How do you increase Nitrates in your tank?

[Willyleigh]

I have a planted tank and want to add more plants to it, however my nitrates are already very low and I am worried that there will not be enough nutrients in the water to support the extra plants, what can I do about it??

[Lady Hobbs]

You want low nitrates for your fish. Your chemistry may also change once you add plants. I am venturing just now into my first planted tank. I woke up to algae from hell, too. Tank is still cycling so I can't do much with it right now.

[xoolooxunny]

I'm pretty sure the low nitrates just mean that the plants are pulling what they need from the water, while what you get for a reading is leftover. If, after you add more plants the nitrates are almost non-existent, there is a supplement you can add to the water, its called KN03, potassium nitrate. IF you do in fact need to add this stuff, make sure your steady levels stay around 5 ppm, I'm pretty sure thats all the plants need

[sergo]

holy crap!!!! i have the same problem! i was almost covinced that my test was bad until i used some houseplant ferts to find out it wasn't. i'll be keeping an eye on this thread. also my phosphates are only 1-2 ppm. my plants are sucking it up. i have a diy co2 system in the works but i've got get my nitrates up first.

[Chrona]

Here you go. Just ordered from stuff from them myself. Everyone on every planted tank forum swears by these guys, since wet (premixed) fert is so darn expensive. Lemme know if you need dosing information. There's a Estimative Index method of dosing that doesn't require you to test the water constantly.

http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/

[Chrona]

http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/62-estimative-index-dosing-no-need-test-kits.html

The EI method of dosing.

I learned something new today, when they say excessive nutrients causing algae blooms, it's extra ammonia (more specifically ammonium), not iron, nitrates, phosphate.

[Lady Hobbs]

Since over feeding causes higher nitrates, can't you toss in some extra fish food now and then. (I know. Stupid comment for new plant grower.)

Chrona, are you saying the ammonia causes algae bloom? My tank was a horrible mess yesterday and I did two total water changes, filled the tank again and added ammonia and now it's clear. SO.....now I am confused even more by your statement.

Splain.

[Scuba Guy]

My experience is that fish will produce a steady level of Nitrates via the Nitrogen cycle (NH3/4 to NO3) and bacteria. But if you have high light and CO2, fish food and fish are not enough.

I add Greg Watson's Nitrate. He sells one pound at a time and it will last you a very long time (years?). I keep my Nitrate at around 10ppm with the high light. Lower light and 5 ppm is sufficient.

[Chrona]

Since over feeding causes higher nitrates, can't you toss in some extra fish food now and then. (I know. Stupid comment for new plant grower.)

Chrona, are you saying the ammonia causes algae bloom? My tank was a horrible mess yesterday and I did two total water changes, filled the tank again and added ammonia and now it's clear. SO.....now I am confused even more by your statement.

Splain.

I'm just saying what I read from the website. Algae can be attributed to many things, one of which is excess nutrients. The common belief is that these nutrients are nitrate and phosphate, but the tests performed by this guy (who planted tank owners swear by) indicate that ammonium is the culprit. However, this in no way means that all algae is caused by excess nutrients.

http://www.rexgrigg.com/Algae1.html

[marek313]

High ammonia is usually not the cause from my understanding. Its low light and low CO2 with high ammonia that will cause green water but most other forms are caused by some sort of water imbalance or not enough ligh or CO2. Most of the time there is something missing that slows everything down and creates problems which most of the time presents itself as algea. I recommend checking light CO2 and them Iron and phosphate and other micronutrients. Not enough light and CO2 and plants wont be able to use the nutrients from the water and bam you got algea. I wouldnt put that much blame on ammonia or ammonium when it comes to algea. I know everyone has a theory and this one is just mine but everyones tank and water is different. There is no miracle cure that will work for everyone. You have to find how to balance your aqarium.
This is just my two cents since I'm still working on my ow aquarium which you can see here:

http://home.comcast.net/~marek313/index.htm

[sergo]

High ammonia is usually not the cause from my understanding. Its low light and low CO2 with high ammonia that will cause green water but most other forms are caused by some sort of water imbalance or not enough ligh or CO2. Most of the time there is something missing that slows everything down and creates problems which most of the time presents itself as algea. I recommend checking light CO2 and them Iron and phosphate and other micronutrients. Not enough light and CO2 and plants wont be able to use the nutrients from the water and bam you got algea. I wouldnt put that much blame on ammonia or ammonium when it comes to algea. I know everyone has a theory and this one is just mine but everyones tank and water is different. There is no miracle cure that will work for everyone. You have to find how to balance your aqarium.
This is just my two cents since I'm still working on my ow aquarium which you can see here:

http://home.comcast.net/~marek313/index.htmnice tank and welcome to ac.

