75g of a whole lot of trouble! HELP Please! [Archive]

thatcichlidguy

08-10-2009, 12:35 AM

With the exception of the Severum, those are all fairly aggressive species, and their all being housed in a 4' tank. You didn't mention how big these fish are but I'm going to assume that their all big enough that your 75 is starting to get small. it's only going to get worse too.4 of the fish you have now are going to get big enough that the 75 would be suitable for them individually only . Getting rid of one or two of them will only delay the inevitable. That would be the JD RD or GT killing every one else in its tank. The Sev can hold its own but will fall as well down the road. Any one of those kept solo (wet pet) would be fine , just not all together. What you'll need to do (apart from buying a 200+ gallon tank) is to pick the one you like best and rehome / trade the rest. You'll save yourself a lot of problems that way.

rich311k

08-10-2009, 12:37 AM

Which fish is causing the problems?

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 12:54 AM

Well that is the thing i have no idea what i should keep well i have decided that my red devil and jd got to go so it is between the gt Firemouths and severum

thatcichlidguy

08-10-2009, 04:17 AM

The FMs only grow to around 6" or so, the GT and Sev can grow to 10" easy and both could grow a bit bigger than that. The Sev will be friendlier , the GT will be more impressive looking. The RD will get big and be very personable. The JD will be a big boring lump . Personally I'd keep the RD since if your gonna be stuck with one big fish I'd want one that has some personallity and attitude . Then again I'm a little biased since I keep one as a wet pet.

Demjor19

08-10-2009, 05:36 AM

thatcichlidguy

08-10-2009, 01:49 PM

Id keep the Sev and Firemouths. they are both fairly passive (for SA cichlids. The RD is awesome, but you will likely be stuck with only him in the tank. They are a nice fish, but not worthy of a tank to themselves (in my opinion). In fact I just sold my RD for the same reason. At 8" he tried to take over my 180! LOL!
Sevs can be pasive , FMs can be a handfull (and are Central American) . In a 75 they'd be fine Plenty of room for them. I think what is being missed is that the Green Sev has potential to grow to 12". That's a big fish for a 75 with tankmates as rowdy as Firemouths.

They don't get the name Red Devil for nothing LOL. They make great wet pets , mine has more personality than my dog. Not worthy of their own tank:axechase: , that's just silly.

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 01:55 PM

Out goes the RD. It's a nice species, just not really special enough to have its own tank. FMs can be very, VERY different in behavior, one as peaceful as a GBR, and another meaner than spit. I'd watch those two very carefully if you decide to keep them. If not, then that opens a heck of a lot of options for other fish with the severum. Oh, that too. I wouldn't keep the GT, it's just not worth the trouble. The severum can and eventally will color up for you. If I were you, I would get rid of everything else except the severum, and then start looking at options for other fish to go with it, since the severum is fairly peaceful for its size.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 02:05 PM

Well idk what to do haha i really like the firemouths and they are full of charachter. hahaha Well when i get rid of them i am thinking about changing the big tank to a convict and i am getting a new one in sept. and then i will make that the severum tank it is 55 gallons is that too small

lg0815

08-10-2009, 03:38 PM

get rid of the jd gt and red devil and the firemouth and severum shouldnt be that mean to each other thumbs2: thumbs2:

lg0815 :22:

lg0815

08-10-2009, 03:40 PM

sorry to double post

1 severum=55 gallon no tankmates

Lady Hobbs

08-10-2009, 03:42 PM

Demjor19

08-10-2009, 05:53 PM

Sevs can be pasive , FMs can be a handfull (and are Central American) . In a 75 they'd be fine Plenty of room for them. I think what is being missed is that the Green Sev has potential to grow to 12". That's a big fish for a 75 with tankmates as rowdy as Firemouths.

They don't get the name Red Devil for nothing LOL. They make great wet pets , mine has more personality than my dog. Not worthy of their own tank:axechase: , that's just silly.

I've been keeping Sevs for years (I think I have about 12-15 of them now) and have never seen one 12" long (maybe in the wild or public aquaria). 8-10 inches seems to be the average max size I've observed.

