Overstocked?

[lethfisher]

Hi all, I am new to the forum and have had fish for a year now. First off i'll say that i didn't do my homework before purchasing goldfish and just assuming that i should start with them rather than smaller growing tropical fish.

So i have a 10 gallon tank, yes i know to small! with 3 fantails in it. Two of them are about 1 inch body and 1 inch of tail and the other is about half that size. I have had the tank for a year running and all the fish have doubled in size since buying them.

I recently found a 20 gallon tank, i would have bought one sooner but i am poor and a student so double poor lol so i will be moving my fish to this new tank. I know now that goldfish should be 10 gallons per fish and should have got a 29/30 gallon tank but couldn't find one in my price range.

When the fantails are still fairly small though is it a big deal not to have a large tank for them? hopefully by the time they are getting ever larger and closer to full size i can afford an even larger tank. I am thinking of getting a filter suited for a 30 gallon tank so the water will be kept extra clean in the smaller tank until then. So do you guys consider this overstocked even though the fish are little guys still?

here are some pics of them in the 10 gallon. i am moving at the end of the month (2 days) and will be setting up the new tank in the new apartment.

http://silversummitstudios.com/fishing/3fantails.jpeg

http://silversummitstudios.com/fishing/3fantails_2.jpg

thanks!!

[dancethenparty]

i don't know much about goldfish.
the reasons to not have them in a small tank even if they are small is:
a) they could get stunted
b) you will have to buy a larger tank anyways, so why not now?

and a question i have for you is, the new tank you will be putting them in, is it alreadly cycled? or will you be performing a cycle with fish?

[robflanker]

From what I know of goldfish, your tank is massively overstocked - i believe the rule of thumb for goldfish is 20g per fish.

They are really really messy and have high bioloads

[lethfisher]

how can it be massively overstocked if they are little!? wouldn't the tank look pretty much empty if i got a 60 gallon tank for three 2 inch fish? it is frustrating because that other guy responder in his signature says he has a 20 gallon tank with 17 fish and 3 frogs in it! and i can't even have 3? i know obviously fish have different needs and whatnot but that seems a little silly.

for the new tank i think i will put in some of the water the fish are in now and the gravel/decorations from the current tank as well. i'll let it cycle for a week probably before adding the goldfish into it or maybe just stick the little fish in there before the big guys so in case something is funny happens only one fish might get sick rather than all 3.

[dancethenparty]

how can it be massively overstocked if they are little!? wouldn't the tank look pretty much empty if i got a 60 gallon tank for three 2 inch fish? it is frustrating because that other guy responder in his signature says he has a 20 gallon tank with 17 fish and 3 frogs in it! and i can't even have 3? i know obviously fish have different needs and whatnot but that seems a little silly.

for the new tank i think i will put in some of the water the fish are in now and the gravel/decorations from the current tank as well. i'll let it cycle for a week probably before adding the goldfish into it or maybe just stick the little fish in there before the big guys so in case something is funny happens only one fish might get sick rather than all 3.
do you mean my sig?
a)i'm overstocked.
b) my fish are small. really small.
you hav to think not only of how big the fish get but their bioload.
for example:
my three african dwarf frogs produce a very small bioload so they could probably go in a 5 gallon tank.
however my bristlenose pleco creates a huge bioload and is practically a poop monster that he needs a 20 gallon tank so he won't die of ammonia poisening.
makes sense?
your goldfish is kinda like my pleco
it seems silly now, but trust me your fish will be much healthier and you will save money if you jsut buy the big tank.
have you done that way of cycling before? i suggest you read about cylcing on here. it's under the aquarium forum under the menu...

[robflanker]

how can it be massively overstocked if they are little!? wouldn't the tank look pretty much empty if i got a 60 gallon tank for three 2 inch fish? it is frustrating because that other guy responder in his signature says he has a 20 gallon tank with 17 fish and 3 frogs in it! and i can't even have 3? i know obviously fish have different needs and whatnot but that seems a little silly.

for the new tank i think i will put in some of the water the fish are in now and the gravel/decorations from the current tank as well. i'll let it cycle for a week probably before adding the goldfish into it or maybe just stick the little fish in there before the big guys so in case something is funny happens only one fish might get sick rather than all 3.
You are massively overstocked because it is not to do with the size of the fish currently - its to do with the amount of poop they make and the size they get to be.

