Serpae Tetra

[Braccus]

I've heard that these guys can be nippers. I have 3 angels and a gold gourami in my 55g tank. Would I be ok if I got 8 of these serpae or is it too risky?

My other option would be head and tail light tetras (lfs has both on sale hehe).

[Archman66]

I've heard that these guys can be nippers. I have 3 angels and a gold gourami in my 55g tank. Would I be ok if I got 8 of these serpae or is it too risky?

My other option would be head and tail light tetras (lfs has both on sale hehe).

Serpae's can be a bit nippy - not as bad as Tiger Barbs, though. With 8 of them in that size tank I think you'll be OK. The serpaes will chase each other if you have enough (and you will) plus there's plenty of space in a 55 g for other fish to stay away if they want. Just make sure there's some hiding places in the tank.

[rangur1]

the tetras will not bother those fish you have.

[DrNic]

I think it depends on the size of the angelfish. They have large fins that are good targets for nipping. If the angelfish are small and can't defend themselves they might get nipped at. If they are larger however, when the serpes nip the angelfish the angelfish will fend them off without a problem.

[smaug]

I have kept serpaes on multiple occasions.They have never shown any nippyness.At the moment I have 5 of them in a tank with an angelfish.There so called nippyness is normally targeted at each other.

[Lady Hobbs]

How did you know I was about to come in here and ask this very same question!

I saw the serpae's at Walmart today and knew I had to get my quarantine tank set up if I was to buy ANY fish from Walmarts so didn't get them today. I too was concerned as I've often read they can be nippy and mine will go in my 55 gallon with other tetra's and 4 young angels. I have also heard often of Black Skirts being nippy and I have 30 of them and never seen even one nipper.

Guess I will go back and get some serpae's tomorrow then. Hey, thanks for starting this thread as I got my question asked, too.

[Kaz]

I know them to be a bit nippy and in my mind it is better safe then sorry.

I suggest lemon tetras as an alternative.

[Lady Hobbs]

Another nice tetra is the Columbian red fins and the Red eye tetra's. Both of those are neat, too.

[smaug]

I know them to be a bit nippy and in my mind it is better safe then sorry.

I suggest lemon tetras as an alternative.
Is this from actual experiance with keeping them Kaz?

[Fishesses]

Those Serpae Tetra look like what we were sold as 'long fin red minor tetras' and that may be another name for them.

Ours have not been nippy. Their color got much more vibrant in our tank than in the store. One of them has grown very frilly fins with white trim. It's quite different than the pictures.

[Fishesses]

I added pics to my gallery so you can see.

The pic with the CAE is from a few months ago. The others, dated 8-2009, are from today. Two pics of the fancy one and one pic of a plain one.

[King Tut]

I have 3 serpae and 3 black phantom in a tank with my angel and gourami and don't have any nipping from either of the tetra's. They do chase each other but I have yet to see a nipped fin.

[smaug]

Those Serpae Tetra look like what we were sold as 'long fin red minor tetras' and that may be another name for them.

Ours have not been nippy. Their color got much more vibrant in our tank than in the store. One of them has grown very frilly fins with white trim. It's quite different than the pictures.
Am I missing some pics to look at?

[Fishesses]

Clicky the Fishy in my siggy, Smaug(y). I put 'em in my gallery. :ssmile:

[smaug]

Clicky the Fishy in my siggy, Smaug(y). I put 'em in my gallery. :ssmile:
Oh,,,,,,,,ok.They look nothing like my serps.Here are mine.As I stated earlier they are perfect tankmates in my case.
15926

[rich311k]

Very nice fish. they look like they have longer fins. Some different variety.

[Kaz]

Is this from actual experiance with keeping them Kaz?

Of course not smaug but I know that you could keep any fish and they would be peaceful.

What I meant was that in my research and questions asked to numerous fishkeepers I have found that the majority of the sources say that serpaes can be nippy.

IMO, it is better to be safe than sorry.

[mac]

Is this from actual experiance with keeping them Kaz?

Now I have had experience with these fish. And I agree with Kaz. They are okay the more you have of them, but they still nip at other fish IME.

mac

[jaysee]

Those Serpae Tetra look like what we were sold as 'long fin red minor tetras' and that may be another name for them.

Petsmart ?

[smaug]

Of course not smaug but I know that you could keep any fish and they would be peaceful.

What I meant was that in my research and questions asked to numerous fishkeepers I have found that the majority of the sources say that serpaes can be nippy.

