Baby Green Puffer in Teeny-Tiny Tank?

[Juniper]

Hey Guys,

I'm new to the forums, but I've been lurking here for quite some time (and keeping fish for more than a decade).

Two weeks ago, my LFS was giving away puffers because they had an ich outbreak, so I "rescued" a tiny little green puffer who is about 1 inch in length. I've never kept any kind of puffer before. She had a single ich spot on her tail, but it's gone now (see below). I can't afford a big tank for her right now, so I moved her into a well-cycled, densely planted 3 gallon tank that I'd been using to raise feeder guppies.

I gave her a round of Jungle Ich Treatment II and about 1 tsp of table salt per gallon. I've never kept brackish before, but my understanding is that puffers need table salt, not aquarium salt. I didn't want to overdo it since she's been raised in freshwater until now. I've been feeding her snails and frozen brine shrimp. She's getting 50% water changes twice weekly. I hope to switch it to once-weekly when she's settled in and has been ich-free for a few more weeks.

My question is... how long is she going to be okay in a 3 gallon tank? I know that these tanks are really not appropriate for any adult fish except anabantids. How quickly do green puffers grow when they're thriving?

I'm going to be moving to a new house in about 6 months, and I've already got a 55 gallon tank and 3 nano tanks to worry about moving.
I'd like to try and keep her in the 3 gallon until we're settled in at the new house. Can she make it six months in this size tank? Does anyone else have experience keeping baby puffers in very small tanks?

My water is moderately hard and the ammonia and nitrate levels are extremely low. The tank has no heater because it's so small, but it's kept in my "fish room" which always stays over 70 degrees.

Please don't wag the finger at me and tell me that 3 gallons is too small for an adult puffer-- I get that. I just need to know how long it could work.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Northernguy]

I have never kept them but I will give this a bump so others will see it.
I have no idea how fast they grow!

[kaybee]

...I "rescued" a tiny little green puffer who is about 1 inch in length...

I'm going to make the assumption it is a green spotted puffer (GSP).


...my understanding is that puffers need table salt, not aquarium salt...

More accurately they require marine salt (typically used for saltwater tanks). If it came down between table salt and aquarium salt, I'd select aquarium salt, but marine salt is what's actually ideal.


...My question is... how long is she going to be okay in a 3 gallon tank? I know that these tanks are really not appropriate for any adult fish except anabantids. How quickly do green puffers grow when they're thriving?

Growth rate will vary and is likely dependent on a variety of variables. I'd recommend upgrading as soon as possible. While growth rate typically isn't fast, these are active swimmers with high-bioloads. I personally wouldn't go smaller than a 10gal for a 1" GSP, and would recommend upgrading to a 29gal prior to the 2" mark.


Can she make it six months in this size tank?

If upgrading to a 10gal isn't possible, it should theoretically make it, it would be very far from ideal, though. In 6 months, under ideal conditions, it may put on 0.25" to 0.5".


My water is moderately hard and the ammonia and nitrate levels are extremely low.

Hopefully, in the case of ammonia, extremely low means "undetectable". If you're able to keep water quality high and nitrates below 20ppm, it might work, it won't be happy though.

Strictly going by the size of the fish, the GSP shouldn't 'outgrow' the 3gal in 6 months. However, GSP's are very curious and inquisitive and seem to need interaction. A 3gal doesn't grant much room to explore or provide enough mental stimulation for them.

The priority in a 3gal would be to maintain good water quality.

[smaug]

I keep a figure 8 puffer.The growth rate is likely the same as your fish.I have had mine for about 3 months now and he has gotten about 1/2" longer.They are as mentioned very active and may develop behaviour problems if kept in the small tank.That said,if that is what you have to keep him in and you do a good job of water changes and testing he will be healthy if kept that way for 6 months.Dont go everboard with the marine salt at first,introduce it very slowly at a rate of 1/4 tbs per gallon during water changes,increase that an xtra 1/4 tbs evry week till you are at a rate of 2 tbs per gallon.It has not seemed to be picky enough ime to need a salinity meter or hydrometer,although I do have one it has never registered more then .010 at the correct temp.Good luck with him and keep in in mind that the my advice is from limited experiance.

[jscurrier]

Too funny, was just picturing a puffer fish hanging out on the corner smoking a cigarette and swearing (behavior problems). Thanks for the smile. :hmm3grin2orange:

[smaug]

Too funny, was just picturing a puffer fish hanging out on the corner smoking a cigarette and swearing (behavior problems). Thanks for the smile. :hmm3grin2orange:
Glad I could help:sconfused: I was thinking more of glass walking constantly.

[Juniper]

I'm going to make the assumption it is a green spotted puffer (GSP).


Your assumption is correct.



More accurately they require marine salt (typically used for saltwater tanks). If it came down between table salt and aquarium salt, I'd select aquarium salt, but marine salt is what's actually ideal.