The tank won't look empty because the fish will grow.

As DanceThenParty admitted - they are overstocked, and not all fish are equal. Goldfish make an enormous amount of waste whereas smaller fishes such as tetras barely make any. You cannot compare pure numbers - i am sorry but you are overstocked. I was in the same boat as you (3 goldfish in a 10g too) but it is the truth - you are overstocked.

[robflanker]

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=27245&highlight=fishguy+goldfish

Read this - especially post #13

[Kaz]

From what I know of goldfish, your tank is massively overstocked - i believe the rule of thumb for goldfish is 20g per fish.

They are really really messy and have high bioloads

I believe it is 20 gallons for the first goldfish and 10g per each fish after.

[bigbad-ratman]

my first tank was a 45 gal with 4 fancy goldfish, and i started with only a 50 gal filter. one lost fish later, ALOT of cleaning, and another filter, my fish started to grow.
what this means to you: if cycle with fancies, you might loose one or three; as was already said, they are very messy, (i have seen mine poop tetras! :hmm3grin2orange: ), and your tank, and i believe the one you are planning on buying are too small. if you cant get a tank bigger than 30 gal take one or two fish back. if you do get a bigger tank, i would keep them in the 10 gal long enough to cycle your new one and no longer. that is my 2 pennies.

[labnjab]

Like others said, they will grow, and they will grow fast. Before we joined this forum and when we didn't know a thing, we had 4 fancy goldfish in an under filtered 29 gallon, similar to the size of the fish you have, but maybe a little bigger, and our water was dark green. When I look back now I'm shocked they survived, lol.

After joining we took the advice of everyone here and upgraded them to a heavily filtered 55 gallon, and then they started to grow fast, and we soon upgraded again to a heavily filtered, moderaltey planted 75, (there current home) Its been almost a year and we haven't lost one, or even had one get sick, and thier still growing like weeds. We also added 2 more friends for them once we got the 75 since they love to school.

A year ago the smallest was maybe 2 inches long and the biggest was 4 inches (from nose to tail). Now the smallest is 4 inches long and the biggest (a black moore) is pushing 7-8 inches. We already have plans to upgrade them to a 120 gallon because of how big they are getting

Basically what I'm trying to say is goldfish are messy, and they grow fast. If you plan on keeping all of them I would get a large tank from the get go. That way you don't end up like us and constantly upgrade, :ssuprised:, lol. If you plan on just having the 3 of them, I would get a 55 with a filter rated for atleast 100 gallon, but if you plan on adding to the school I would go 75 or larger. They love being in schools. Ours are constantly playing with each other. Yours will be ok in the 20 gallon for a few months, but if they grow like ours have, it will be cramped fast. Keep an eye out on craigslist, I'm always finding awesome deals on complete setups

[dancethenparty]

or if you don't want to do all this...you could just take them back and get something else...
i'm a girl btw...not a guy :P

[bigbad-ratman]

i do have to ask the question: do you have a test kit for your water? i am reading between the lines here, but it doesnt sound like you do. if not, you really should get one. quick.

[lethfisher]

thanks for all the input guys. i guess i'll be on the lookout for a bigger tank lol
i do have a test kit but haven't done it in awhile :(

[dancethenparty]

thanks for all the input guys. i guess i'll be on the lookout for a bigger tank lol
i do have a test kit but haven't done it in awhile :(
wait...what kind of test kit? O_o
liquid or strip?

[megastealer]

Check craigslist for cheap tanks in your area. As others have stated, your tank is too small for even one goldfish.

You have however come to the right place to learn how to keep happy, healthy goldfish! I wish I had done my research here before I started... Caprica would still be alive :scry: Caprica was one of those fish at the fish store who stood out from the others with her energy.. and it was really sad to see her get sick and slowly stop being able to swim.

Good luck, and be sure to ask if you have questions. :goldfish: :goldfish:

[lethfisher]

so i just tested the water again in the 10 gallon tank. It was a liquid test kit called Freshwater Masters Liquid Test Kit and had tests for PH, ammonia and nitrates. The results are as follows:

PH: 7.5 - 7.6
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrates: 0 ppm

The test kits gave a little colour matching card and for the ammonia and nitrate test the water came back clear which indicated 0. Zero seems kinda odd, shouldn't there be some in there? Also at the time of the test the water temp is 66-68 F

How would you guys rate these test results?

