I brought home two new oscars yesterday. I Need help!!!

[Msstate12]

I brought home two new oscars yesterday. They both appeared to be healthy specimens at the store, but when i brought them home they just rest at the bottom of the tank all the time. I thought it might be a stress thing, so i added some salts and turned off the lights, but they are only moving as little as possible. Is this normal behavior for an oscar, or is it just stressed from the new water chemistry? Also, what can i do to make the fish be more active?

[TracyUK]

Do oscars need salt? Mine don't have any. Have you tested your water? What other fish are in with them?

[Drumachine09]

How big is your tank? How long has it been setup? How did you cycle it? Did you cycle it?

[Msstate12]

No, they dont need salt, but my stepdad told me it would help reduce stress. I have one pleco in there, it is a 55 Gallon, and yes the water quality is good.

[Msstate12]

It was setup 48 hours ago, and yeah i cycled it. i dont know if 48 hours was long enough though

[Drumachine09]

It was setup 48 hours ago, and yeah i cycled it. i dont know if 48 hours was long enough though
Thats not even close. Return the fish or they will die. You need to cycle the tank. Download the free aquarium ebook on the lefthand menu.

[Drumachine09]

Not to be a party pooper, but your oscars need a bigger tank.

[Msstate12]

Ok, thanks for your help

[TracyUK]

55 gallons is not big enough for two oscars. Its the minimum for one oscar!

[Fishlova88]

when i got my oscar he was quiet at first but as soon as he got comfortable he was just fine....i think u should just wait and not mess with it so much.

[Drumachine09]

when i got my oscar he was quiet at first but as soon as he got comfortable he was just fine....i think u should just wait and not mess with it so much.

No, he needs to cycle his tank. if he leaves them in, they will die.

[cocoa_pleco]

55g is good for one, and cycling takes 1 week to a month. Ny record was 8 hours for cycling, but thats like 1/100000000

Return them. Theyre messy, and will get sick

[Drumachine09]

55g is good for one, and cycling takes 1 week to a month. Ny record was 8 hours for cycling, but thats like 1/100000000

Return them. Theyre messy, and will get sick


Im calling your bluff on the 8 hours.

[cocoa_pleco]

i dont know how that happened. I added about 2 boxes of ceramic rings, and all the other stuff. somehow, it actually cycled fast. My fish in there were getting ammonia poisoning from my old crappy filter, and as soon as i rigged my canister up it cycled in 8 hours.

[Drumachine09]

i dont know how that happened. I added about 2 boxes of ceramic rings, and all the other stuff. somehow, it actually cycled fast. My fish in there were getting ammonia poisoning from my old crappy filter, and as soon as i rigged my canister up it cycled in 8 hours.


Still, im calling bs on this one.

[cocoa_pleco]

i had all the media, 4 seeded foam pads, and i put in a big bottle of cycle. The whisper couldnt handle my bio-load on the 20g. The canister filter was huge too, up to 125g. It was ridiculously cheap, but it broke a month ago. I need new parts

[Lady Hobbs]

Sorry about all the bad news here but frankly, they're correct.

Please read this:

http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/cichlids_neotropical/oscars.htm

Your oscars are laying around due to the fact they have a new home. You should not have salt in the water with a pleco. Neither of these need salt.

If I were you and what would be much easier is to return these fish and do a fishless cycle. You can read about it here in the Tank Setup threads. You could also get some bio-spira from your fish store and use that for a faster cycle but it's $20. It will give a fast cycle, however.

Cyling (with fish) takes 2-3 weeks and require constant monitoring of your water and doing constant water changes or you fish will die due to toxins. Doing a fishless cycle using pure ammonia takes about 10-12 days.

[DemonShark]

Hmm seems to be the enviroment thing again! Lets see they arent active you say? Well its proubly mostly due to the enviroment change and it scarried them! So I suggest hiding places for your oscars till they get used to you. feed them good food to and remove that salt, cause it will stress them even more and your tank will be sufficent for NOW but LATER YOU WILL NEED A BIG TANK like a 100 something. And now Im going to say something that will make people angry! YAY me right?! I have found that cylcing is really not nessacary! Thats right! Just add some stress coat to the tank and it should be all ready. And if you ahve a bio filter add some cycle. Hope that helps!

[gm72]

Demonshark, are you suggesting cycling is not necessary with just Oscars or with all fish?

[DemonShark]

With most fish. But if they are very very sensetive then i suggest cylcing.

[Incredulous_Ed]

Ya know, a while ago, when i didn't know squat about cycling, i put 2 honey gouramis in a tank, and somehow, they survived.

