Co2 bottle

[Drumachine09]

Back in the days when i had the time/money to go paintballing, i bought 3 paintball co2 tanks. I have 1 9oz, 1 12oz, and 1 20oz cylinders. I have found a fitting that i can control how much co2 is released. Is it possible that i could hook this up to my tank?

[cocoa_pleco]

yep. ive seen tanks with those.

Ive got tones of those from my paintball gun too

[xoolooxunny]

Yeah, I think I got a 7oz tank laying around here somewhere. How long do you think that would last? I'm seriously considering going to the beer store and getting a 5 or 10 lb cynlinder. If a 5 lb lasts a year like hobbs says, it might be worth the money compared to buying yeast/sugar and spending the time making the brew!

[cocoa_pleco]

go to a paintball store. I got a huge 2 litre sized one for 50$

[xoolooxunny]

go to a paintball store. I got a huge 2 litre sized one for 50$

Yeah I think the one at the beer place was a 10lb for about 60 bucks...but then you have to pay a deposit which you never get back bc you'd only take it to get refilled, not return it. How much does it cost to refill them?
Maybe I can keep that little 7oz on hand filled for when the big one runs low, and i have to take it off to fill it, i can then avoid a ph swing!

[Chrona]

You still need a regulator with a input and output pressure gauge + a needle valve. Regulators aren't precise enough to get it down to the certain bubble per minute accuracy you need. Not sure on the cost of this though, but I know Rex Grigg makes really good custom ones. Figure at least 60-70 bucks.

If you go full size pressurized, the tank costs about 70 bucks used, and the regulator + needle valve assembly is about 100+ dollars for a good one (just as you would not skimp and get a crappy filter, you do not want to get a crappy assembly as screwing up on pressurized CO2 is many many many times worse than screwing up your DIY fixture)


Rex Grigg's assemblies are very good, as are Milwaukee's.
http://www.rexgrigg.com/sale.html

Refill cost on a 10lb tank is something like 15-20 bucks. They will last a veeeery long time.

[cocoa_pleco]

i havent been paintballing or used my gun in a couple of years, but i think a small bottle is 5 bucks american and a big one 8-10$ on average in american dollars to fill

[Chrona]

i havent been paintballing or used my gun in a couple of years, but i think a small bottle is 5 bucks american and a big one 8-10$ on average in american dollars to fill

I'm talking full size tank, not a dinky paintball tank :P

[cocoa_pleco]

ohhhh, no idea then

[Drumachine09]

It cost me 3 dollars american to fill up my 20 oz

[xoolooxunny]

I think I'm gonna save up for a system after I pay my taxes this year. I know what I'll do. I'll go out and buy the gadgets and gizmos and learn how to use them one week, and wait for next paycheck to go get the tank. (I hate blowing large portions of a paycheck all at once, I like to spread the cost out over a few, so i can save more)

[Chrona]

I think I'm gonna save up for a system after I pay my taxes this year. I know what I'll do. I'll go out and buy the gadgets and gizmos and learn how to use them one week, and wait for next paycheck to go get the tank. (I hate blowing large portions of a paycheck all at once, I like to spread the cost out over a few, so i can save more)

Btw, don't order the Azoo one. Lot's of people having some issues with it. It's only like 30 bucks less in any case, so you may as well upgrade.

And of course, you need a new lighting fixture to go with pressurized CO2. It's kinda overkill with only 80 watts over 55g :)

[cocoa_pleco]

my azoo mini filter was good at least


The nutrafin co2 system is great too, just my set-up skills arent the best.

vancouver has 16% tax. what BS. We only have 6% here, but apparently the government is rallying for 0%

[Chrona]

my azoo mini filter was good at least


The nutrafin co2 system is great too, just my set-up skills arent the best.

vancouver has 16% tax. what BS. We only have 6% here, but apparently the government is rallying for 0%

Wait, the government is rallying for 0% tax? lol.....

[xoolooxunny]

Btw, don't order the Azoo one. Lot's of people having some issues with it. It's only like 30 bucks less in any case, so you may as well upgrade.

And of course, you need a new lighting fixture to go with pressurized CO2. It's kinda overkill with only 80 watts over 55g :)

It's a little worse than you state, its 80 watts over 75 gallons, and yes, compact fluorescents are in the budget too!

[Chrona]

It's a little worse than you state, its 80 watts over 75 gallons, and yes, compact fluorescents are in the budget too!

And perhaps a new substrate too? lolololol

[xoolooxunny]

And perhaps a new substrate too? lolololol

do you think I would need new substrate, or are you just pulling my leg??

[Chrona]

You are using Flourite currently right?

[xoolooxunny]

You are using Flourite currently right?

Um, a bag of aquarium sand over top of the substrate heater to help conduct the heat better since its just a zig zag or cables, and then a layer of eco complete on top of that, and then 2 bags of flourite on top of that.

oh and clams & MTS to keep it aerated/clean.

[Owen Stubbs]

Out of curiosity, why Flourite on top of eco-complete?

[xoolooxunny]

Out of curiosity, why Flourite on top of eco-complete?

