"Rescue" Angels - Need Advice

[EddyC]

I need some advice. A friend of mine is a teacher at the local elementary school. She's had a gorgeous 55-gallon tank set up in the corner rug for the entirety of her 3-year career, and all of her students love it. She was forced to take the tank down yesterday, because one of the PTA/PTO moms caused a stink and got the school board to ban pets from the classroom - on the basis that they pose a health risk due to allergies and carrying disease. This is all because her son - who's allergic to everything under the sun - was placed in this class. She's notorious in town for getting parties banned at school because her child is allergic to chocolate and wheat, and therefore can't have cupcakes or cookies. I sympathize with her, but she's taken this way too far. For one thing, the kids don't come in contact with the fish/tank, and therefore cannot contract any diseases (however unlikely that event would be). And you can't be allergic to fish - any allergy would be contact-based - that's why they have them in doctors' offices.

Anyway, ranting aside, she'd received notice of the new policy change and had made arrangements to set the tank up at her house. The problem is, yesterday morning a girl gave her two baby angelfish from her dad's spawn. Her tank is already overstocked because of her students, so she couldn't keep the angels, but took them anyway to spare the girl's feelings. She gave them to me, since she knows I'm a responsible fish keeper. Unfortunately, I'm also a college student, and only have a 36-gallon community set up. I was planning on getting an angel anyway, but now I'm concerned about having two. A tank my size can house one angel comfortably, but I'm not sure about two. Especially if they decide to be aggressive to each other. My tank is well-planted and they're only just bigger than a quarter, but I'm still concerned.

So, I need advice. Will this set up work? The other fish in the tank are: 3 ottos, 2 platies, a guppy, 5 cherry barbs, and 2 x-ray tetras (these are only temporary til my uncle gets his tank back up and running). The water quality is pristine (I do 2 changes a week), pH is 6.5-6.8 (sometimes I use tap, sometimes rain), and the temp is 76-80 (nights get cold here in MA and the temp drops a bit). Right now they get along perfectly and are inseperable, but they're still young. The smaller one's body size is just a hair bigger than a quarter and the other is about a quarter and a half. I'd like to keep the two, but not if they won't be cared for properly. I'm trying to plan ahead to prevent a problem in the future.

I've attached pictures of them (sorry for the quality - they wouldn't stop moving), so if anyone has any info to share about them, feel free.

Whew, that was a long post.

[rich311k]

If they are compatible they could easily live out their lives in your tank. Breeding pairs are kept in 29 gallon tanks all the time. I kept two angels in a 36 for several years and they did just fine and grew well. The one in my avatar is one of them. They are beautiful fish.

[Nobodynotime]

For now they will be alright. I'd keep them for the time being. It will be a while before they get too big for that tank and when they do you may have upgraded your tank or your teacher friends tank my have opened up some space. Or you can always sell them to your LFS if they have a policy like that which a lot do. So I'd say keep them (Plus they are really pretty fish and I'm partial to angel fish)

[Algenco]

they'll do fine, but I would keep an eye on the cherry barbs, they may nip at the Angels fins

[EddyC]

Wow, that was fast! Thanks for the replies. I figured they'd be alright, but when I started researching I found tons of horror stories of people having two males that terrorized each other after growing up together perfectly fine. These two seem to love my tank, and it'd be a shame to have to get rid of them. None of the LFSs closest to me will take in fish that weren't purchased from them, and even then usually only within a two-week period. None of my other friends have tanks, and selling online (like on craigslist) doesn't sit well with me because I want to make sure the fish are well taken care of. Hopefully they'll stay friendly.

On a side note, does anyone know what type (genetically) these two are? I'm awful at IDing phenotypes. I'll try to upload better pics later, after they've settled in more and will actually sit still.

[vegas2k]

my advice. dump that entire tank of water from that teacher's tank into the cabin of that bimbo's car

/end rant

[Sharon]

Honestly, that is a darn shame. Sounds like the school board is trying to ruffle no feathers which doesn't surprise me...Jeez, doesn't someone on the board care enough to realize the valuable experience this is for the children! :shrug: It makes me so glad I'm retired!!!

[EddyC]

Arlington is a very "yuppie" town - it's full to the brim with over-protective moms who sanitize their children's hands frequently and have them change clothes when they get home from school to keep them from tracking germs into the house. Of course that's a sweeping generalization, but as a student working toward a degree in Art Education I've had the chance to intern with at all of the public schools (I also went through the school system here), so I've become very familiar with the overall culture of the PTA/PTO parents. Sadly this woman holds a lot of clout with the school board - her family is very connected - so she can get away with a lot of crap like this. I really do sympathize with the difficulties having a child with severe allergies can present, but she's choosing to punish the other kids and that's not fair.

