Advice About Dwarf Cichlid Selection & Tank

[Deleted User]

Hi --

My husband and I are planning to set up a tank for dwarf cichlids and another one for some kind of larger ones.

I think over our mantle (mock fireplace) would be a good place for a 30 gallon tank (we will use a larger tank for full size ones).

What types of dwarf cichlids would do well in a 30 gallon tank? Could you all advise me if you were setting up a 30 gallon tank for dwarf cichlids, what you would place in it? Like recommended stocking lists would be wonderful if you have the time to steer me.

I've ordered quite a few books this afternoon about regular and dwarf cichlids, but know that you all with hands on experience can be the best teachers.

Thanks a lot,
Jill

[rich311k]

Most wopuld like a nicely planted tank with caves and tangles of driftwood. You can choose apistos, rams, kribs there are others as well. Tetras and cory cats make good companions. I would do a pair or a trio in a 30 gallon.

[Deleted User]

Thank you for the guidance thumbs2:

[Lab_Rat]

I agree with a planted tank. I would go for a pair of rams (bolivians are hardier than GBR and are very beautiful) or a trio of apistos. Checkerboard or keyhole cichlids could work nicely too. For schooling fish, cardinals, rummynose, or neons would all work nicely. If you prefer a deeper bodied tetra those would work too. A school of cories, if you have the proper substrate, would be a nice addition.

Have you read Dave's primer on dwarf cichlids? It's full of great information here: [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Deleted User]

Thank you!

Is it okay to put Mollies in with these fish?

[Lab_Rat]

Mollies tend to like harder water than the SA fish prefer. That being said, most are tank bred in all sorts of water types so it's worth a try. They're not going to hurt any of the dwarf cichlids and the dwarfs will provide excellent fry control.

If you do start to have issues with the mollies it's likely they need a bit of salt in their tank and harder water. Usually I don't recommend salt but mollies are one of the few fish that can go from freshwater to brackish if acclimated properly.

[Deleted User]

Thank you!!!

[Deleted User]

What do you all think of using a school zebra danios to help cycle the tank (will also be using a sponge from the filter of one of my goldfish tanks)? Will they get along okay with the GBR's?

Of the fish we are keeping, the zebra danios seem to be about industructible. And, while they are not my all time favorite to look at, they're not too hard on the eyes and small enough they maybe aren't too big a drain on the tank (?).

Thanks!

[rich311k]

It should be fine. Their constant motion may drive the GBRs nuts, but I think it will be fine.

[Lab_Rat]

I personally am against cycling with fish. You can use the sponge filter and do a very quick fishless cycle by adding ammonia. With the used media the cycle shouldn't take more than a couple of days and then you know you have a ton of bacteria and can start stocking a little more aggressively. This is what I do each time I set up a new tank. When you go from 5ppm ammonia to none overnight you know you have a great biofilter going.

[Deleted User]

I was planning to have the aquarium running for a few days with the sponge from one of my goldfish tanks before adding the zebra danios. Is this an okay and humane way to do it?

From what I've been reading, the GBR's are more delicate and I was wanting to have the tank cycled and containing some hardy fish (was thinking maybe the zebra danios and some cories?) for a couple of weeks before adding the GBR's.

Is this an okay and humane (and wise?) way to do it? Or is there a better plan? I want to have 2 pairs of GBR's as the main fish, but am a little "scared" of them if they're on the fragile side. Trying to do it all as right as possible.

Thanks!

[Lab_Rat]

As long as you want the danios in your final stocking plan (or have somewhere else for them to go) then using the sponge filter instantly cycles the tank and they should be ok. What I like about my method with the quick cycle is I know how much ammonia the biofilter can take care of at that time. Like with my 29g, it went from 6ppm ammonia to 0ppm overnight. I was very confident adding 9 rummynose, an SAE, a platy, and a 4"+ gourami at once with that biofilter. Never saw an ammonia spike or nitrites.

Definitely add the GBR last as they are very sensitive. What other fish are you planning on adding?