[holbritter]

How could they survive that nitrite spike the new tanks have?
I thought that was really dangerous, not to mention the ammonia.

[kimmers318]

Alot of whether they are going to survive or not will be based on the size of the fish, the size of the tank and the water maintenance schedule. We started with 2 very small oscars (about 2" each) in a 90 gallon tank. The waste they created between water changes was nothing in that amount of water and the bacteria grew to handle it. The bacteria continues to grow with them as they grow. With small loads and sufficient water volume to dilute the waste you are not going to see much of an effect......where you see people coming in with high ammonia and nitrite levels they are usually giving you a listing of fish that is pretty much fully stocked, and of course they added them all at once or over a very short period of time.
But, 2 oscars are not going to thrive in a 55 gallon tank. Another question too is how long has the pleco been in there? That pleco if it is fairly large is creating a large waste load all by itself, plecos are poop machines and it could have already caused some waste buildup that is beginning to turn into ammonia and then you put the oscars in and they are not liking it. Try a largish water change and see how they react, making sure you dechlorinate the water first of course. If you wish to keep these guys you will need to get that larger tank asap, or return them and find something more suited to your tank.

[2manyfish]

Many fish can survive a cycling tank but it's the damage you can't see that will shorten their life spans. Ammonia and nitrites are very damaging to gill tissues. These same chemicals can cause problems with their blood causing the fish to be more susceptible to other illnesses later on.

I have never used any of those instant cycle products so I can't say how well they actually work but the following is something I have done and it can very well save your fish.
If you do not want to sell your fish back to the store here is what you can do to help them survive the cycling process without harm to them. It is labor intensive so be honest with yourself!! If you cannot do this, really and truely cannot do this, then the best thing you can do is take your fish back to the store!

For the next two weeks you need to do a 25% water change every single day. Do NOT add salt, but make sure you add a dechlorinator and make sure the temp is closely matched to the tank's water.

After that for another two weeks do a 25% water change every other day. Again, no salt, dechlorinated temperature matched water.

After that for another week do a 25% water change every third day. Same procedure for the water.
Once the 5 weeks are done you can go ahead and just do once weekly water changes.

Again, this is labor intensive. If you don't have the time or inclination then take the fish back to the store.
If you decide to do this, make sure you get a bigger tank for your fish ASAP and switch all the gravel and filter media over to the bigger tank to avoid another cycling period!

[Lady Hobbs]

Good post!!!

[cocoa_pleco]

2manyfish, its great to have you. Youre a abundance of knowledge. Thanks for all the help!:thumb:

[Chrona]

Yes, I'm glad we have another SW expert now :thumb:

[2manyfish]

:41: Awww...gee...but I wouldn't call myself an expert on anything....maybe something more like 'somewhat experienced and an avid reader of all things fishy' would be more appropriate! :ezpi_wink1:

[cocoa_pleco]

youve nailed all my questions head on.

I think poor reptileguy needed a break from my overload of questions:ezpi_wink1:

thanks to the both of you

[DemonShark]

Ah ok well he showed me lol...

[Coler]

Ok Msstate (hi btw)

1. You need a test kit. Liquid drop is best. Avoid paper strips. API make a good kit. You will be testing ammonia and nitrite twice a day for the next week, and after a week or so you can start looking for nitrate, but this will probably take a couple of weeks to show up. Why, you ask ?

2. Fish waste 'is' ammonia. This (Ammonia) is toxic at detectable levels, a big problem for your fish at .25 ppm or higher. A type of bacteria will begin to feed on the waste and turn it to Nitrite. This is good news, but only half the problem, because Nitrite is just as bad, or some people will say worse, but it doesn't really matter. Because again, at detectable levels its toxic to your new buddies (cool fish btw) and at levels of .25ppm it is a serious problem. (btw You don't need to do anything to get these bacteria to begin to grow except have a source of Ammonia - you have plenty with that much fish in your tank). So what happens next ?

3. Bacteria number 2 will turn the Nitrite into Nitrate. Far less toxic to your finned friends. This can be left to about 20ppm (some will say 40 but I think 20 is ok; more will say 10 - this will be difficult to achieve with your fish - messy remember). When you have Nitrates you are almost cycled. When your Ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0 and you have Nitrates (in your case at a level of about 10 - 15 before a water change) you are cycled. The only way to remove Nitrates properly is water changes. So what do I do between now and then (could be 4 - 6 weeks) to stop my fish from becoming floaters, or, as has been sensibly pointed out above, suffering damage that will cause them pain or shorten their lives, you ask ?