[bigbad-ratman]

when was the last time you did a water change? how long has your tank been established? you didnt mention nitrites? you should be testing for those as well. if you have high nitrites, you could have no ammonia and no nitrates...but that i just speculation.

[lethfisher]

I did a water change about 35% last night. I set the tank up in August of last year. How do i test for nitrites? the kit doesn't have that option lol

[bigbad-ratman]

if you did a water change before testing that can affect your readings a little. to test for nitrites you would need a test kit that tests for that. however, assuming you have done something right in the last year or so, you shouldnt have any ammonia or nitrites.

[lethfisher]

awesome :) I am glad the water is at a good level for my fish even if they are in a small tank.

I have another question about feeding, can i feed them bugs like mosquitos, spiders, ants or little beetles i find around the house? I have given them tiny beetles before and they get gobbled up but is this a good idea??

Thanks!

[bigbad-ratman]

i dont, event hough there is no shortage of creepie crawlies. i just dont know where there have been and what kinda unholiness they might unleash in my tank.

[megastealer]

awesome :) I am glad the water is at a good level for my fish even if they are in a small tank.

I have another question about feeding, can i feed them bugs like mosquitos, spiders, ants or little beetles i find around the house? I have given them tiny beetles before and they get gobbled up but is this a good idea??

Thanks!


I'm not sure you're seeing the point... in order to keep that water at a good level for the fish you will need large daily water changes, rather than the one week changes normal tanks need. The tank will not cycle properly for the fish because too many toxins will build up for the bacteria, causing a large spike in ammonia, and then a large spike in nitrites. This is really a fact, not estimation... so I do hope you are still looking for a bigger home.

As for feeding, I would feed as little as possible, maybe only feeding every other day to keep the ammonia levels down. Your fish might make it about 6 months in your tank, but I can guarantee you one or more of them will die, and goldfish have a lifespan of a very long time, reaching even 10 years quite easily if taken proper care of.

[lethfisher]

hi, they are now in a 20 gallon tank with an aquaclear 30 filter on it for better filtration. i know i should have gotten a bigger tank but i bought this one on Kijiji from a person for $25 and it came with a whole load of extras (filters, heaters, testings, decorations, etc). i wanted a 30 or 55 but they were to expensive for me right now. i figure the 20 gallon will be better than the 10 at any rate until i can afford a bigger one. Plus then i can make the 20 gallon a tropical tank, get rid completely of the 10 gallon, and have a rocking 55 gallon for my fantails :)

[megastealer]

hi, they are now in a 20 gallon tank with an aquaclear 30 filter on it for better filtration. i know i should have gotten a bigger tank but i bought this one on Kijiji from a person for $25 and it came with a whole load of extras (filters, heaters, testings, decorations, etc). i wanted a 30 or 55 but they were to expensive for me right now. i figure the 20 gallon will be better than the 10 at any rate until i can afford a bigger one. Plus then i can make the 20 gallon a tropical tank, get rid completely of the 10 gallon, and have a rocking 55 gallon for my fantails :)

That sounds like a good plan! Keep looking for good prices on big filters though, an Aquaclear 30 on a 20 gallon is adequate, but not really going to give you excellent filtration.

Also, since I'm assuming the tank isn't cycled, you are still going to need daily water changes. Otherwise, the ammonia will build up for a couple days and poison the fish with ammonia, and then the nitrites will come in after and poison with that... usually this is it for the poor fishies :( You sound like you have a good plan in place though, so keep us posted! :ssmile:

[lethfisher]

good to know about the water changes. i'll do another one tonight or tomorrow morning and keep testing the water

[megastealer]

good to know about the water changes. i'll do another one tonight or tomorrow morning and keep testing the water

A good product for you also might be something like Stress Zyme.. they sell it at most fish stores, pet stores, and wal mart. Apparently it has all the bacteria already in it, and you can add it once a week to your water to help get the bacteria in your filter going more quickly.

[lethfisher]

ya with my 20 gallon came a tube of Bacteria Starter i think it is called and i added it when i setup the tank.

I am thinking of getting a terracotta pot and putting an anubias plant in it for some decoration. we'll see if the fish munch on it :) I also have a question about overstocking decorations...

