Help with DIY yeast System

[hungryhound]

Hello everyone,

I am in the process of setting up a DIY CO2 systema and have come across a few questions.

My first question has to do with the container for the reactor. I have a 46 gallon tank and was thinking of trying to cut corners on having to use two pop bottles (don’t drink it so it would be a waste of money), and was thinking about using a 1 gallon jug. Not a milk jug but a juice jug.

http://graphics.samsclub.com/images/products/0004124441282_LG.jpg

I have two jugs made out of this plastic. It is twice as thick as a pop bottle, but I know that thickness does not necessarily mean strength.. Do you think that it could withstand the pressure?

OR should I just go with two pop bottles?

Or should I go with one of these 4 liter nalgene bottles? (the larger bottle).
http://www.nalgenelabware.com/common/images/products/2097a1M.jpg

My next question is on tubing. I cannot find any C02 resistant tubing at any of my pet stores and I don’t want to pay shipping on it. Would there be any problems using Tygon tubing.

tygon tubing (http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/682.cfm)

Finnaly I was thinking about having my system run like so.

Reactor (containing yeast mixture)
Tubing
Check valve
More tubing to tank
Red sea CO2 Reactor 500

Will this be okay, or do I still need to add a gas diffuser. See image below

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/bigdiyco255.jpg

Last but not least. If the 1 gallon is okay, do I just double the amount of ingredients recommended for a two liter bottle?

Therefore

2 cups water, 2 cups sugar, .25 teas. Yeast

Becomes

4 cups water, 2 cups sugar, .5 teas. Yeast

Okay this brought up another question. Do you add baking soda to this mixture to stabilize it and how much?

I think I am done for now. Thanks for your help.

[Chrona]

Simplcity is key here. First off yes, you would just use twice the amount of everything. 1/4 teaspoon baking soda is used per 2 liters to buffer the water, as CO2 production turns it quite acidic and can slow down the bacteria later on.

For the actual unit, a 1 gallon jug is fine. You actually don't really build up that much pressure so unless you plugged something, it won't be a concern. What kind of filter do you have? Many people with DIY rigs just feed the air tubing (through a air stone) into the intake of their filter. The impeller chops up the bubbles into a fine mist. You can get a glass diffuser if you want, but the sintered glass on them tends to clog up. As an alternative, you can try that reactor you posted, but it's more $$$

Don't bother with a gas seperator. Just don't fill the container past 3 inches from the top and you will never have any problems with yeast solution getting into your tank. A check valve is helpful, but only for right after you put in a new solution (the somewhat warm water will cool down and draw in liquid), and right when a solution runs out (no more pressure)

Vinyl tubing works fine. It breaks down over time but it's cheap so you can just make another. Silicone tubing works the best apparently. You can get some at a local hobby shop that sells RC equipment, as the fuel lines used in nitro RC cars are made of the same stuff. I have yet to test the diameter of it though, but it should be pretty close.

[hungryhound]

Thanks Chrona.

I had allready ordered the reactor so that is taken care off. I have a hang on the back filter, and did not want to feed the bubbles up into the impeller causing cavitation. Nor did my wife and I got the green light to get the reactor, and I actually didn't do to bad on the price.

I Know it kind of ruins the whole do it yourself aspect, but we are trying to keep the tank as free of distracting tubes as possable.

With the tubing. I agree it should work. Any tubing shoudl work. I was just checking to see if it was close to the CO2 resistant tubing as they normally don't list what it is made out of.

I am not sure if the tygon is silicon or vinyl, but it is a labratory grade tubing. It is great to having access to bio-chemistry labratory supplier.

Diamneter I am fine on. I beleive that you need 1/8 inside and 1/4 od tubing.

Thanks for all of your help. My wife will be glad to know that we do not need to waste our money pop (That would be a lot of rum to go though as that is the only way that i can drink it:ezpi_wink1: ).

Thanks for your help

[Chrona]

This hobby only gets worse. Soon you'll be "wasting" your money on larger tanks, metal halide lighting fixtures, pressurized CO2 systems, oh my :rolleyes:

[xoolooxunny]

I agree with chrona, keep it simple. I use the gallon method too for my 75 gallon, and have been feeding it into my powerhead for months with no side effects <yet>

[Lady Hobbs]

I thought of using gallon water jugs but went with the soda bottles because I happen to have them. Filled half full with hottest water in my tap, added two cups of sugar and shook the blazes out of it until sugar dissolved. Finished filling (within 3 inches from the top) with cooler water so it is was still lukewarm and added 1/4 t dry yeast. Shook once again for a second and hooked up to my bubbler. It started doing it's thing within an hour.

I have hard water so don't use baking soda. That's only if your water is soft. Very simple without all the gizmo's.