4. Water changes. This is where you need your test kit. Test in the morning, test in the evening. If you have Ammonia/Nitrite at .25 or higher (and believe me you will) you need to change out about 30% water. No harm in doing more. It is quite possible with your 3 fish that you will need to do this morning and evening. Also, you may find that the ammonia (at first in particular) is 1ppm or more. You need to do 50% water change, and then another one right away back to back if this happens. Same if you get 1ppm or more Nitrite.

5. Heck, if you're just doing nothing at noon break out your test kit and have a look see; do a change if necessary.

6. So you're making a big committment to these fish; but if you don't follow through, I guarantee you that you will be back on here or elsewhere with threads asking about why your fish are breathing fast and hard, why they only hang out at the top/bottom of your tank or why they've started to get what look like little holes in their heads, and more. You still have the option of returning them and cycling fishlessly. This means using a different source of ammonia to fish faeces to get the bacteria going. You can use any pure form of ammonia. You can even use fish food. This can also take 4 weeks but is usually much quicker. It's a lot less work and a lot less stress, for you too.

7. What set-up are you running; post your filtration. This is also going to determine whether your fish live happily, simply exist, or die. You need major over filtration on that 55. I would suggest the water needs to be being turned over minimum 10 times per hour. Also regarding your set-up, put in an air-stone/bubble wand. Increased surface aeration will oxygenate your water more than otherwise (it increases the surface of the water available for gaseous exchange - the ripples). One of the major problems with spikes in Ammonia/Nitrite is that these toxins prevent the fish from getting sufficient oxygen. Running an air-stone/bubble wand could have a major impact on your fish survival during the cycle.

7. Msstate needs to do water changes as dictated by the production of waste and therefore Ammonia/Nitrite, and consequential development of biological cycle, not simply 25% per day, followed by less on a weekly basis. Also he needs to get a test kit and test twice daily. More if he discovers a love for playing with test-tubes and looking at coloured liquid :)

8. Msstate also needs to clarify whether he has adequate filtration in that 55. I would be interested to know what is running there now.

Msstate - you mentioned a step-dad who advised some salt (which by the way does help temporarily in cases of excess Nitrite; increases the fishes ability to absorb oxygen, but shouldn't be used long term for a plec. More than a week is long term). Any chance he would have some old filter sponges/other media for ya ? This would really help you out.

The people who said you need a 100 gallon tank in the near future, by the way, are dead right.

When your tank is cycled you can ease off on the water changes. In that 55 with those 3 fish I would think you will still be doing 30% 2times a week though. Hormones and other organic compounds also build up and have to be changed out. Anyone who says you don't need to cycle a tank is wrong...imo.

edited for typos

by the way I'm quite new - the above however makes sense to me from what I have managed to learn

[crackatinny]

The followong are Demonsharks words not mine, for some reason, they did not veiw as a QUOTE:

YAY me right?! I have found that cylcing is really not nessacary! Thats right! Just add some stress coat to the tank and it should be all ready. And if you ahve a bio filter add some cycle. Hope that helps![/quote]

And I say:

I have tried this with as hardy a fish as, Red Devil, Oscar and baba shark.

And DO NOT RECCOMEND THIS PROCEADURE, yes it may work?, but after my red devil got a liitle sluggish and sulky last night, I was up 4 times during the night checking him, I only done it due to bad overcrowding probs and emergency situation.

I think this is an irresponable comment on Demonsharks part (sorry demon, but you know me), and if he wants to bring up fish cycling, should do it on a MUCH bigger scale, like a full article on the pro's and con's

[Lady Hobbs]

Your write- up was excellent and thanks for contributing that to the board.

And yes, cycling is vital in fishkeeping. We post to newbies all day about it, write articles about it and constantly stress how important it is. We direct newbies to the Free E-Book to learn all about it, post links about it and also direct them to the short explanation of cycling in Tips for Newbies.

True......If you have a large tank and start with only a few fish, they will most likely be safe from the toxic levels. However, we still test to make sure those levels are safe and are prepared to do some water changes if they are not.

True.....same thing applies to smaller tanks but with only two or three small fish or throw-outs like feeders, dead shrimp or some very hardly fish.....usually zerba danio's. But once again, testing and water changes when they become necessary.....and most likely will be in smaller amounts of water.

True.....planted tanks that are HEAVILY planted and started with a few fish will most likely be fine and you'll see no toxic levels. The key word however is HEAVILY planted and a few fish.

True.....pure ammonia and no fish for cycling is another cyling method.

False...."Cycle" has been proven to be unsuccessful at much of anything.