I'm not knocking the Red Devil at all...they are a beatiful fish (I was pretty bummed to have to move mine out). Although he was a puppy compared to my Dovii. You make these comments as if I have not kept these fish....also my mistake on the FM. I was thinking SA for some reason.

thatcichlidguy

08-10-2009, 06:01 PM

Firemouths and Severum stay. All others go. Severum will get around 8 inches and firemouths around 5. OR, just keep the Severum or just the firemouths and get a few larger community fish like maybe some barbs. Problem with firemouths is they spend all their time hiding so your tank is not very active to watch.Unfortunately you are incorrect Lady Hobbs. Green Severums when well cared for will exceed 8" and can and do often grow to 12". The tall bodied Sev will also not have much water over his head since a 75 is a relatively shallow tank for them. Turquoise Sevs do tend to stay on the small side, and would be better suited to such a tank.

Firemouths are far from shy. The only time I've ever noticed any that I have kept hiding was while guarding eggs or they were sick/stressed. They are also all over the board in terms of aggression and territorial aggression. Some are easy going ,some are monsters, and most fall in the middle somewhere close to the aggressive end of that spectrum.

The 75 gallon (standard) tank really isn't suited for a large community of CA cichlids, or even a mix of CA and SA cichlids. CAs are too territorial , and most of the popular SA cichlids would fill the tank all by themselves(excepting the dwarfs). While one can make this sort of thing work it's far from ideal, and requires quite a bit of work on the hobbiests part to insure it stays working. 75s do make excellent wet pet tanks or large community tanks for smaller fish. Even here, cichlids may be incorporated provided the species are compatable with the community stock. The species the OP has listed are not really suited to each other and all but the FMs are pushing the limits of the tank in question.

thatcichlidguy

08-10-2009, 06:12 PM

I've been keeping Sevs for years (I think I have about 12-15 of them now) and have never seen one 12" long (maybe in the wild or public aquaria). 8-10 inches seems to be the average max size I've observed.

I'm not knocking the Red Devil at all...they are a beatiful fish (I was pretty bummed to have to move mine out). Although he was a puppy compared to my Dovii. You make these comments as if I have not kept these fish....also my mistake on the FM. I was thinking SA for some reason.
There was a Gold sev at a LFS not long ago that was pretty close to 11". I'm not saying that every sev will grow to max size but when considering stocking max size should be considered. You never know , you may get that one that does.

Demjor19

08-10-2009, 06:23 PM

There was a Gold sev at a LFS not long ago that was pretty close to 11". I'm not saying that every sev will grow to max size but when considering stocking max size should be considered. You never know , you may get that one that does.

I hope I do get a BIG one. "Pretty close to 11 inches" is still a far cry from over 12 inches. That is still pretty much falling in the 8-10 inch catagory I mentioned. I have a male Gold that is right around 8" now...I havent noticed much (if any) additional growth in the past year. That being said all of my fish are on high quality pellet diets (NLS, Omega One, Hikari, and the occasional raw market shrimp). They also recieve extensive water changes (2-3 and sometimes more 50% waterchanges per week). I definitely give them the best care I can.

I do agree that the fishkeeper should always plan for the extremes, but the tank can always be upgraded...if anything it just gives me a reason for a new tank!

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 06:32 PM

how many severums do you think i can put into a 75 gallon

Demjor19

08-10-2009, 06:38 PM

how many severums do you think i can put into a 75 gallon

this topic will probably get heated. For a beginner I would not put more than one in there. I have kept pairs with tankmates in 75's with no problems, but it does take some effort. I would keep the stock as light as possible in your case.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 06:40 PM

i was just wondering well my little green one was killed just i would say a half hour ago but my fish are going tomorrow so idk what to do with the tank now because they r all goig an i am going to clean it out really well and what not so what color would people say i kind of like red ones but what others r there. Ha my mom wants me to do discus but i said they r to touchy for me right now like i am just learning i mean i have had fish for awhile but i am still learning

thatcichlidguy

08-10-2009, 06:41 PM

I hope I do get a BIG one. "Pretty close to 11 inches" is still a far cry from over 12 inches. That is still pretty much falling in the 8-10 inch catagory I mentioned. I have a male Gold that is right around 8" now...I havent noticed much (if any) additional growth in the past year. That being said all of my fish are on high quality pellet diets (NLS, Omega One, Hikari, and the occasional raw market shrimp). They also recieve extensive water changes (2-3 and sometimes more 50% waterchanges per week). I definitely give them the best care I can.
I do agree that the fishkeeper should always plan for the extremes, but the tank can always be upgraded...if anything it just gives me a reason for a new tank!We all do, and sounds like we have the same thought on caring for our sevsthumbs2: .

how many severums do you think i can put into a 75 gallon

Honestly I wouldn't put any in there long term, for the short term 1 or 2 provided they get a larger tank later on. Like within 6 months or something like that.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 06:45 PM

what would you considering to put into a 75 gallon tank then for long term?