[thatcichlidguy]

Hey Jill

I hope your mantle is pretty strong, cause putting that tank on it could otherwise be a diaster waiting to happen. Your asking it to hold roughly 260 pounds long term. Depending on how it's ancored to your wall, it may not hold. Also this is going to make tank maitenance a pain in the butt due to it's height. It would certainly look nice but probably isn't the best place for it.

If your using an established filter from another tank, then you don't have much to worry about cycling wise. There could be an initial bump but nothing that's should be a real issue. Personally i'd use fish that your going to have in your final stock. That way you don't have to move any fish around once your confident to start stocking this tank with it's permanent residents.

Rams and Apistos are the current kings of the dwarf cichlid world and deservedly so. They are beautiful fish and well suited to most "community" tanks. There are however many other dwarf species . Laetacara, Nannacara, Cleithracara, Taeniacara, Dicrosus, and more. These genus have many species that are well suited to life in a community setup, and offer a bit more variety in your stocking options. Just food for thought.

[rlkramer1]

I have a 29 set up with a pair of electirc blue rams. The tanks only been set up 6 weeks, the rams have been in their 4 weeks. I've had 5 java loaches in their for 5 weeks (a week after set up) and I've had a dozen cardinal tetras in their for about 10 days now.

All of these are supposed to be very sensitive fish, not recommended for new setups. I'm having absolutly no problem, in fact, the EBRs have already spawned. Something must be right.

A lot of people don't understand how plants affect the cycle. If you're going to have a planted tank, use it to your advantage.

Set up a tank with a substrate made for plants, yes, it's fairly expensive, but very worth it. Provide 2-3 wattes of light per gallon for 10-12 hours a day. Plant the tank with an abundance of fast growing plants. Use mechanical filtration, no chemical filtration, and do not overdo biological filtration. Add the fish. You'll never be able to detect NH3 or NO2-. I have friends who add the fish they day after they set up a new tank and never have a problem, never detect NH3. I usually like to wait a little while to make sure the plants grow, that I like the landscaping, get past the brown algea and such, but I don't worry about NH3.

[Deleted User]

The mantle should hold it really well. It is actuall an artificial fireplace that is part of the wall. It goes to the ground so isn't like a shelf hanging on the wall. But, yes, if it came down that would be a disaster. It should be plenty strong enough, though.

As for stocking, PLEASE everyone feel free to give me advice. I would like 2 pairs of the GBR's. Other than that -- you all please help! I probably want to get a couple bristlenose albino placos from the guy who I'm getting the GBR's from but other than that -- tell me what you all would do. I'd appreciate it!

[thatcichlidguy]

Your probably maxed out on cichlids with 2 pairs. Maybe three if you are carefull with the aquascaping , but that's pushing it. As for the rest of the stock, the BN pleco (I'd only go with one since they can push 6") should be fine. Everything else is a matter of taste , but cardinals , black neons, serpaes, emperors , or just about any other tetra that stays relatively small will be fine. I'd stay away from cories though since there will be conflict between them and the territorial rams. Rams are actually decent scavengers in their own right. No need to overdo that angle , since you're already going to have the pleco.

[Lab_Rat]

You're talking the 30g right? The 36" footprint and not a 29g with a 30" footprint? Because the stocking will vary between these two options.

If you're getting the 30g (36" footprint) you might be ok with two pairs of GBR. They are cichlids though, you may have to come up with a backup plan in case the two pair don't get along. If you're talking a 29g with a 30" footprint I'd limit it to a single pair.

I would go with a school of rummynose, cardinals, or black neons as a schooling fish. Probably about 8-10 of them. Also, some smaller cories would fill out the bottom nicely (6+ of them). You mentioned zebra danios before, so if you prefer those over the tetras then go with them.