Stress Zyme or other bio-aids may or may not help to speed up the cycling process. However, Bio-spira has been proven time and again to cycle a tank in two days. (This is where I was corrected) I thought that cycling was still necessary (short term) with it, but have found out I was wrong and it's not necessary to cycle with this product.

No matter how you do it, it's still cycling and still necessary unless you want a bunch of dead fish or diseased fish that barely made it and will have problems afterwards with a weaken immune system, ICK, fin rot, pop eye and whatever else.

Thanks again for your nice write up.

[crackatinny]

Thanks Hobb's, and well put.
But I have to disagree on 1 point, to me NO FISH are indespesable, I bring a fish home I love it from day 1, that is why I WILL NEVER USE FEEDER FISH, I am an animal lover 1st and foremost.

[Coler]

Thanks Hobbs. I was lucky enough to be able to do a lot of research before involving myself with actual fish and that's the best way I can describe what I believe to be the fishy cycle. I like to try and put out what little I know when I think it can help a fellow beginner.

I personally would not be critical of people who fish cycle; as long as you understand the committment you are making to testing and water changing, and follow through on it, it is not as horrible as people may make out.

I will also say this - when I set my tank up I did dose the tank with Cycle, and after a week, no fish, I had nitrite showing. I accept that this is out of line with the usual experience with Cycle.

The best cycle aid imo is used media. I was and am very lucky to have an excellent LFS - never a diseased fish outside a QT tank in sight - who gave me some :)

[Coler]

...in fact, I think the point about cycling is that you don't have a say in the matter, unless you choose fishless cycling.

Like it or not, you put fish in there, your tank will start to cycle. The issue is whether or not you are willing to make sure that the fish are not harmed. You can't stop the cycle, or choose 'not' to cycle. You can choose to look after your fish if you fish cycle.

[Lady Hobbs]

I am starting another cycle so have gone around doing a cleaning on all my tanks. Gotta steal that poop from all of them, you know. :) Here I thought I had invented my own thing! LOL I don't happen to have a nylon laying around to put some seeded gravel in but "our" way works just fine, I think. Got a very ucky used gob of floss in the filter and starting with the ammonia bit again and a touch of Stress Zyme.

I have noticed with Stress Zyme that too much makes for an algae bloom so you have to go by what told to add and no more than instructed. I "think" it helps but perhaps I just want it to since I have a full gallon of the stuff sitting here. Last time I cycled in this same manner it was about 6 days so we'll see.

I have cycled with fish many times. I find nothing wrong with it either as long as you are committed to the project before you. But to say NO cycling is necessary is incorrect.

Hey Crack......I personally have never used "throw away" fish for a cycle but know that some do. I just can't see it myself because I think they have a very difficult death. My luck they'd live and I'd be stuck with goldfish! :(

[Coler]

sounds good. I would also take some filter media from an established tank and squeeze it into an aquarium clean tray and then put my new tank sponge/media in and soak up as much mulm as possible.

[Drumachine09]

Hey Crack......I personally have never used "throw away" fish for a cycle but know that some do. I just can't see it myself because I think they have a very difficult death. My luck they'd live and I'd be stuck with goldfish! :(



You can ship them out to me! Theres always room for a goldie on my trotline!:hmm3grin2orange: :wink2: :hmm3grin2orange: :wink2:

[Rue]

...I love my goldfish :1luvu: ...I'm so excited about moving them to the new tank when it's ready...

[2manyfish]

...I love my goldfish :malelovies:

When I had to cut back on tanks, one of the tanks I gave away had a redcap and a calico fantail. Nice, nice fish!! The best part about this is I gave the tank and fish to one of my sons' friends so I get updates every now and then! :thumb:




However, Bio-spira has been proven time and again to cycle a tank in two days.

I've never tried the Bio-Spira but it's interesting to find out that it will cycle a tank in two days!!! Learn something new every day!!

[Lady Hobbs]

sounds good. I would also take some filter media from an established tank and squeeze it into an aquarium clean tray and then put my new tank sponge/media in and soak up as much mulm as possible.

I started that cycle just about 24 hours ago and have my nitrites already. This is a tried and true process that you and I do and I won't do it any other way now.

I ended up putting gravel from another tank in a filter bag and toss it in the back of my filter. (I have HOTB) Seasoned gravel on one side, ucky filter floss on another. Cleaned out two other tanks and let the water in the bucket sit to settle. Poured off top water and only added the bottom inch or so. Walla! Nitrites are not yet off the charts......reading of .25......but generally without doing it this way it would take several days. Last time I cycled like this it took me less than a week.