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 06:51 PM

Either the severum with some tankmates, like some tetras or so, or just set up a community tank. One oscar or one JD would also fit in the 75 by itself. It's really up to you.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 06:53 PM

i want something that will stay smaller (not super small maybe about 5-7 inches) but is still really colorful and exoctic looking i already have a community tank and i truly dont want another one.

Demjor19

08-10-2009, 06:58 PM

i want something that will stay smaller (not super small maybe about 5-7 inches) but is still really colorful and exoctic looking i already have a community tank and i truly dont want another one.

Maybe keep the firemouths? They stay fairly small and are easy to look at.

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 07:01 PM

Hmm...really colorful...not too big...how about a leopard ctenopoma? Or one of the three spot gourami species, including the blue, opaline, and gold gouramis? Or a peacock eel, those are fun.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 07:05 PM

i have 2 blue,opaline, gold and a peacock eel already

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 07:06 PM

ooh..well...that dents the selection then...give me a little time and I will give you a list of fish.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 07:07 PM

how big do the leopard ctenopoma get i was looking at them before

J's Fish

08-10-2009, 07:08 PM

IMHO, the Red Devil is probably your most mean and most deadly fish, espeacially if it is a male. I have had Red Devils before and will not get one ever again, ion a community tank. They grow huge really fast and are just plain mean. Personally I do not think they are as nice looking as the other fish you have in there. Yes they are big and have nice fins but the plain color does not match the Dempseys, Fire Mouths or GT.

Also, if you water is fine I see no reason in getting rid of all your fish. How boring is it to have one or two fish in a nice sized aquarium.

If you want to get rid of some of your fish, I would say the Red Devil. The Jack Dempsey just need a large cave and will just chill there. The Fire Mouths are mostly chill and will probably just chase each other so you could get rid of one of them. The Green Terrors are one of my favorite fish and they can be mellow. The Other might not last that long.

Again this is my 2 cents.

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 07:14 PM

All right: the list is

Black Ghost Knife fish
African Butterflyfish
Cigarfish
Elephantnose
Celebes halfbeak
Wrestling halfbeak
Crocodile fish
Fire eel
Redtail prochilodus
Ropefish/Reedfish
Redtail shark
Rainbow shark

Now all of these are rather oddballish, and they would be best kept by themselves. Anyways, be sure to keep them by themselves as well.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 08:08 PM

wow soome of those fish are cool. like i like fire eels but something about them i dont like ha. I appreciate that list and the black ghost is something i would think about what would you say in the range of being able to have more then one fish. like almost GBR like how many of them because i think they are cool

Lady Hobbs

08-10-2009, 08:33 PM

Unfortunately you are incorrect Lady Hobbs. Green Severums when well cared for will exceed 8" and can and do often grow to 12". The tall bodied Sev will also not have much water over his head since a 75 is a relatively shallow tank for them. Turquoise Sevs do tend to stay on the small side, and would be better suited to such a tank.

Firemouths are far from shy. The only time I've ever noticed any that I have kept hiding was while guarding eggs or they were sick/stressed. They are also all over the board in terms of aggression and territorial aggression. Some are easy going ,some are monsters, and most fall in the middle somewhere close to the aggressive end of that spectrum.

The 75 gallon (standard) tank really isn't suited for a large community of CA cichlids, or even a mix of CA and SA cichlids. CAs are too territorial , and most of the popular SA cichlids would fill the tank all by themselves(excepting the dwarfs). While one can make this sort of thing work it's far from ideal, and requires quite a bit of work on the hobbiests part to insure it stays working. 75s do make excellent wet pet tanks or large community tanks for smaller fish. Even here, cichlids may be incorporated provided the species are compatable with the community stock. The species the OP has listed are not really suited to each other and all but the FMs are pushing the limits of the tank in question.

Could be we had different experiences with our firemouths then? I had several that were always in hiding. If they were out and about, they'd go into hiding when I walked in the room. Needless to say, I never saw a lot of them. I did like them a lot, tho, and could put tetra's, platies, gourami's, etc, in the tank with them. They only showed the orneries with each other but I never saw one fight. Just the strutting around stuff.