Assuming I had 55 gallon tank for my 3 fantails so they have the proper space to grow, is it possible to overstock decorations or plants? I have seen some aquarium photos that look just stuffed full of plants, does this hurt the fish because the plants are taking up all this space?? Also with rock decorations like slate that can be made into large displays does this effect fish? should i subtract the volume of the rocks from the overall volume of the tank to find the actual space the fish have?? I hope this question makes sense! thanks so far for all your help :) I appreciate it!

[bigbad-ratman]

i think for fantails yes you can get too crowded with deco. i deco'd the back and sides and left the front and top of the tank open. there is still plenty to stimulate them but they have plenty of room to swim. and while not comets, they do need room to roam.

[lethfisher]

good to know, I am in no danger of doing that but i was curious. I picked up some small terracotta pots today from the dollarstore, 3 for a dollar and some rocks as well for a buck. i think i'll boil them for awhile to get rid of any bits or bad stuff before putting them into my tank. i am thinking pot filled with fun coloured rocks and a plant should look pretty sharp :)

[bigbad-ratman]

i did almost exactely that and then turned one pot over. makes the tank look not quite so staged i think. also gives the fish to peek into when they get bored.

[lethfisher]

heres my 3 fantails in the 20 gallon tank. Looks pretty empty lol I am off to the pet store to get some decor for it tomorrow

http://silversummitstudios.com/fishing/twentygallon.JPG

[megastealer]

My goldfish love amazon swords. They don't eat it but they like to swim under it and brush up against it. It gives them some security, and really with fish, its hard to have too many plants if they still have plenty of room to swim around... plants eat up a lot of the waste products, so you avoid a lot of accidental toxin cycles with more plants. If you have one end or the front of the tank bare and open for swimming, the fish seem to be pretty active as they get curious and swim out of the plants to look at you and outside the tank, but still feel they have somewhere to hide if they get scared.

[lethfisher]

i googled amazon swords and they look pretty sweet. A few sites mentioned that swords need heated water so they aren't good matches for goldfish..? Others said they are fine and will adapt to water conditions and substrate size. any thoughts on that? thanks!

[megastealer]

Here's a screenshot of my 29 gallon tank with amazon swords, water wisteria, and java fern. The water wisteria has since died for one reason or another, but the amazon swords are nice and healthy. This tank is unheated, I haven't heard that amazon swords need a heater before... but I'm no expert so I won't say for sure... I'll just say they're growing for me just fine unheated. My goldfish gaius lives in this tank, and when I move up to school in 2 weeks, I am going to buy another to be his little goldfish companion :)

http://i39.tinypic.com/29c1ji9.jpg

[lethfisher]

that tank looks pretty sweet, i like the contrasting colours of the sand, plants and driftwood. ya my school starts in september so i want everything in the tank to be setup and good to go so i don't have to spend as much time on it during the school year. what are u taking in school?

[Girl Got Mojo]

The fish probably need some sort of heater too. Even tho they are coldwater fish they need some sort of stability. Temperature in the water will rise and fall all throughout the day even if the temp in your house is stable. Just to think about.

[megastealer]

that tank looks pretty sweet, i like the contrasting colours of the sand, plants and driftwood. ya my school starts in september so i want everything in the tank to be setup and good to go so i don't have to spend as much time on it during the school year. what are u taking in school?

I'm going to be in my sophomore year of college next year, majoring in computer engineering and minoring in aerospace studies.

[lethfisher]

sweet i am going into 2nd year civil engineering :)

[lethfisher]

I went to the pet store (Pisces Pet Emporium if anyone reads this is from Calgary) and they had a ton of different plants to choose from. They had the sword tails, 50% off!, but the pet guy recommended these other ones which were also 50% off so i got them instead. The name is on the reciept and i'll post it later but i can't think of it off the top of my head. The named ended like augustilea or something lol So i got 3 plants for 3 bucks which i thought was a good deal.

All 3 plants
http://silversummitstudios.com/fish/tank_aug3.JPG

One plant in a tipped over terracotta pot, the pot standing normal looked out of place so i tipped it
http://silversummitstudios.com/fish/tank2_aug3.JPG

[lethfisher]

the name of the plant is hygrophila Augustifolia

[megastealer]

Cool plants, you do have lighting for them right? (they need this to go through photosynthesis) - the lighting I have above my tank are T5 10k high output fluorescent lights

[lethfisher]

ya i have two florescent light bulbs on the tank hood that i keep on for probably 8 hours a day. not sure of the output though. I can see my fish nibbling at them already lol we'll see how long they last