My final stocking plan for my 29g planted is as follows:
2 bolivian rams (1m/1f)
1 apisto (she killed off the other apistos so I went with rams instead, I may change her to another tank later)
9 rummynose tetras
8 skunk cories
1 platy (random one from another tank)
1 SAE

Tank is heavily planted and I do weekly 40% or so water changes, have 2 HOB filters.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the input. Yes, the tank is 36". The filter I had wanted to use for it just came today. We will set it up this evening or over the weekend, taking the sponge from one of the goldfish tanks to help it cycle fast.

I may go with the zebra danios over tetras, but not sure. They're not my favorite fish but the tetras (at least in neon form) have seemed kind of fragile in my care.

Are any of the recommended tetras (that might be prettier than zebra danios) hardier than neons?

Thanks again! You all are great!!!

[Deleted User]

Oh DUH! Correction -- my husband just measured it and it must be only 29g as it is 30" long. So sounds like just one pair of the GBR's :(

Can you help revise the list? Is there any other "interesting" (bigger than tetra) fish that could co-exist well with the 2 GBR's in the tank and be more interesting than just GBR's, tetras, BNP / cories?

PS what is an SAE?

[thatcichlidguy]

Siamese algea eater.

My experience with most tetras is that they are generally quite hardy, but I agree that neons are kinda flakey. I believe the majority on the market today are still wild caught , so that may explain some of that.

I think you still have a shot at two pairs of rams provided you carefully aquascape the tank into two distinct territories with lots of plants drift wood and rocks. lots of small schooling fish to keep the two pairs occupied with something besides fighting each other as well. One pair is probably the safest bet though.

hatchet fish are an interesting fish, still a tetra but very interesting. You might also consider another species of dwarf ciclid. Laetacara are a very peacefull fish that occupies the mid water area and gets just a bit bigger than the rams. The two shouldn't have much conflict since they don't really compete for territory. The rams would win anyway.

[Lab_Rat]

Honestly, since this is going to be your first experience with cichlids, I would stick with just a single pair of rams in the 29g. Cichlids are a pita to deal with when they do not get along, you need to always have a backup plan and imo, two pair in a 29g is asking for trouble. I'm limiting my stocking to a lone pair in my tank.

As far as hardiness goes, neons can be weak. The black neons look really cool and tend to be much hardier. I'm really liking my rummynoses too, this is the first time I've kept them.

So for your stocking I would do:
1 pair of dwarf cichlids
8 or so tetras or danios
6-8 cories of the smaller variety
maybe 1 bristlenose plec if you want one

[Deleted User]

Sounds good! I'm scared if I try two pair and it doesn't work -- then where do I put 1 pair to separate them. I will look up pictures of the recommended tetra types and see if I like them or zebras better...

And we just set up the aquarium that will hold them. I thought Harvey would balk and want to do it another day but he was agreeable and it's up and going now. It looks awesome but, of course, empty. I don't know what's worse... an empty stall in the barn or an empty aquarium!

[Deleted User]

Are a couple of gourami fish a possibility in this tank? W/ 1 pair of GBR's, 8 or so zebra danios, some cories and an ablino bristlenose pleco?

I have three tanks with combinations of tetras, platies, etc. in it and am wanting something different...

[Lab_Rat]

Not a couple of gourami, but a lone gourami may be a possibility. And not one of the Trichogaster trichopterus (3 spot, gold, blue, opaline, platinum, lavender) because they are too aggressive and get too big. Moonlight and kissing gourami also get too big. A dwarf, honey, or maybe a pearl could work. Just realize you're starting to push the bioload and GBR are not forgiving if their water quality slips a bit. If I were you I wouldn't do it at this stage, maybe in a year or two when you have more experience you can try pushing the bioload a bit.

[thatcichlidguy]

Just a thought, With the sponge and a seperate filter, that tank will have plenty of capacity for bio-load. I do agree that a single pair of rams is the safest bet , just saying it's doable. 1 pair of rams and a single Laetacara also very doable and not likely to erupt into conflict. I still think the cories are gonna drive the rams nuts with their constant foraging into the rams turf.
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Rummy nose tetras are a good bet here too. Interesting tidbit is that the color of the nose is a good indicator of water quality.