[hungryhound]

I thought of using gallon water jugs but went with the soda bottles because I happen to have them. Filled half full with hottest water in my tap, added two cups of sugar and shook the blazes out of it until sugar dissolved. Finished filling (within 3 inches from the top) with cooler water so it is was still lukewarm and added 1/4 t dry yeast. Shook once again for a second and hooked up to my bubbler. It started doing it's thing within an hour.

I have hard water so don't use baking soda. That's only if your water is soft. Very simple without all the gizmo's.

I defiantly will use your method of dissolving the sugar before I add the yeast when setting up my system. I'm guessing that I can leave the baking soda out as well as our tap water has a GH of 12 and a KH of 5.

[Lady Hobbs]

Whatever yeast you don't use, refrigerator it or it will go dead.

[Chrona]

The carbonic acid formed will slowly eat up your kH so you should still add baking soda. It doesn't hurt in any case :P

[hungryhound]

Okay, thanks!

[Galen]

Something else you may or may not need is to run an airstone at night.

After your DIY is set up and running strong (i.e. reactors are producing, plants fizzing, etc.) assuming you have fish and depending on their numbers, check on them after the lights have been off for a few hours. Keeping the CO2 in the water requires minimal surface agitation and plants use oxygen when the lights are off as opposed to producing it when they're on so levels can become unbalanced at night with CO2 production constant and plants not making use of it.

One way to alleviate unfortunate possibilities is the addition of an airstone/pump set-up ran on a timer to come on when the lights go out and off again when they're back on.

Never had the need myself but i've heard of it being an issue for others.

P.S. Bubble counters are easily made by way of DIY, are handy visible aids for your DIY production, and function as checkvalves depending on your set-up.

[hungryhound]

Something else you may or may not need is to run an airstone at night.


Thank you for the tip, I will keep this in mind as I set it up, and should be an easy fix if I need to. My hope all along has been to make it so that this is not needed as my wife is allready complaining that i am making it more complicated than it needs to be allready.



P.S. Bubble counters are easily made by way of DIY, are handy visible aids for your DIY production, and function as checkvalves depending on your set-up.

I read in one place where you could make one for about 10 bucks. But I just decided to spend 24 on a reactor with a bubble counter and check valve built in. Kind of ruins the DIY approach but it should help.

I many try turning off the reactor at night for now, as it will still allow the co2 in the tank(i.e. I will ot be making a bomb), but will not be actively trying to dissolve co2 in the water and should lower the amount that actually gets dissolved at night.

[Lady Hobbs]

I have one of these cheapie bubble counters and I can't figure out why it's called a counter. Doesn't count anything and can't be adjusted to bubble any more or less. It actually does no more than dropping the line into the water without it.

I have one of these but just the "counter". http://www.petsolutions.com/Images/100/15517698.jpg (http://www.petsolutions.com/Plant+Gro+CO2+System-I-15517690-I-C-101425-C-.aspx)

It should be called the bubble "holder". haha

[xoolooxunny]

hobbs, that "counter" just lets the bubble sit in the water and dissolve more, before it reaches the top. If you watch it, the bubble gets smaller as it goes to the top of the zig-zag.

[Chrona]

Bubble counters are pointless imo. You can just drill a small hole into the intake tube of your HOB below the waterline and stick the tubing right in. It's actually much more effective, and not an eyesore

[Lady Hobbs]

hobbs, that "counter" just lets the bubble sit in the water and dissolve more, before it reaches the top. If you watch it, the bubble gets smaller as it goes to the top of the zig-zag.

Mine wasn't going up the steps until I read your post and moved the slant in the bottom of the tube in that direction. Thanks I know have something new to do with my days. I can sit and watch the bubbles climb that little ladder. Cool.

[xoolooxunny]

Bubble counters are pointless imo. You can just drill a small hole into the intake tube of your HOB below the waterline and stick the tubing right in. It's actually much more effective, and not an eyesore

I don't use a counter either, mine goes right into the powerhead intake, the sponge i bought separately to cover the intake from my little friends holds it in place. works great!

[hungryhound]

Thanks for all of your help guys. The CO2 system is now up and running. Hopefully I will go home to find my plants pearling. One can dream right.

[Chrona]

Thanks for all of your help guys. The CO2 system is now up and running. Hopefully I will go home to find my plants pearling. One can dream right.

Good luck ^_^

[hungryhound]

This hobby only gets worse. Soon you'll be "wasting" your money on larger tanks, metal halide lighting fixtures, pressurized CO2 systems, oh my

Are you sure that this has not already begun. Getting the fish was a spur of the moment decision. My wife and I had wanted one for a while, but just bought the tank on a whim one day. And with our Betta that we tried to rescue who would not live in our community tank, we are now up to two tanks. We have been taken hook, line and sinker by this hobby.

[Chrona]

Are you sure that this has not already begun. Getting the fish was a spur of the moment decision. My wife and I had wanted one for a while, but just bought the tank on a whim one day. And with our Betta that we tried to rescue who would not live in our community tank, we are now up to two tanks. We have been taken hook, line and sinker by this hobby.