IMO, it is better to be safe than sorry.
No experiance,no advice given,thats the "better safe then sorry" you should be practicing.
Many fish can be nippy,black skirts,and many other tetra exhibit these traits if they are not kept in the proper environment.Generic,unexpericanced advice is best kept to yourself.

[Kaz]

No experiance,no advice given,thats the "better safe then sorry" you should be practicing.
Many fish can be nippy,black skirts,and many other tetra exhibit these traits if they are not kept in the proper environment.Generic,unexpericanced advice is best kept to yourself.

So when many other experienced fishkeepers give advice based on their experience and I pass it on it becomes less valuable than somebody giving advice right from their own experience?

Why is it that information becomes worthless after I collect and retell?

What is it about passing on information that makes it worthless?

Why can a person only know something if they have experience? Why can't somebody pick up knowlege with research?

And if the original poster listened to your advice and later somebody asked him the same question what should he say?

"I haven't had them so I can't answer" or "I asked the same question and the answer was no, they do not nip."

I just don't get it smaug.

[Lab_Rat]

So when many other experienced fishkeepers give advice based on their experience and I pass it on it becomes less valuable than somebody giving advice right from their own experience?

Why is it that information becomes worthless after I collect and retell?

What is it about passing on information that makes it worthless?

Why can a person only know something if they have experience? Why can't somebody pick up knowlege with research?

Personal experience is always good to draw from but anecdotal evidence, when a person is able to back it up, is also valuable.

For example, I have never kept a red tailed catfish yet I will still advise someone with a 55g tank not to purchase one. Is this advise valuable since I have not personally kept one? I think it is since I can back up my advice with fish profiles from reliable sources.

In my opinion, research into a subject matter is vital, and as long as the concept is understood and you can back up your claim with evidence there is no harm in passing on the information. On the other hand, making blanket statements about "something you heard" without evidence to back up your advice is not appropriate.

[Jacko]

No experiance,no advice given,thats the "better safe then sorry" you should be practicing...Generic,unexpericanced advice is best kept to yourself.

I disagree with this smaug, what you're saying is that someone can't go ask somebody they know whether or not something is fact or for that persons experience to back up what they already think is right. Experience can be wrong or a special 1 of a kind case and isn't always the general experience, but you might be the only one with experience here on that... so the person ends up getting a result completely different than yours. On a regular basis, you can go and look things up and they will be just as correct as someones experience.

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all "serpae tetras" are serpae tetras, there are alot of red tetras to confuse them with, I've seen crystal red (hyphessobrycon haraldschultzi) and red phantom (H. sweglesi) confused as true serpaes (H. eques)...

I'm not sure that yours are true H. eques either smaug, since they lack the comma shaped spot unless it is blocked out by the flash on the body, I can't tell. If they look different (excepting the fins) from Fishesses Red Minors (which is another name for H. eques), which I'm pretty sure are H. eques.

As for my experience, I've kept them in a group of 5-6 with gold gouramies and gbr without any issues but I'm not overly certain that mine were definitely serpaes and since it was over 2 years ago, I can't be certain what they looked like exactly. I've never really trusted petco to properly mark their fish.

[Fishesses]

Petsmart ?

Yes.

I saw the plainer looking of the fish pictured in this thread at a different store and they were labeled Serpae Tetra. The frilly finned one we have did not look so frilly finned when we got it. It grew up to look like that.

[mac]

I agree with Jacko on the fish. That because of a large amount of miss labeled fish it can be hard to determine the fish types. Also creating a false pretense to the own that their fish is peaceful when it should be territorial or nippy, visa versa.

Another key point is I do not in any way believe that we should be telling members to not give there points of view in regards to fish, if they have not kept them. In many cases a lot of these members will have studied and researched the fish to quite an extreme. Talked with people who have them, watched how the fish behaves ect ect.
You don't need full experience with keeping fish for your self, but the best experience is to study from other people all over and gather facts and multiple experiences to form hypothesis of the fish's tendencies and possible behavior.

In this way you don't have just your own tank system which might work, but you will have various types of tanks, stocking and environments. Which make up a great amount of information.

Kaz I have always watched your post's and you seem very reliable and strait forward in your advice, with good research. So I am with you on your way of doing things.

mac

[smaug]

Alrighty then,since it seems accepted to give anecdotal evidence of a fishes behavior I will post some internet site that state nothing about the serpaes allged nipping to other tank mates.
I will start with badmans
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
then wikipedia
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
then fishlore,which mentions nipping but gives a clear solution.
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
aquarium wikipedia
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
good ole aquatic community
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aquahobby,with quite a few comments from "actual" keepers of this fish.
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
elmers aqauariums,with another mention of needed school sizes.
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
the list goes on,I do believe this shows that if you know what you are doing and have good keeping skills then this fish is for you.Im not here to stroke anyones ego or make buddys.The info is straight forward and backed up by facts,not by comments seen on species info cards at walmart.I have said all I will on this subject,we all have our own opinions.Let the poster decide.