Because eco-complete has calcium in it, and although it says it wont raise the ph, I wanted to give it a better chance of going to the plants than leeching out into the water. Second reason being that it already has live bacteria in it, and
I didn't want anymore black in the substrate that shows than the fluorite already had, so it all worked out in my favor. Nothing too in depth or overly scientific, just wanted 2 high quality plant substrates.

[cocoa_pleco]

yep. Alberta is trying to get 0% tax. hope it passes

[Chrona]

Well, as I have no experience with either Ecocomplete or ADA Aquasoil, I'll just post what I've found.

Flourite does not grow most carpet plants well (thick) - personal experience has showed this too. My dwarf hairgrass can't penetrate the stuff with it's side shoots. It is also kinda light in color, which doesn't look that great against lightly colored plants. Also makes a mess whenever you do anything in the tank.

Flourite is inert - makes it real easy to use, but it's somewhat lacking in the organics department. The traditional planting medium, and a significant step up from sand or gravel (though some people will use enriched sand in a high tech tank for the look)

Ecocomplete is the next step up. Grains are much more conducive to carpet plants, and you are able to grow stuff like Hemianthus callitrichoides. Plus some mumbo jumbo about the bacteria that comes with it being able to break down nutrients for the plants faster. Ecocomplete costs more and is packaged in water (which would normally not matter, but it's sold by weight....lol) Not sure of the exact composition of this stuff, but I believe it's inert as well since it doesn't seem to effect water chemistry (save for the occasional bag that contains, for some reason, lots of calcium that raises your pH)

ADA Aquasoil. I think like 80% of plantedtank uses this stuff. Softens water and lowers kH, particularly in the actual substrate. The acidic/soft water (caused by humic acid from some of the substrate decomposing) increases the ability of plants to intake nutrients a lot.

Problem with Aquasoil is it's entirely organic. You'll have ammonia spikes for the first 1-3 weeks (along with some cloudiness). Some people who add it to their established tank let it "cycle" in another tank before adding it. The first month or so will be hellish, as things settle down, but it's pretty much unanimous that the stuff is AMAZING afterwards. Apparently, it holds nutrients just as well/if not better than Flourite, but it makes much more of it available to plants.

Problem with Aquasoil is that it's imported from Japan. Cost per 9 liter bag is like 25-30 bucks (online) but is VERY difficult to find as there are not many distributors. (I think only one main distributor in the US actually....)

http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=afa_product&cPath=12_21


Whew, hope that helps.

[xoolooxunny]

yeah, one of my lfs set up a separate tank for plants so they can get some proper care, and i think thats what they use. It looks like little brown bead or something, various small sizes? How is that with carpet plants? and could i just add it to my tank, or should i take some flourite out, leaving mostly eco-complete/sand?

[Chrona]

yeah, one of my lfs set up a separate tank for plants so they can get some proper care, and i think thats what they use. It looks like little brown bead or something, various small sizes? How is that with carpet plants? and could i just add it to my tank, or should i take some flourite out, leaving mostly eco-complete/sand?

No idea how it would work to be honest. Changing from gravel to Flourite in a 10g was already a PITA. Changing it in an established 75g is just "lol" I don't think the difference between Eco and Flourite is enough to justify it. Flourite and Aquasoil on the other hand.....

Even with Flourite, you can grow nice carpet plants like marsilea hirsuta. Just takes a little longer an a bit more patience with replanting.

I think you would have to take either the sand or the Flourite layer out though. Just topping it with Eco would leave the sand way too deep, even if you do have MTS. Plus, I'd imagine it'd look funny....lol

[xoolooxunny]

hold on, i already have eco & fluorite. The sand is on the very bottom, its not the special kind, just a heat conductor. Let me rephrase. would I benefit from replacing the fluorite with the ADA, leaving the eco/sand on the bottom?

[Chrona]

Not sure how well that would work. I haven't seen anyone with a mixed AS/something substrate yet. You can ask around on plantedtank.net though. As I said, I don't have any personal experience with AS :)

[xoolooxunny]

Not sure how well that would work. I haven't seen anyone with a mixed AS/something substrate yet. You can ask around on plantedtank.net though. As I said, I don't have any personal experience with AS :)
Yeah, thats a good idea, i've browsed around there a couple times from your links. if all else fails, we are looking at a complete tank breakdown here!

[Chrona]

Yeah, thats a good idea, i've browsed around there a couple times from your links. if all else fails, we are looking at a complete tank breakdown here!

Be careful you don't catch the bug. The guys over there seem to break down and redo their tanks every two month or so.... :rolleyes:

[xoolooxunny]

Be careful you don't catch the bug. The guys over there seem to break down and redo their tanks every two month or so.... :rolleyes:

Every 2 months is out of control, I would never have time for that! Like I said, breaking down would be the ultimate last resort, but if i'm putting a lot of money and effort into the lighting and co2, who knows what lay ahead!

[Chrona]

I would say just stick with the lighting + CO2 for now. You don't want to be adding all those factors at the same time in a tank with fish. I put in CO2, new lights, new substrate, fertilization regime, all in the timespan of two weeks. Luckily, I got off pretty easy in that nothing died (lol) but I fought (and am still fighting) some real nasty issues I never had with a low tech setup.