Well at least your wife is in on it too so you aren't fighting battles on multiple fronts ;)

[hungryhound]

Chrona,

Sorry to ask again. I seem to have lost the link you provided on where to buy chemicals. I am currently looking at THis SITE (http://www.everybodysgardencenter.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=54)

I got this link off the planted tank and I know it is different than the link you sent me. On this site I can get the k2SO4, kNO3, and the Potassium phosphate for 19 bucks shipped and I wanted to compare prices.

Thanks for your help.

[Chrona]

Should be fine. Most people prefer Greg Watson: www.aquariumfertilizer.com but a chemical is a chemical right? Price is the same as well. After you get the ferts in, shoot me a pm and I can help you out with dosing.

[hungryhound]

Thanks for the link chrona, and I will shoot you a link if i have problems. In the mean time I think that I will try to do some more research and maybe put my chemistry degree to god use.

[Chrona]

Thanks for the link chrona, and I will shoot you a link if i have problems. In the mean time I think that I will try to do some more research and maybe put my chemistry degree to god use.

Should have majored in marine biology ;)

[hungryhound]

Should have majored in marine biology ;)

Well, I have 4 semester hours of Marine Biology and a Biology Major to boot. So I'm pretty much there :)

[hungryhound]

Today was not a good day in my fish tank.

I was all happy when I checked the pH this morning and my pH had dropped from 7.6 to 7.2. It seemed like I was well on my way to getting this sorted out.

Unfourtunately when I came home from work this afternoon my pH had rocketed back up to 7.6. Which I can live with, but we also experienced a few other side effects.

One Otto cat carcus was found in the middle of the aquarium, and when we tried to do a head count of our other fish two yo yo loaches were missing. We searched the tank high and low and could find no sign of them. Not even a body. We removed all tank decorations and still could not find them. We know they were there yesterday as they made the daily head count, but there was no sign of them today. We can only assume that they died and our hungry little fish polished them off. I am guessing that since they were a scale less fish their entire carcus was consumed.

Water peramiters last night and today were the same at
0ppm ammonia
0ppm nitrites
10ppm nitrates

The only thing that changes was the fluctuation in the pH. Am I right in assuming that this is most likely the cause of these three deaths?

If so what do I need to do to keep this from happening in the future?

[hungryhound]

We now have a separate thought and concern. We know that surface agitation will cause CO2 to be released into the atmosphere. How do you keep from having a large pH swing when you do a water change?

[hungryhound]

i am bumping this up because I could use a little help here.

I do have an update on my problem. Here is how my pH has fluxuated the past three days.

thursday night pH = 7.6
Friday 8:00 am pH=7.2
Friday 3:00 pm pH =7.6 (three dead fish
Friday 9:00 pm pH =7.6
Saturday 8:00 am pH = 7.0

So it looks like I am having the dreaded night spikes. My only concern is that at night is the only time when i can get the pH down around to where I want it to be.

Is this a case that i do not have enough c02 going into the setup during the day to cancel out the plants use of it? Therefore my pH does not drop. And at night is able to drop without the plants stealing the carbon.

I am assuming that i want the 7.0 to 6.7 pH in my tank. The question is how do I keep it constant,

Do you think adding another bottle to my system will give me the power to keep my co2 down at my target during the day. Then maybe trying turning off my reactor at night so that it is not doing active diffusion at night to limit my night spikes.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan. i have already lost three fish i do not want to lose any more.

[xoolooxunny]

The only thing I could suggest is to aerate the tank at night, but that would most likely keep your tank at the 7.6 level it sees during the day. imo, constant ph at 7.6 is better than swinging every day and night. maybe set the airpump on a timer to turn on a half hour after the lights turn out and off a half hour before they come back on. There is definitely more c02 in your tank at night, and perhaps your yoyos died of oxygen starvation over night.

[Lady Hobbs]

My understanding is at night with no lights, the CO2 is not being used so pH will drop. Using an airstone will work as a stabilizer and drive some of the CO2 off which should help with the pH and keep it from dropping.

If you have soft water, a pinch of baking soda added to your CO2 bottles will help buffer your water as well to help prevent those swings.

I'm at total newbie at this planted tank and CO2 myself so also having my problems understanding some of it. If my understanding is correct, even brighter lights uses more CO2.

In my case, my pH hardly moves at all and I constantly forget to turn the airstone on at night. I like my scenerio better than yours, tho, as I'd hate to worry about big swings.

Sorry I can offer no help with your situation. All I can think of is maybe adding a tad more baking soda to your bottles but others will correct me here if this is not the way to go.