[KingFisher]

I had a school of six serpaes in a 55 gallon tank and they used to nip at the cory's dorsal fins and make them hide all the time. When I moved them The corys were a lot more comfortable and would stay out in the open more.


There were no problems with the other fish in the tank though.

[robflanker]

If we work on the policy that we only give advice if we have actually owned a particular fish species - this would be a very quiet board with 3 members answering the questions.
I do not believe that is the solution

[mac]

Alrighty then,since it seems accepted to give anecdotal evidence of a fishes behavior I will post some internet site that state nothing about the serpaes allged nipping to other tank mates.

Right so if everything has to be done with experience then the forum would be halved. Great then.:22:

So if we did what you wanted, only answer questions if you have experience with the subject, then half the questions asked would not be answered up to much of a point, which would not help the people asking questions.:22:

Most of the info gathered by the members is very accurate. Just a bit bother some to some members.

Now going through all the links, plus others I know, if read very carefully you will notice, "not to keep with long fined fish", "tendency to nip" ect ect.

the list goes on,I do believe this shows that if you know what you are doing and have good keeping skills then this fish is for you.Im not here to stroke anyones ego or make buddys.The info is straight forward and backed up by facts,not by comments seen on species info cards at walmart.I have said all I will on this subject,we all have our own opinions.Let the poster decide.

It dose, or you have a different type of Tetra which is not a true Serpae Tetra. Also school size, tank size, tanks mates, environment.

Now all of us seem t agree on most of the topic asked. Just that every one has a slightly different opinion. Just no need to beat some one up over it.

mac

[Sharon]

I will say that research and experience are BOTH important when making contributions to a forum of any kind. There is no need for condescending comments.... Chill!

[Little Embers]

This is just my opinion and I have said it before in a thread somewhere...When any fish are kept in an enclosed space, they have the propensity to behave outside what is considered the "norm"....Just always expect the unexpected...

IME I feel that any tetra species can be nippy sometimes...

[mac]

I totally agree with you L embers.

mac

[Kaz]

Alrighty then,since it seems accepted to give anecdotal evidence of a fishes behavior I will post some internet site that state nothing about the serpaes allged nipping to other tank mates.
I will start with badmans
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
then wikipedia
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
then fishlore,which mentions nipping but gives a clear solution.
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
aquarium wikipedia
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
good ole aquatic community
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
aquahobby,with quite a few comments from "actual" keepers of this fish.
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
elmers aqauariums,with another mention of needed school sizes.
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
the list goes on,I do believe this shows that if you know what you are doing and have good keeping skills then this fish is for you.Im not here to stroke anyones ego or make buddys.The info is straight forward and backed up by facts,not by comments seen on species info cards at walmart.I have said all I will on this subject,we all have our own opinions.Let the poster decide.

Here is an interesting thing, it seems that your sources prove my point just as much as yours.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

I encourage you to read the comments on this article.

Next these next articles don't need to say they nip other fish to prove my point. If the tetras show aggresion to other fish in small numbers and to themselves in larger numbers, this proves that they not only show aggression but they have been known to show aggression to other fish. Now, while having 8 serpaes will limit aggression, it won't stop it. It is not unreasonable to assume that something out of the norm will happen in the years that they are kept. Further more, with fish like gouramis or angels you do not want to take chances. Little E was right about fish acting different in captivity and once again we must remember that these tetras normally have schools numbering in triple digits. As one last add-on, Serpaes have an increase in aggression when water quality becomes worse and while I'm sure you are always on top of your water quality, we can't be sure of the OP as even the best fishkeepers have accidents with water quality.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

This tetra is generally peaceful but they are sometimes prone to fin nipping on some of their tank mates. Keeping them in a school of 6 or more may help alleviate this problem.


I don't take a chance on may in regards to angels and gouramis.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Can be nippy amongst themselves and towards other fish, keep in groups of 6 or more. Do not keep with slow moving, long-finned or very small fish.