Goes to show in forums we have all had different experiences. I do agree that not mixing a bunch of different cichlids is the right way to fly, tho.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 08:39 PM

that is true i have learnd that see i think i was so excited to get some that i went out and bought without precaution but now i smartened up i was wondering how many German Blue Rams could i get in a 75 gallon i think they are really coool

fishbum

08-10-2009, 10:14 PM

You could have 3 pairs of GBR's with out too much trouble.But if that is the way you want to go,I would not add much else.When they breed,they will become aggressive.You could possibly keep some top swimmers with them,danios come to mind.
Also make sure you have plenty of caves,plants,rocks,decorations.They will break up their line of sight,and help keep aggression to a minimum.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 10:42 PM

Do i have to get pairs, or could i just getlike all males or all females. i planed to just do them and a couple of other littleler fish. like u said danios or tetras and stuff would bala shark mix well because they are fast i know they grow big but would they outgrow a 75 gallon

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 10:44 PM

I think 3 GBR pairs would be the limit. Possibly any of those others, but if you like GBRs, then you can't get much else in the tank. All males wouldn't be good, and all females might work, but you have to be careful. Balas are not recommended, as those can get BIG.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 10:48 PM

So if i put 2 pairs in could i get a couple of cories to put in like albino like two or three. I mean i find them pretty fascinating the GBR and at the stores they have them with gouramis and tetras and discus. But i am just saying so if i do two pairs could i do cories and things like is there any recomendation on what fish would work with them as in something fast and/or bottomdwelling

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 10:55 PM

GBRs can get pretty mean around breeding, so watch that carefully. A small school of cories might work, but you might have to be careful with aggression. From the GBRs. Not really the cories. Anyways, I think maybe some rainbows would be good. Maybe some boesimanis.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 10:59 PM

ok thank u i just dont want to make the same mistake twice, Like the saying u learn from ur mistakes and i learned big time. Thank u so basically i am settling on 1-2 Pairs of GBR and maybe a school of corrys (which cories look the nicest?) and maybe a couple rainbow fish would Austraulina rainbows work too.

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 11:01 PM

I actually prefer emerald green cories. But Juliies and Sterbas look good too, it's just really up to you and your preference. And a few rainbows would work well in that setup, I think it'll look really good! thumbs2:

fishbum

08-10-2009, 11:07 PM

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 11:08 PM

one more thing is it a HARD thing to care for German Blue rams like i looked up specifications and they say they are hard fish to care for

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 11:09 PM

Well...you have to keep them in warmer waters, and they need clean water. Otherwise, not really much is needed. Maintain the tank, and the GBRs will be fine.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 11:13 PM

well i do water changes once everyweek and about 25-40 percent usually a saturday so and i maintain a temp of 78-80 degrees in my 75 so would that be fine my Ph stays around 6.6 so is that ok

Oscar_freak12321

08-10-2009, 11:16 PM

Well...maybe maintain the temp at 80, and that's it. Watch the ph though. That could need to be raised later.

octoxpuss

08-10-2009, 11:19 PM

Thanks i will do that both so ok thanks for everything

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 02:40 AM

I did a water change today so my Ph is at 6.8 and temp went to 82

Oscar_freak12321

08-11-2009, 02:45 AM

All right, you're on the right start! thumbs2:

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 03:04 AM

so just tommorow i should be getting my new fish now is there any certain substrate and plants that should go in or cant i put plants

thatcichlidguy

08-11-2009, 04:01 AM

If your getting the rams a sand substrate is prefered. Since Rams are Dwarf Eartheaters they exibit the same behaviors as their larger relatives. Since that's a major overhaul of your tank, you may want to wait on that since they'll be OK without it, but it is the substrate of choice. You just miss out on some of the behaviors they have . Plants will be fine with them .

Oscar_freak12321

08-11-2009, 04:44 AM

Any plant species would do well with GBRs. Anyways, some good beginner plants are anubias, java moss, amazon swords and hornwort.

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 04:47 AM

well, like I said I plan on turning it into a more tropical fish tank and things. Like I have a background from walmart and I think it is a little cheesy like some of walmarts other fish products. Would a black background look extremely or better then the cheesy coral background my brother picked

Oscar_freak12321

08-11-2009, 04:49 AM

Well...it really depends on the substrate. Sand, of any color, looks great with a black background, but on the other hand, a cheesy background can actually look pretty good with gravel as well as plants.