[hungryhound]

The only thing I could suggest is to aerate the tank at night, but that would most likely keep your tank at the 7.6 level it sees during the day. imo, constant ph at 7.6 is better than swinging every day and night. maybe set the airpump on a timer to turn on a half hour after the lights turn out and off a half hour before they come back on. There is definitely more c02 in your tank at night, and perhaps your yoyos died of oxygen starvation over night.

i understand what you are saying, and understand that by aerating my tank at night I will release some of the extra co2 that is in my tank. The problem is that it is the night and morning pH that I want and not the day time. Is there any way to keep my night spike constant during the day, and keep it from driopping even farther at night.

I doubt that it was co2 asphyxiation that killed the fish as with a drop from 7.6 to 7.2 only gives me a CO2 concentration of roughly 12 ppm and you need to get up into the range of 40 to 50 ppm Co2 before your fish start to show signs and symptoms. I am pretty sure that it was the drastic switch in pH that killed them as if it was asphyxiation i would have expected to lose all 5 YOYO's as they would have similar oxygen needs.

I do agree though that i need to limit the CO2 coming into my tank at night. I have a an active reactor that pumps water into a chamber with the CO2 to dissolve it. My idea is to turn this reactor off at night, so that the CO2 coming into my tank will not be actively dissolved and instead will bubble to the surface where it will be released into the atmosphere.

[hungryhound]

My understanding is at night with no lights, the CO2 is not being used so pH will drop. Using an airstone will work as a stabilizer and drive some of the CO2 off which should help with the pH and keep it from dropping.

Agreed. I understand this concept and am trying to keep it from dropping at night, but the problem is that i want the pH at what it is dropping to at night and want it to remain stable during th day at the night pH of 7.0. My problem is more how do I keep the pH from going up during the day than down at night.



If you have soft water, a pinch of baking soda added to your CO2 bottles will help buffer your water as well to help prevent those swings.

Good suggestion and already done.



I'm at total newbie at this planted tank and CO2 myself so also having my problems understanding some of it. If my understanding is correct, even brighter lights uses more CO2.

In my case, my pH hardly moves at all and I constantly forget to turn the airstone on at night. I like my scenerio better than yours, tho, as I'd hate to worry about big swings.

Sorry I can offer no help with your situation. All I can think of is maybe adding a tad more baking soda to your bottles but others will correct me here if this is not the way to go.

I agree I would much rather have your problem at the moment.

[xoolooxunny]

After reading all of that, my next suggestion would be to crank up the C02 during the day when the lights are on. maybe this is why your ph goes up so high in the day: Same amount of co2 going in, but the plants are using up, leaving co2 levels in the water lower than they were at night. Try adding more c02 during the day and keeping the same amount you have now going in at night.

I think it's fair to assume this problem is co2 related.

[Chrona]

Hm, sorry to hear that and sorry that I did not shoot off a reply sooner. I leave my CO2 running 24/7 (which is what the vast majority of DIY co2 users do) If the pH rises during the day, it means not enough is going into the tank and the plant consumption rate exceeds the rate at which you put it into the tank(or if something is wrong mechanically with the CO2 system - which I'm assuming you have already checked). In my tank, my pH during the day is about 6.6 and at night it is about 6.4, which does not seem to bother the fish at all (I have 3 oto cats too) Since you have an active reactor, you can use it like a solenoid in a pressurized system and shut it off at night, but I have never seen anyone who said this was required for DIY co2 (or even pressurized for that matter)

What is the reactor rated to? And how many bubbles per minute do you have coming out now? (Aprox) How good is the water flow around the reactor? (meaning how well is the enriched water spread around the tank?)


To be honest, I don't think it was merely the rise in pH, as I do 50% water changes where my pH goes from 6.6 to 7.2 in a matter of seconds (then falls back down to 6.6) without an issue. Your rise in pH would have been very slow during the day. If it is pH related, then it would be the drop at night that induces stress, since it will occur within a timespan of about 30-45 minutes. I read an article somewhere about how fish are MUCH more tolerant to changes in pH from CO2 than say, pH changes from chemicals because the chemicals raise the total dissolved solids as well. I'll see if I can find it again.

Do you notice fish gasping for air at any time during the day?

Adding baking soda will increase your base pH, but if you already have more than 1-2 degrees (which you do) then it doesn't buffer pH drop due to CO2 at all. 30 ppm of CO2 will drop your pH by 1.0 degrees regardless.

[xoolooxunny]

I doubt that it was co2 asphyxiation that killed the fish as with a drop from 7.6 to 7.2 only gives me a CO2 concentration of roughly 12 ppm and you need to get up into the range of 40 to 50 ppm Co2 before your fish start to show signs and symptoms. I am pretty sure that it was the drastic switch in pH that killed them as if it was asphyxiation i would have expected to lose all 5 YOYO's as they would have similar oxygen needs.

I meant that maybe the fish were fighting for an oxygen supply at night, since the plants are using it too. A shortage of oxygen does not necessarily mean all the fish will die off, as I was testing the waters at a man-made lake for an ecology project and discovered that fish were dying of oxygen starvation over night, since the lake was plagued with algae and plants. There were plenty of fish in the lake, just some of the weaker ones had died and washed up over night.