Do you know what are slow moving, long-finned fish? Angelfish.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

They have a reputation of being fin-nippers although this is disputed. If any aggression is seen in the fish, it is usually amongst themselves rather than aimed at tankmates outside of their species, especially if they are kept in large groups where they can establish a pecking order

I hardly consider wikipedia a good aquarium source of info anyway as it says that most tetras can be kept in schools of 3.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

They can become a bit aggressive during feeding, since they will compete for food and sometimes nip each other's fins.

Good ol' AC, but this time the article rather than just the profile.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Sadly, the serpaes, lamp eyes, and rainbow shark killed the angels. Whenever they went to the top of the tank, the lamp eyes picked on them, when they went to the mid-section of the tank, the serpaes picked on them

I have heard several cases of Serpae Tetras being very aggressive toward tankmates. In some cases that I have experienced the Serpaes being aggressive, it was mainly because of lack of space and swimming room to themselves due to overcrowding. Also, the more Serpaes you have, the more territorial they become.

I had a group of 5 Serpae Tetras that fin nipped everything in the tank

I have 9 Serpae Tetras in a 150 liter tank, They have never shown agressive behavior towards any except themselves, but with no real injuries. Then I added 10 neon Tetras. Within 5 days the Serpaes had killed them all

Those are just some reports within the first 2 pages.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

They are lively and active fish that should be kept with other active fish of similar size. They may nip fins if kept singly, schools of at least 6 fish will help deter fin nipping behavior.

Again we have a case of fin nipping occuring but keeping them in schools reduces that event.

Reduces.

Now for some sources of my own.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

A whole FAQ!

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

You know what to look for.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Best-suited to a community of robust species, as it has a well-deserved reputation as a fin nipper. This behaviour is at its worst when it's combined with slow-moving, long-finned species such as guppies, angel fish or anabantoids. It can also be quite aggressive at feeding time if kept in a crowded tank. As a result, keep it with active tankmates, such as other similarly-sized tetras, rainbowfish, larger rasboras, barbs and most danionins. Bottom dwellers such as Corydoras catfish, Doradids, small Loricariids and botiine loaches are also ok.

It's nippy behaviour can usually be reduced somewhat by purchasing a small shoal of at least 6-8 specimens, preferably more. When kept in these kind of numbers, any squabbling is mostly contained within the group, as they concentrate on the maintenance of their own pecking order.

And I have more than enough testimonies on the AC chat.

I've had enough of this though, since all I was trying to do was to put my 2 cents in and I was not counting on a barrage of poorly spelled, angry comments telling me I shouldn't give advice.

[Red]

Ill throw in my three cents.
I have a 45 gallon tank, with 12 serps and with a pair of angels. From time to time, I would see a chunk of fin from the angel missing. They also got big and nice fins, and by time ends they would beat the living heck out of each other. IMO they get big and ugly, loose fins and get ragged. Never liked them. A congo or emperor are much better.

[lg0815]

just like every one else said they can be nippy just watch em

[Kaz]

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all "serpae tetras" are serpae tetras, there are alot of red tetras to confuse them with, I've seen crystal red (hyphessobrycon haraldschultzi) and red phantom (H. sweglesi) confused as true serpaes (H. eques)...

I'm not sure that yours are true H. eques either smaug, since they lack the comma shaped spot unless it is blocked out by the flash on the body, I can't tell. If they look different (excepting the fins) from Fishesses Red Minors (which is another name for H. eques), which I'm pretty sure are H. eques.


I resubmit this as an alternative.

[frank_zappa]

it is a public forum, anyone can say what they want, and anybody else can come along and dispute what they say as b.s., you just cannot say bullsh*t, and it should all be done with respect towards each other...it is good to differentiate between anecdotal and firsthand experience, too

[Braccus]

I ended up buying 6 but after a few days had to take them back. Definitely liked nipping my Altum Angel which is a big no-no as he is my favorite fish. Surprisingly though they really went after my Gold Gourami which shocked me since she is fairly aggressive herself when I first add new fish (never bothers my angels though).

I did enjoy watching how they interacted with each other within their group. The young ones were the biggest nippers and any chance they got they would chase my other fish. The mature ones (3 older ones and 3 smaller ones) would mostly leave my other fish alone and took on the role of sheep dog keeping their herd in order.

I don't know if a fishes age plays a part in it but it certainly was interesting how the young ones were the biggest pain.

[mac]

That is the Serpae for you. I mean the proper type of one.

mac

[FroggyFish]

I have a group of 10 Red Serpae in a 125 litre tank, and while they chase each other, they are fine with my other fish (5 Black Phantoms, 6 Cardinals & 2 Bristlenose Plecs) - with no fin-nipping whatsoever.