I really need help...

[Hailey]

I'm going crazy trying to sex my Bolivian rams! I now sort of think I have a male and female...I thought i had two males.

Now the third ray on the top fin of the male is really long. I can even tell when thier not spead out and laying down. Now on the other ram, its not near as tall, but it is raised a tiny bit. Is that normal for a female? I think so...

Also on the male, he has extensions on his tail, not huge, but definite. Not so on the other ram.

Now the thing that is really stumping me are the breeding tubes! I really cant tell which is which. The males looks like it could be females, and the others, possible female, looks like a male tube. But I'll explain more on that later...

Also females get blue "spangles" in their black spot on their bodys, and I cant tell on the possible female. Its spot is not a definite spot, more like two spots, with a tiny bit of possible blue spangles. The male on the other hand has a solid spot.

Behavior...
At first they were always together, coming into a new tank and all, but now the male(?) chases the other one, but not far away at all, and especially when theres food. Sometimes they still swim together and hang out in a corner together too...Like right now...

What should I be watching for?

So thats what I have to say for now. I will be putting up some more recent pics up soon, they have coloured up better too.
I can get to the pet store tomorrow so I was going to grab another two, trying for females also.

Edit:
Here are some really bad pics, lol, sorry, but this is the possible female...
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[Lab_Rat]

Hard to tell from those pics, can you get better pics?

Here's a good website on sexing bolivians: [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]/sexing-guide/4528902946

[Hailey]

oh, horrid pics, I know, lol, umm I have other pics here also...
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And great site, thanks!

Im thinking more and more I have a male female pair!

[rlkramer1]

Hi Hailey,

I just got a pair of EB Rams last week. I know they are male/female because they spawend yesterday (eggs are all gone, loaches look happy).

On the female, the 3rd dorsal ray is just a tad higher than the others.

Behavior, they were together all the time for the first 3 or 4 days. Then for a day or so he chased her off everytime he saw her. Then they were hidding in the water sprite, evidently having made up. Then, after being in the tank for only 6 days, they spawned. So behavior sounds ok.

I've been very confused on the whole breeding tube thing. So instead of listining to all the articles I've read, I did my own study.

First, the female's breeding tube is fairly obvious when your just casually observing the aquarium (I'm in my mid 40's and the 20/20 is the first thing that goes). To see it on the male I have to squint. Second, on the female, the tube has a distinct funnel or conical shape, i.e. it breaks at a distinct 45 deg angle and quickly goes down to a conical tip at 90 deg. The male's tube tapers much more slowely. There is no 'break' or angle, just a soft taper, down to a much sharper point, probably around 40 or 45 deg.

See the attached photos. I hope this helps.

[Hailey]

Thanks for all the help!!! The pics are great! Its hard to find the breeding tube pics, lol. I'll go study again and use that as a guide, see if it helps.

So it seems now they are almost never apart. Their colouring up nicer too!

So I am now 89% sure that I have a male and female. I'm 99% sure about the male, and about 80% sure the other one is a female. The only thing that is still getting me is the breeding tubes!

I cant really tell them apart, except the males slants back more. To me, they almost have the same tubes, but I think its just hard to tell cause their still pretty small. The tubes on these fish are making me mad! lol

Like the males tube, looks female-ish to me. And well so does the possible females...If it wasnt for the tubes, I would be 99.9% sure (untill they spawned) that they were male/female!

[Hailey]

Hi Hailey,

I just got a pair of EB Rams last week. I know they are male/female because they spawend yesterday (eggs are all gone, loaches look happy).

On the female, the 3rd dorsal ray is just a tad higher than the others.

Behavior, they were together all the time for the first 3 or 4 days. Then for a day or so he chased her off everytime he saw her. Then they were hidding in the water sprite, evidently having made up. Then, after being in the tank for only 6 days, they spawned. So behavior sounds ok.

I've been very confused on the whole breeding tube thing. So instead of listining to all the articles I've read, I did my own study.

First, the female's breeding tube is fairly obvious when your just casually observing the aquarium (I'm in my mid 40's and the 20/20 is the first thing that goes). To see it on the male I have to squint. Second, on the female, the tube has a distinct funnel or conical shape, i.e. it breaks at a distinct 45 deg angle and quickly goes down to a conical tip at 90 deg. The male's tube tapers much more slowely. There is no 'break' or angle, just a soft taper, down to a much sharper point, probably around 40 or 45 deg.

See the attached photos. I hope this helps.

So I studied, and I'm going to have to keep studying. I'm about 98% sure now that their male and female. The tube pictures there really helped! Thanks!