[Chrona]

His fish died during the day though, which rules out O2 depletion.

[xoolooxunny]

His fish died during the day though, which rules out O2 depletion.
OH MAN! Did I read that wrong or what?? Sorry guys, man do I feel stupid right now...:14:

[Chrona]

OH MAN! Did I read that wrong or what?? Sorry guys, man do I feel stupid right now...:14:

Don't feel stupid, I thought the same thing when I first read it. Lot of info to digest :P

[hungryhound]

After reading all of that, my next suggestion would be to crank up the C02 during the day when the lights are on. maybe this is why your ph goes up so high in the day: Same amount of co2 going in, but the plants are using up, leaving co2 levels in the water lower than they were at night. Try adding more c02 during the day and keeping the same amount you have now going in at night.

I think it's fair to assume this problem is co2 related.

agreed and this is what I am leaning twoards.


Hm, sorry to hear that and sorry that I did not shoot off a reply sooner. I leave my CO2 running 24/7 (which is what the vast majority of DIY co2 users do) If the pH rises during the day, it means not enough is going into the tank and the plant consumption rate exceeds the rate at which you put it into the tank(or if something is wrong mechanically with the CO2 system - which I'm assuming you have already checked). In my tank, my pH during the day is about 6.6 and at night it is about 6.4, which does not seem to bother the fish at all (I have 3 oto cats too) Since you have an active reactor, you can use it like a solenoid in a pressurized system and shut it off at night, but I have never seen anyone who said this was required for DIY co2 (or even pressurized for that matter)

okay makes sense. So then I need to add another bottle.


What is the reactor rated to? And how many bubbles per minute do you have coming out now? (Aprox) How good is the water flow around the reactor? (meaning how well is the enriched water spread around the tank?)

The reactor is a red sea 500 reactor. Rated for

Highly effective vortex reaction chamber
Adjustable flow 250 l/h (65 gal/h) pump
Super compact design 9.5 x 4 x 5.5 cm (3.75” x 1.6” x 2.2”)
Dissolves CO2 at flow rates of up to 180 bubbles per minute
Suitable for planted aquariums 40 to 500 Liters (10 – 125 gal)

link (http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/co2reactor.asp)

It is placed right under the HOB filter so any water coming out of it should be sucked up by the filter dispersing it throughout the tank.

Bubbles per minute is at around 6 to 10 per minute. To hard to count, but to me this seems like it should be more than enough.



To be honest, I don't think it was merely the rise in pH, as I do 50% water changes where my pH goes from 6.6 to 7.2 in a matter of seconds (then falls back down to 6.6) without an issue. Your rise in pH would have been very slow during the day. If it is pH related, then it would be the drop at night that induces stress, since it will occur within a timespan of about 30-45 minutes. I read an article somewhere about how fish are MUCH more tolerant to changes in pH from CO2 than say, pH changes from chemicals because the chemicals raise the total dissolved solids as well. I'll see if I can find it again.

okay then it is a mystery death. just need to keep it from happening again.



Do you notice fish gasping for air at any time during the day?
No, I have never seen my fish grasp9ing for air.



Adding baking soda will increase your base pH, but if you already have more than 1-2 degrees (which you do) then it doesn't buffer pH drop due to CO2 at all. 30 ppm of CO2 will drop your pH by 1.0 degrees regardless.

I am already at a KH of 5 I do not believe that i need to add more baking soda. My gallon jug with a kH of five got a .5 teaspoon of baking soda in it.

[hungryhound]

OH MAN! Did I read that wrong or what?? Sorry guys, man do I feel stupid right now...:14:

as chrona said don't feel stupid. I am just happy to have the help trying to figure out this problem. thanks for the help.

[Chrona]

Wait, 6-10 bubbles per minute? You need about 2-3 bubbbles per second. I have 1 bubble per second in my 10g to get 30ppm of CO2

And I'm still scratching my head on the fish deaths. I didn't mean to leave you hanging :P

[Chrona]

And a gallon jug should be more than capable of producing 2-3 bubbles per second. Perhaps add more yeast (dissolved into a little bit of warm water first)?

EDIT: Start with 1-1.5 bps first. Keep forgetting you have a really efficient reactor. Its easier to go up in bubble rate than down with DIY anyways

[hungryhound]

And a gallon jug should be more than capable of producing 2-3 bubbles per second. Perhaps add more yeast (dissolved into a little bit of warm water first)?

EDIT: Start with 1-1.5 bps first. Keep forgetting you have a really efficient reactor

sorry chrona. i meant to say 6 to 10 a second. It was so fast i could not count it.

As to the fish deaths. We had a resurrection. I swear last night we tore the entire tank apart and my wife watched half and I watched half and at most we could find was three yoyos. Well low and behold we now have 4 Yoyo loaches. Hear is to hoping the other is also a master of disguise.

[Chrona]

And also, I would recommend registering for www.plantedtank.net and posting question there as well. I'm no expert (and I've never claimed to be - since I'm fairly new to the stuff too) so the people there with like 20-30 years experience may be able to help you out as well (and probably quicker).

One more thing, is there any yeast /visible stuff in the tubing line?

And to count the bubbles, just yank the air tubing out and stick it in the water.

[hungryhound]

And also, I would recommend registering for www.plantedtank.net and posting question there as well. I'm no expert (and I've never claimed to be - since I'm fairly new to the stuff too) so the people there with like 20-30 years experience may be able to help you out as well (and probably quicker).

One more thing, is there any yeast /visible stuff in the tubing line?

And to count the bubbles, just yank the air tubing out and stick it in the water.

but i like talking to you guys. Everyone is so friendly here.

as to counting the bubbles. That is what i did. i detached the tubing from the reactor and stuck it in the water. IT was a constant stream of bubbles, that made it too hard to count.

there is no yeast in the airline tubing. I actually left about 6 inches between the top of the container and the water level to avoid this. As i think my wife would kill me if it exploded.

[Chrona]

sorry chrona. i meant to say 6 to 10 a second. It was so fast i could not count it.

As to the fish deaths. We had a resurrection. I swear last night we tore the entire tank apart and my wife watched half and I watched half and at most we could find was three yoyos. Well low and behold we now have 4 Yoyo loaches. Hear is to hoping the other is also a master of disguise.

o.O ?!?!?!

Normal bps rate for a 55g planted tank is like 2-4 bps. I'm really stumped now. 6-10 should give you more than enough

EDIT: HMMMMMMMMM. Seems like you are not the only person with CO2 problems using a RS 500 reactor

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/water-parameters/42017-help-me-increase-my-co2.html?highlight=bubble+rate


And I checked various posts. Seems everyone get pH swings from day to night of 0.4-0.6 without any problems.

[hungryhound]

I am reading that now. It could be the reactors problem, but I am not sure that i am experiencing what he is. I don't have gas escaping from the reactor because the chamber is too full. I will have to delve into the situation a little more.

Thanks for the help.

[Lady Hobbs]

I don't know about these bubblers. I know mine all slowed down a lot in the first week to barely giving bubbles at all for nearly a full minute. hungryhounds is going like crazy. What makes the difference other than the amount of yeast we use?

I started with 1/4 t. and have added another 1/4 t when they slowed right down.

[Chrona]

I don't know about these bubblers. I know mine all slowed down a lot in the first week to barely giving bubbles at all for nearly a full minute. hungryhounds is going like crazy. What makes the difference other than the amount of yeast we use?

I started with 1/4 t. and have added another 1/4 t when they slowed right down.

Bubble production is HIGHLY dependent on ambient temperature. If you keep a cold house, you'll need more yeast to compensate, hence there is not "set" recipe for everyone. You need to be getting at least 1 bubble per second. If you have the sugar, the dechlorinated water, the baking soda, then it means you need more yeast.

[hungryhound]

I don't know about these bubblers. I know mine all slowed down a lot in the first week to barely giving bubbles at all for nearly a full minute. hungryhounds is going like crazy. What makes the difference other than the amount of yeast we use?

I started with 1/4 t. and have added another 1/4 t when they slowed right down.

No clue Lady Hobbs. But keep in mind that I have a double recipe compared to you since i am using a gallon jug and not a 2 liter bottle.

Chrona. The last post states that he got a new one and it was working perfectly. So am still a little confused, but I will figure this out. My light has now been on for an hour. I am going to go check and see what the pH is doing.

[Chrona]

but i like talking to you guys. Everyone is so friendly here.

as to counting the bubbles. That is what i did. i detached the tubing from the reactor and stuck it in the water. IT was a constant stream of bubbles, that made it too hard to count.

there is no yeast in the airline tubing. I actually left about 6 inches between the top of the container and the water level to avoid this. As i think my wife would kill me if it exploded.

I'm not saying that you can't stay here ;)

I'm just saying that posting questions on two forums gives you more opinions, as I may be wrong (and have been) on various issues.

[Chrona]

Chrona. The last post states that he got a new one and it was working perfectly. So am still a little confused, but I will figure this out. My light has now been on for an hour. I am going to go check and see what the pH is doing.

He got a second one, not a new one. However, if you don't have an overspill with 6-10 bps with yours....it means everything is dissolving.....lemme think about it. The fact of the matter is that you simply don't have enough CO2 going in (shown by your pH). What the reason is.....hm.

[hungryhound]

yeah I know and will probably do that shortly. I think I am going to get another days worth of data first. it has only been an hour but my pH is still at 7 as i would expect. I will check it again before my buckeyes play nd see what is going on.

[hungryhound]

update on my situation.

thursday night pH = 7.6
Friday 8:00 am pH=7.2
Friday 3:00 pm pH =7.6 (three dead fish
Friday 9:00 pm pH =7.6
Saturday 8:00 am pH = 7.0
Saturday 5:00 pm pH = 7.6
Saturday 8:00 hook second gallon jug up
sunday 1:00 am pH 7.2
Sunday 8:00 am pH 7.2
sunday 11:00 am lights come on
sunday 1:00 pm pH back at 7.6

I have so much CO2 going into the tank i cannot tell what is wrong. Over the night with my reactor off I got a nice contingent of cO2 bubbles that cover a surface area of 5 square inches at the top of my tank.

But when the CO2 kicks on when the lights kick on, i don't seem to be wasting co2, It does not seem like the CO2 is wasted as I see no bubbles escape out of my reactor. Which tells me that the CO2 going into the reactor should be making it into solution. I am starting to wonder if, even with the reactor needle valve opened full throttle, it is still limiting the flow into the system, and I am only getting one to two bubbles per minute through the valve instead of the 6 to 7 that my DIY is putting out.

If so I am not sure what I am going to do?

Any ideas. It may be that I need to wait for my canister filter to arrive and bubble it into it.

[Chrona]

update on my situation.

thursday night pH = 7.6
Friday 8:00 am pH=7.2
Friday 3:00 pm pH =7.6 (three dead fish
Friday 9:00 pm pH =7.6
Saturday 8:00 am pH = 7.0
Saturday 5:00 pm pH = 7.6
Saturday 8:00 hook second gallon jug up
sunday 1:00 am pH 7.2
Sunday 8:00 am pH 7.2
sunday 11:00 am lights come on
sunday 1:00 pm pH back at 7.6

I have so much CO2 going into the tank i cannot tell what is wrong. Over the night with my reactor off I got a nice contingent of cO2 bubbles that cover a surface area of 5 square inches at the top of my tank.

But when the CO2 kicks on when the lights kick on, i don't seem to be wasting co2, It does not seem like the CO2 is wasted as I see no bubbles escape out of my reactor. Which tells me that the CO2 going into the reactor should be making it into solution. I am starting to wonder if, even with the reactor needle valve opened full throttle, it is still limiting the flow into the system, and I am only getting one to two bubbles per minute through the valve instead of the 6 to 7 that my DIY is putting out.

If so I am not sure what I am going to do?

Any ideas. It may be that I need to wait for my canister filter to arrive and bubble it into it.

Hm, is there a constant visible vortex in the reactor?

[hungryhound]

Hm, is there a constant visible vortex in the reactor?

Most defiantly!

[Chrona]

Boy, I dunno what to tell ya. I'd seriously recommend posting over at plantedtank. If you can't get a straight answer there, try posting at the www.barrreport.com forums. Tom Barr is basically a planted tank guru and will most often answer your questions himself.

[hungryhound]

Boy, I dunno what to tell ya. I'd seriously recommend posting over at plantedtank. If you can't get a straight answer there, try posting at the www.barrreport.com forums. Tom Barr is basically a planted tank guru and will most often answer your questions himself.

Thanks for all your help. I've signed-up for a planted tank account, but have only lurked so far, but I'll try and get something up tonight.

[hungryhound]

i think I may have figured out my problem. When I was counting the bubbles I was just sticking the tube into the water. Well I Stuck the tube in the water and held it there for a while and the pressure in the system dissipated, adn my bubble rate slowed down. When I held it at the top I was getting about 1 to 2 bubbles per minute, but when I submerged the tube to the level of the co2 reactor I was getting 0. I think that i am going to try and up the co2 production by adding a teaspoon of yeast to each reactor.

[Chrona]

i think I may have figured out my problem. When I was counting the bubbles I was just sticking the tube into the water. Well I Stuck the tube in the water and held it there for a while and the pressure in the system dissipated, adn my bubble rate slowed down. When I held it at the top I was getting about 1 to 2 bubbles per minute, but when I submerged the tube to the level of the co2 reactor I was getting 0. I think that i am going to try and up the co2 production by adding a teaspoon of yeast to each reactor.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

The satisfaction of discovering the problem. I'm living it vicariously through you ;)

Before you add yeast though, put the tubing at the level of the CO2 reactor and wait about 5 minutes. Sometimes the yeast solution loses pressure and needs to build it back up again before it can pump out CO2 at a deeper depth

[hungryhound]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

The satisfaction of discovering the problem. I'm living it vicariously through you ;)

Before you add yeast though, put the tubing at the level of the CO2 reactor and wait about 5 minutes. Sometimes the yeast solution loses pressure and needs to build it back up again before it can pump out CO2 at a deeper depth

oops. I allready added a the yeast.

I will do what you are suggesting though,. and see what i can get. FO course I will have to hold my hand in the tank for 5 minutes. I hope the gouramis don't decide to nibble on my hand like they did earlier today. I will let you know how it goes.

[Chrona]

oops. I allready added a the yeast.

I will do what you are suggesting though,. and see what i can get. FO course I will have to hold my hand in the tank for 5 minutes. I hope the gouramis don't decide to nibble on my hand like they did earlier today. I will let you know how it goes.

My dwarf likes to bite at a spot I have on my arm whenever I'm trimming plants, so you aren't the only one ;)

[hungryhound]

My dwarf likes to bite at a spot I have on my arm whenever I'm trimming plants, so you aren't the only one ;)

yeah it was my dwarf gouramis. I really startled me earlier when I was replanting some things that had come loose.

on to the task at hand. The reactor is about 3 inches from the top of the tank. I held the tubing for about 7 minutes at that level and nothing happened. For the first 3 to four I could see the gas creeping down the tube as the pressure was building but and then it just sat there for the next 3 to 4 and my arm decided that it was tired and that ended that experiment. IT had only pressurized to an inch below the surface and I did not feel like standing there for another 20 minutes.

I will have to wait and see what the yeast solution does. Of course we won't know anything until tommarow.

But once again I feel like I am on the right track.:)

[Chrona]

yeah it was my dwarf gouramis. I really startled me earlier when I was replanting some things that had come loose.

on to the task at hand. The reactor is about 3 inches from the top of the tank. I held the tubing for about 7 minutes at that level and nothing happened. For the first 3 to four I could see the gas creeping down the tube as the pressure was building but and then it just sat there for the next 3 to 4 and my arm decided that it was tired and that ended that experiment. IT had only pressurized to an inch below the surface and I did not feel like standing there for another 20 minutes.

I will have to wait and see what the yeast solution does. Of course we won't know anything until tommarow.

But once again I feel like I am on the right track.:)

Hm, well that's certainly interesting that the tubing doesn't put out any bubbles when disconnected, but puts out enough to fill the reactor when it is connected. Double check to make sure anything hasn't started leaking, since the gas just stopping indicates either that or your yeast solution dying. My guess would be that there is a slight leak that allows the tank to pressurize somewhat, but not enough to drive the water down past an inch.

[hungryhound]

Hm, well that's certainly interesting that the tubing doesn't put out any bubbles when disconnected, but puts out enough to fill the reactor when it is connected. Double check to make sure anything hasn't started leaking, since the gas just stopping indicates either that or your yeast solution dying.

will do. I did double check the caps on the bottles but I will check all connections.

[Chrona]

will do. I did double check the caps on the bottles but I will check all connections.

Check where you siliconed the tubing to the caps as well. That's the culprit most of the time.

[hungryhound]

to me everything looks okay, and the reactor is still going strong with bubbles. what specifically am I looking for with the silicone sealant on the caps. It still appears to be attached, and looks no different than when i first put it together.

THe only fool proof way I can think of is to submerge it in water, but I don't feel like making a mess of my living room.

[Chrona]

to me everything looks okay, and the reactor is still going strong with bubbles. what specifically am I looking for with the silicone sealant on the caps. It still appears to be attached, and looks no different than when i first put it together.

THe only fool proof way I can think of is to submerge it in water, but I don't feel like making a mess of my living room.

Put some soapy water on the connection (the silicone part) and blow into the air tubing.

[Chrona]

Actually, now that I think about it, how long has your CO2 been running? If it really was going at 6-8 bps, then it's possible the solution ran out (alcohol overdose). Does the container really reek of alcohol?

[hungryhound]

Put some soapy water on the connection (the silicone part) and blow into the air tubing.

You know, that is kind of nasty when you stop blowing into the system and all of that nasty yeast air blows back in your face. No leaks or problems.

[Chrona]

You know, that is kind of nasty when you stop blowing into the system and all of that nasty yeast air blows back in your face. No leaks or problems.

lol, we all need to take one for the team at some point ;)

Sounds like CO2 production died then. Really no other explanation for it not being able to push the CO2 past an inch of depth. Now you REALLY need to take one for the team and take a swig of the solution to test it's alcohol content. :wink2:

[hungryhound]

lol, we all need to take one for the team at some point ;)

Sounds like CO2 production died then. Really no other explanation for it not being able to push the CO2 past an inch of depth. Now you REALLY need to take one for the team and take a swig of the solution to test it's alcohol content. :wink2:

I think that I will pass, and am a little surprised if it is dead allready as one bottle is only 24 hours old. I don't have enough sugar tonight to make a new batch so I will see where I am tomorrow.

[Chrona]

I think that I will pass, and am a little surprised if it is dead allready as one bottle is only 24 hours old. I don't have enough sugar tonight to make a new batch so I will see where I am tomorrow.

I think you are nearing Hobb's status in terms of having unknown issues with your tank.....heh

I guess we'll wait and see what the morning brings

[zeon]

Really REALLY old post. But please if you did find out what the problem was can you let us know? It was like reading a book here on this thread and then the last page was torn out. Please?

[cocoa_pleco]

hungryhound is rarely on anymore