Online information is so variable... I went with the advice of a book that I have that was published in the 70s, it suggests 2 teaspoons of non-iodized table salt per quart of water for adults. I did much less than that since she's a baby and accustomed to FW. What I used was technically non-iodized sea salt (just table salt from the ocean), but it's chemically going to be pretty much the same as regular sodium chloride.

I've never kept brackish or salt before, please excuse my extreme ignorance-- what IS the difference between marine salt and aquarium salt?




Growth rate will vary and is likely dependent on a variety of variables. I'd recommend upgrading as soon as possible. While growth rate typically isn't fast, these are active swimmers with high-bioloads. I personally wouldn't go smaller than a 10gal for a 1" GSP, and would recommend upgrading to a 29gal prior to the 2" mark.

If upgrading to a 10gal isn't possible, it should theoretically make it, it would be very far from ideal, though. In 6 months, under ideal conditions, it may put on 0.25" to 0.5".



Errrgh... I think I may move her to my 5-gallon and move my two dwarf gourami into the 3-gallon (after eliminating the salt, obviously). That would be overcrowded for them, but she may need the space more than they do.

You said that growth rate depends on a variety of variables-- I assume that nitrates and ammonia are a key factor. Will the GSP's growth be stunted by being in a small tank?




Hopefully, in the case of ammonia, extremely low means "undetectable". If you're able to keep water quality high and nitrates below 20ppm, it might work, it won't be happy though.



There was a trace amount of ammonia this morning, so I did a 50% change and now it's undetectable. Nitrates are at about 10 ppm. The tank is DENSELY planted, so that's helping some with the high nitrate load.



Strictly going by the size of the fish, the GSP shouldn't 'outgrow' the 3gal in 6 months. However, GSP's are very curious and inquisitive and seem to need interaction. A 3gal doesn't grant much room to explore or provide enough mental stimulation for them.


I know that it's far from ideal. I'm switching the ornaments around daily to make things interesting. I've also got my halfmoon betta adjacent to the GSP's tank. That seems to help a little with stimulation for both of them-- my HM has been flaring at the GSP and the GSP likes to watch him. Any suggestions on making feeding time more interesting?

I feel terrible about not providing a better home, but the alternative would be for the GSP to be flushed along with the other ich-exposed fishies. The fact that the GSP recovered from the ich means that it must not be doing TOO badly in its new home.


The priority in a 3gal would be to maintain good water quality.

I'll certainly be religious about that. I'd hate to buy a 10-gallon aquarium only to need an upgrade in a few months (I'm on a crazy-tight budget). What I'll probably do is switch my tanks so that my two dwarf gourami are sharing the 3-gallon and the GSP gets their 5-gallon tank.

[Juniper]

I keep a figure 8 puffer.The growth rate is likely the same as your fish.I have had mine for about 3 months now and he has gotten about 1/2" longer.They are as mentioned very active and may develop behaviour problems if kept in the small tank.That said,if that is what you have to keep him in and you do a good job of water changes and testing he will be healthy if kept that way for 6 months.Dont go everboard with the marine salt at first,introduce it very slowly at a rate of 1/4 tbs per gallon during water changes,increase that an xtra 1/4 tbs evry week till you are at a rate of 2 tbs per gallon.It has not seemed to be picky enough ime to need a salinity meter or hydrometer,although I do have one it has never registered more then .010 at the correct temp.Good luck with him and keep in in mind that the my advice is from limited experiance.

Thanks for your help. I'm also chuckling about the "behavior" problems. :hmm3grin2orange: He's going to start defying my authority and having tantrums... just like my seventeen-month-old daughter. :) How big was your F8 when you got him? I think that they only grow to about half the adult size of a GSP.

ETA: What is "glass walking"?

[terrapin24h]

WRT to whole brackish water thing, there are actually more than one species of puffer often labeled as GSP. Looky here:

http://puffernet.tripod.com/confusion.html
http://www.greenspottedpuffer.net/
and here:
http://www.pufferfish.net/

as you can see, according to the top site your puff may not need brackish water at all. However, thus far every puffer i have seen in a store has been of the brackish water variety, so it is probably safe to assume yours is too. DO NOT use table salt or aquarium salt--you must use marine salt. If your tank is cycled already, raise the SG("salt level") slowly to give your biological filter a chance to adjust. Raise it too fast and you shock it and your puff. The best thing to do would be to get the SG at the level and then cycle the tank fishless-ly, i would think. We have been flirting heavily with getting a puff, so i've been researching things pretty deep and found those sites above. hth

--chris

[truckin35]

as the other guy says raise the salt level and you need marine salt. aquarium salt does nothing read the book on this site it will explain more. i had two of these puffers and i was converting my tank as i was tol 0.002 every week and both died. i say try less then 0.002 like 0.001 every week