Ok, enough ranting from me. The angels seem to be doing fine. My teacher-friend came over to my house last night and burst into tears when she told her story. Then she handed me the tupperware container with the angels and just kinda left. My younger siblings go to the school she works at and were talking about how a lot of the kids and their parents are upset about her having to take the tank down, so maybe they might be able to change the school board's ruling.

Now I just need to figure out what kind of angels they are as far as phenotypes are concerned. I'm no good at telling the difference. Any ideas?

[celloplayer]

jeez, we have one of those kids in my high school. He is really annoying, his mother's the same as that guy's, too, but she probably has larger thighs, lol
Those are some really pretty fish. They look like gold marbles, but I'm pretty average when it comes to this stuff lol
(edit): the wiki page on angels has some good pictures, but I don't know about gold marbles

[EddyC]

They do look a lot like gold marbles, but they don't have any gold in them. The pictures I've seen of "regular" marbles have a lot more black than these guys do, and they don't seem as shiny. That's what I mean about me being bad at labeling them: I'm too critical. Darn my artist training! They look similar to a lot of different types, but not close enough for me to be sure. And the more sites I go to, the more confused I get. Well, here's another pic; had to bribe them with lettuce to get them to stay still long enough to take it. Out of 15, this is the only one that came out even remotely clearly. The second I take the picture, they have to move. I think the little light on my camera gives them enough warning to ruin my shot.

Oh, and I bet this woman could match yours in the thigh department. Picture an upside-down lightbulb with pigs-in-a-blanket for legs. That'll give you an idea of her proportioning. (Was that mean of me?):hmm3grin2orange:

(edit) These aren't the first angels I've had, just the first I've received from an unknown source. The other two I had I had for ten years. I got them when I was 8 from a breeder in the area and kept them in our old 55-gallon tank. Don't know why I'm so frazzled about these guys.

[Lady Hobbs]

I too think you will have no problem.

[EddyC]

Good. I'm glad people don't think I'll have a problem. I'll probably upgrade to a larger tank in the future, but that could be in a few years - so it wouldn't help if these two decide they don't like each other.

I found 2 pics that look kinda like mine.

The pic on the left here:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.](GmGm).htm

The third picture under the heading "Pearlscale Locus"
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]%20Locus

So they could be either gold or regular marbles. I can't tell which. At least I know they're pearlscale and veiltails (my friend thinks the smaller one is superveil, but I don't wanna confuse myself even more). And 2 out of 3 isn't bad.

(edit) Earlier I said there isn't any gold on them, but I was mistaken. There is some in the dorsal fin of the smaller one (you can kinda see it in the pic with both of them) and there's a tiny dot of gold right behind the dorsal fin of the other (you can see it in the pic of it eating lettuce). The bigger one also has a blue tint on one side of its head, and the other might too (it's hiding in the amazon sword so it's hard to tell cuz of the shadows). The more pictures of the different phenotypes I see, the more I see fish that look like mine labeled as a different type!

[bushwhacker]

just to confuse you a bit more.. i have 2 koi angels that look just like that

[EddyC]

Thanks a lot, Bushwacker!

I've e-mailed the Angelfish Society with the pics. Hopefully they'll identify their phenotype for me. Whatever they say I'll go with.

It doesn't really matter because I'm not trying to breed them (don't even know their sexes), but I'd like to know because I'm the kind of person who does a lot of research about the fish I want before (and after) getting them. Having this hole in my knowledge really bothers me.

I've also noticed that their pectoral fins are aimed upward and are really long. The smaller one's fins extend beyond the top of its head! Is this normal? My old angels had pectorals that were perpendicular to their bodies, like "regular" fish.

[EddyC]

Just an update, if anyone was still interested. Tamar Stevens got back to me:

Hi Eddy,
You asked an interesting question, and I can see why you aren't sure what they are. My best guess is that they are silver gold marbles. Both of them have a vertical black stripe through each eye, which tells me they have a wild type allele at the dark locus. The one that is looking in the lettuce leaf definitely has gold marble markings. The other one is a little hard to tell for sure whether it has broken stripes or gold marble markings on the body. It would help if I could see the other side. But I'm pretty sure they are both silver gold marbles with genotype Gm/+. They are also both veil tails, so that would give them genotypes: Gm/+ - V/+. If my guess is correct, then you should sometimes see some faint vertical stripes in the body as you would with a silver angelfish, and this striping might darken or fade depending on the mood of the fish, whereas the gold marble marking will not fade or brighten with mood.

So that's what I'll go with.

[bigbad-ratman]

it seems to me that problems with the schools arise fromt he parents these days.
congrats on your fish. they look like a nice adition to your tank.