Lab_Rat

08-11-2009, 05:50 AM

I personally prefer a black background over any kind of print.

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 01:02 PM

that is what i was thinking but we are going to the LFS and i will see if they have something but i dont know

Demjor19

08-11-2009, 02:57 PM

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 08:19 PM

Back from the LFS i purchased to corydoras and only 1 GBR:( the only one they had they sold the others 2 this morning right before i got there. i have no idea what gender got a couple of plants an aluminum plant, a crinkled purple, and some other plant i forget the name of

Oscar_freak12321

08-11-2009, 08:22 PM

Check the first and second fins on the GBR's dorsal fin. If I remember correctly, the first spine should be longer than the second on a male and the first is shorter for a female.
Demjor: [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

There's the link. It is also called a crazy fish.

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 08:56 PM

it is hard to see beause whenever i walk by it puts its fins down

Oscar_freak12321

08-11-2009, 09:22 PM

True. Watch the tank for a little while, and eventually it will put it up and you can recognize it.

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 09:31 PM

ha i got 2 little cories to go into the tank too they really didnt have anymore then that that looked nice they have spots all over them. Well doesnt the female have like blue over her black spot and a red belly sort of because mine doesnt have really anyblack spot just like a huge cluster of blue and a pinkish belly

Oscar_freak12321

08-11-2009, 09:35 PM

Not ich right? That would be bad. If not, those might look pretty good when you get a good school of them. thumbs2:

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 09:37 PM

no like dalmation spots they are like white with black patches on them ha i think they were something like panda cories

Oscar_freak12321

08-11-2009, 09:38 PM

Aha, well they should look great then! Have fun with them!

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 09:45 PM

Hold on i want to see if i can get a decent picture of my GBR

Oscar_freak12321

08-11-2009, 09:48 PM

All right! Would love to see it when you get a good picture! thumbs2:

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 09:51 PM

Ha i got a picture of my fish hahaha i think an alright one but this should help determine the gender i am leaning towards female][Only Registered Users Can See Links.] ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.)

Oscar_freak12321

08-11-2009, 09:57 PM

Ehhh...looks like a female but I can't tell for sure. I think I've seen that type of cory before, but I forgot what it was called. Great fish! thumbs2:

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 10:10 PM

Thanks like i said it is harder to tell maybe when it grows more.

octoxpuss

08-11-2009, 11:52 PM

Well if from what i can tell my GBR has a very pink/red belly so i am almost guessing that it is a she

Oscar_freak12321

08-12-2009, 12:37 AM

Possibly...I think males can too...I can be sure though...

octoxpuss

08-12-2009, 12:39 AM

alright, ha ugh it is so hard GBR are not very active like they r in the stores u know she/he sits on the bottom. Is it bad to only have one for a while just until their next batch is ready the LFS told me to try thursday because they r sure they will get more so i will call and reserve them

Oscar_freak12321

08-12-2009, 01:09 AM

Yeah, that should be fine. The GBR might be territorial, but if it is, then just switch up the decorations a little bit, and the aggression will go away.

octoxpuss

08-12-2009, 01:41 AM

here is a question, i have what i would like to think as a piar of convict about 1.5 inches each now my tank is 75 gallons could i put them in there it is just the GBR and A pumpkinseed Bluegill the corries and a pleco until i get that new tank so they stop fighting with all my other cichlids they do everything together like i mean they fight off the same oponent together stay on one side of the tank together follow each other the one watches the female everywhere she goes and hangs out in caves together and when they are attacking like if the male does he acts like his is going to attack the female and he goes to but he stop and circles around her. does that sound like a pair.

Oscar_freak12321

08-12-2009, 02:46 AM

Whoa, back up here. Let me try and see if I understand this. If I do, please tell me. If not, then correct me. So:
a) you have one 75 gallon.
b) you have a GBR, pumpkinseed bluegill, pleco, and some cories in the 75.
c) you have a pair of convicts in a tank with other cichlids.

So, question time:
1. You have a pumpkinseed bluegill, which is a coldwater fish, in with a GBR, a very warmwater fish. Did you realize, or was that planned?
2. The cons are in what tank with what tankmates?

If you can answer these questions, I think we could get a lot farther with your tank(s). If I seem a little rude I'm not trying to be. Just trying to help. :22: