think both gourami's are male. You are probably going to have some aggression issues, so just keep an eye on it and try to get some decorations to break up territories.

Don't add salt. You don't need it and the cories don't like it.

[blue fin]

Forgive my novice-ness coming through but, by water parameters do you mean chemistry? If so that was another thread I've been planning to start. I can't figure out what's going on.

I have been taking my water in to the local "PetCo" to have it tested since they test for free. But, most of the kids that are doing the testing just say "it's within safe parameters" and let it go at that, telling me nothing. So I bought the same test strips they use, Mardel 5in1 and the Mardel Ammonia Strips. This is what I've been getting and what I've tried to do about it:

Monday Evening:
Ammonia 3.0
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 1.0
Total Hardness appeared to be between 120 and 250 color-wise
Alkalinity 240
pH 7.6

After this test on Monday I put in the Amquel + which says it gets rid of ammonia, nitrates, nitrites etc.

Tuesday evening: I changed out 20% of the water then tested:
Ammonia 1.0
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 1.0
Total Hardness appeared to be just over 120 color-wise
Alkalinity 180
pH 7.6

Wednesday Morning:
Ammonia looked to be between 1.0 and 3.0 color-wise
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0
Total Hardness appeared to be between 120
Alkalinity 180
pH 7.6

Wednesday Evening:
Ammonia appeared to be between 1.0 and 3.0
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0
Total Hardness appeared to be between 120
Alkalinity 180
pH 7.6

I put in the Amquel + again.

Thursday evening (today):
Ammonia looked to be between 1.0 and 2.0
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0
Total Hardness appeared to be between 120 and 250 color-wise
Alkalinity 180
pH 7.6

I put in the Amquel + again.

I plan to do another 20% water change tomorrow.

I have a Penguin Bio-Wheel filter it says it's good up to 30 gallons, and ours is a 20G.

The temperature is around 79.

I have 2 living plants in the tank.

I clean the rocks at least 2x a week, but I was talked into buying one of those battery operated ones with the sock that strains the stuff and the water goes back into the tank.

I was changing the water once a week, on Fridays, but I did it Tuesday because of the readings. Also, Tuesday night we discovered that our filter was filthy and we changed it.

Thoughts?
Do yourself a big favor, buy the liquid test kit.. asap. I went online and printed the price from Petsmart online, saved 12 bucks on a 25 dollar kit. Get the freshwater master kit.

Ammonia is what the fish produce as waste, also is a byproduct of food rotting in the substrate, when your tank is fully cycled this number will be zero. if it is high it will quickly cause problems in your tank, anything over around 5ppm is bad for your fish and zero is the desireable number.

Nitrite is the compound that the ammonia is converted to by beneficial bacteria, it is also non-desireable.

Nitrate is not so bad for the fish, another bacteria will convert the nitrites into nitrates, you should shoot for 10ppm or less but you'll be ok as high as 20, just plan on testing weekly and performing your water changes routinely.

Don't trust the test strips, I can tell you personnally they just aren't accurate. as soon as I got my test kit the strips went into the trash.

Good luck!

[cocoa_pleco]

arrrrrrrggg, me and chrona ninja posted!:ezpi_wink1:

[blue fin]

WOAH, that ammonia is no good. do a 40% water change. It has to be at 0.
Those nitrites are looking nasty too

Salt is not needed, its really only useful in hospital tanks.

Since ammonias so bad, try and get the product ammo-lock. It makes ammonia less harsh on fish.

I have had good luck with salt but I only use half the recommended dosage or slighly less, but as Cocoa_pleco says, it is not needed. just my 2c

[Dawn B]

Thanks!

I thought it was odd that my numbers were so bad. I will to the water change tomorrow and then test again on Saturday.

We put in 3 fish, then added 2 about 4 days later. The next week we added 3 more and about 4 or 5 days later added 1 more. Then just last Saturday or Sunday we added the 2 black phantom tetras and 2 gourami.

[cocoa_pleco]

and so many fish are sensitive to it like corys, that its too big of a chance for little results

[Chrona]

Thanks!

I thought it was odd that my numbers were so bad. I will to the water change tomorrow and then test again on Saturday.

We put in 3 fish, then added 2 about 4 days later. The next week we added 3 more and about 4 or 5 days later added 1 more. Then just last Saturday or Sunday we added the 2 black phantom tetras and 2 gourami.

It is possible your tank is going through a mini-cycle with the addition of the latest fish. It will pass in time though.

[Dawn B]

I have to say on a side-note the reason I started really using the Salt was because I got a Betta. I put it in a 1G tank (I know, too small). Anyhow, when I got it I found out it had a bacterial infection and it grew what looked like hair and died in less than a few hours. It was horrific to watch (esp. for my 5 year-old daughter!). I read that the salt will help prevent illness.

Also, what do you do to change the water?

I have one of those electric vacs to clean the gravel. But, I've been using an old cleaned half-gallon milk jug to get the water out of the tank. And, then rinsing it and using it to put the water back in.

[blue fin]

I have to say on a side-note the reason I started really using the Salt was because I got a Betta. I put it in a 1G tank (I know, too small). Anyhow, when I got it I found out it had a bacterial infection and it grew what looked like hair and died in less than a few hours. It was horrific to watch (esp. for my 5 year-old daughter!). I read that the salt will help prevent illness.

Also, what do you do to change the water?

I have one of those electric vacs to clean the gravel. But, I've been using an old cleaned half-gallon milk jug to get the water out of the tank. And, then rinsing it and using it to put the water back in.
It's ok to do it this way as long as you add back the dechlorinator, I add salt to every 4 or 5 buckets of water I add

[cocoa_pleco]

i use my electric vac between vaccums.

I use a python every week, ( its like a vacuum thats hooks to your sink), and do a 30% water change every sunday.

Most people use a regular siphon though. You just swish the gravel around and thats it, throw the old water in a plant pot/garden/sink/toilet, add new water.

Pythons are really for people with lots of tanks. my lfs's use them. I need them because 9 tanks is alot of work

[Chrona]

I have to say on a side-note the reason I started really using the Salt was because I got a Betta. I put it in a 1G tank (I know, too small). Anyhow, when I got it I found out it had a bacterial infection and it grew what looked like hair and died in less than a few hours. It was horrific to watch (esp. for my 5 year-old daughter!). I read that the salt will help prevent illness.

Also, what do you do to change the water?

I have one of those electric vacs to clean the gravel. But, I've been using an old cleaned half-gallon milk jug to get the water out of the tank. And, then rinsing it and using it to put the water back in.

A syphon hose (clear vinyl tubing from a hardware store) + bucket works better.

Here's an excellent link for the use of salt:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[blue fin]

i use my electric vac between vaccums.

I use a python every week, ( its like a vacuum thats hooks to your sink), and do a 30% water change every sunday.

Most people use a regular siphon though. You just swish the gravel around and thats it, throw the old water in a plant pot/garden/sink/toilet, add new water.

Pythons are really for people with lots of tanks. my lfs's use them. I need them because 9 tanks is alot of work
I'll have to agree the Python works great.. not feasible if you have a small tank and only one or two, I love it on my 75 gal tank, clean the gravel and drain water to be changed at the same time......

[wijnands]

His water parameters aren't great but what puzzles me is that the guppies are biting the big one here. I've known guppies as being amazingly resilient fish. They can survive in water that would have most other species do a backstroke.

[Chrona]

His water parameters aren't great but what puzzles me is that the guppies are biting the big one here. I've known guppies as being amazingly resilient fish. They can survive in water that would have most other species do a backstroke.

Very true, but he/she also has many varieties of semi-aggressive tetras that will go after the long finned guppies. While they don't eat them, the guppies eventually succumb to the stress

[wijnands]

That might of course be it. The whole collection of fish isn't that great.

[Dawn B]

That might of course be it. The whole collection of fish isn't that great.

We went to a fish specialty store and talked to them about what is good and not. I read a LOT about the fish before I got them. I did NOT want guppies, but my son (autistic) desperately did. At that point we already had Tetras. It's not like I can just flush them because the collection "isn't that great"!

[Chrona]

We went to a fish specialty store and talked to them about what is good and not. I read a LOT about the fish before I got them. I did NOT want guppies, but my son (autistic) desperately did. At that point we already had Tetras. It's not like I can just flush them because the collection "isn't that great"!

He wasn't trying to be insulting, was just merely pointing it out :)

In the future, take all LFS advice with a grain of salt (a BIG grain of salt lol). Pretty much everything I've heard from them is a load of BS coming from the mouth of an underpaid, unknowledgable employee. There are exceptions, obviously, but they are very few.

[Dawn B]

I guess my big question would be what should I do. I have a 10G tank that is starting to cycle. We've got a divider in it where about 3G of the water is separated for a Betta. I didn't know yet what to put on the side which has about 7G. I wanted an angelfish, but wasn't sure that was enough space. I could try to rearrange the fish I have.

I also have a small 1G tank that I just used for a Betta that had a bacterial infection and died less than 24hrs after I got him. We have cleaned the 1G tank, but I didn't feel it was big enough for him and I got the 10G tank.

[Chrona]

I guess my big question would be what should I do. I have a 10G tank that is starting to cycle. We've got a divider in it where about 3G of the water is separated for a Betta. I didn't know yet what to put on the side which has about 7G. I wanted an angelfish, but wasn't sure that was enough space. I could try to rearrange the fish I have.

I also have a small 1G tank that I just used for a Betta that had a bacterial infection and died less than 24hrs after I got him. We have cleaned the 1G tank, but I didn't feel it was big enough for him and I got the 10G tank.

The bloodfins, columbian tetras can go in one tank, and the livebearers, phantom tetra, cories, guppies and the gouramis can go in the 20g

[Dawn B]

Thank you everyone.