[Chrona]

High ammonia is usually not the cause from my understanding. Its low light and low CO2 with high ammonia that will cause green water but most other forms are caused by some sort of water imbalance or not enough ligh or CO2. Most of the time there is something missing that slows everything down and creates problems which most of the time presents itself as algea. I recommend checking light CO2 and them Iron and phosphate and other micronutrients. Not enough light and CO2 and plants wont be able to use the nutrients from the water and bam you got algea. I wouldnt put that much blame on ammonia or ammonium when it comes to algea. I know everyone has a theory and this one is just mine but everyones tank and water is different. There is no miracle cure that will work for everyone. You have to find how to balance your aqarium.
This is just my two cents since I'm still working on my ow aquarium which you can see here:

http://home.comcast.net/~marek313/index.htm

That's the thing. Common belief has it that that high nitrates/phosphates, etc causes many types of algae in a planted tank. More recently, this has changed to the notion that in imbalance of nutrients causes algae. But Tom Barr (planted tank guru) did an experiment where he didn't let the nitrogen cycle occur, meaning he added nitrate and phosphate in the dry chemical form (in rather excess quantities), and had virtually no issues with the types of algae associated with excess nutrients. Then he ran the same tests using ammonia (in a cycled tank that broke it all the way down to nitrates), and had noticeably more algae issues. This is just the jist of the experiment, it was actually much more scientific than what I am describing. So his theory is that ammonium is a chief cause of algae, since the algae will fight the bacteria and plants for the stuff. This also explains the crazy algae outbreaks at the start of a planted tank, as the tank has not fully cycled and there is excess ammonia floating around.

High light + nutrients (the whole ammonium thing) causes green water. That's why a 24 hour blackout is the recommended cure. The only thing that thrives in low light is brown algae (diatoms)

Iron test kits are a waste of money. I'm sure many other websites will confirm this. Hobby grade testers are not remotely close to accurate.

This of course, by no means is me saying that ammonia is the source of all types of algae. Just that, when "excess nutrients" are involved, ammonium is usually the culprit.

Oh yes, and welcome to AC :)

[marek313]

Thank you for the warm welcome :22:

I can see where access ammonia with moderate to high light would cause green water without a doubt. if thats the case you have either not enough plants or too many fish and if you have ammonia that means the aquarium isnt even cycled properly. I just dont want anyone to blame ammonia on every algea outbreak that you see. I did a lot of research on the internet (thanx to my job for that) before I started my tank. I learned a lot the last few months and I suggest that everyone that wants planted aquarium should do. There is so many parameters involved in having a planted tank and knowing how they are all tied together is the key. Too little and your plants wont grow, too much and you get algea and sick fish. Its a game that I find very challenging. I have a lot of respect for all those nice planted tanks because I know how hard it is to create and take care of one. I'm still working on it.
Going back to nitrate question - Seachem Nitrogen is really good but more expensive then dry fert. It wont increase nitrates as much because it contains other forms of nitrogen including ammonium which plants love. At least my do :hmm3grin2orange:

[Chrona]

Yeah, I did use Seachem Nitrogen for a while, but at 8 bucks a bottle, I think I will get a few lbs of KNO3 that will last me well over a year ;)

One last thing about the algae issue. You are completely right when you said that these are all mere theories. There could be tons of other explanations for various signs we see and the fact remains that the aquarium hobby is still in it's infancy in terms of knowledge. I didn't mean to make it sound like my view was cold hard fact (that's how it usually comes out since that's how I write :P).

[marek313]

I love reading what everyone else thinks and all the theories when it comes to algea. It seems to be one of the hardest things to master as it seems that everyone has a problem with algea at some point. I think I have too much free time on my hands at work because I go through all the forums all day long and believe it or not I run out of stuff to read there too. All that research while I'm getting paid. Kind of makes me feel bad that I threw a fit last week when I told my manager that I'm going to quit unless I get more money :14: Either way keep speculating as I love to read it all
As for Seachem Nitrogen, yes it is a great product like all Seachem products. Yes it is more expensive then dry fert and yes I will be switching to dry fert when I run out of Seachem stuff :) I think Seachem Excel will be the only other thing I'll be buying since there is no dry replacement for that.

[xoolooxunny]

ok, i was having black string algae issues for awhile on my plant leaves, and EVEN THOUGH I use an eco-complete/fluorite mix, the problem went away when i added flourish tabs to the substrate! I couldn't believe it! Now i just have some green hair algae on my fake tree trunk, but i leave it there because it stays short, doesn't spread to the plants, gives the shrimp some munching ground (they love it, they're green!) and it gives the fake decor a more natural look, imo.

[Chrona]

ok, i was having black string algae issues for awhile on my plant leaves, and EVEN THOUGH I use an eco-complete/fluorite mix, the problem went away when i added flourish tabs to the substrate! I couldn't believe it! Now i just have some green hair algae on my fake tree trunk, but i leave it there because it stays short, doesn't spread to the plants, gives the shrimp some munching ground (they love it, they're green!) and it gives the fake decor a more natural look, imo.

Are you adding liquid Flourish too? Or just tabs now? I've always wondered how liquid Flourish was affecting my algae.

[Lady Hobbs]

High ammonia is usually not the cause from my understanding. Its low light and low CO2 with high ammonia that will cause green water but most other forms are caused by some sort of water imbalance or not enough ligh or CO2. Most of the time there is something missing that slows everything down and creates problems which most of the time presents itself as algea. I recommend checking light CO2 and them Iron and phosphate and other micronutrients. Not enough light and CO2 and plants wont be able to use the nutrients from the water and bam you got algea. I wouldnt put that much blame on ammonia or ammonium when it comes to algea. I know everyone has a theory and this one is just mine but everyones tank and water is different. There is no miracle cure that will work for everyone. You have to find how to balance your aqarium.
This is just my two cents since I'm still working on my ow aquarium which you can see here:

http://home.comcast.net/~marek313/index.htm

Just saw your post and your pic. Your plants look very nice and bright green. Looks like you're doing something right. Are you using substrate for plants or are they right in the gravel?

I've been reading so much about planted tanks I'm going cross-eyed. The link that chrona posted advocates large water changes which I've always done but this one killed me with algae afterwards. The only thing I can think of is too much phosphates which I've read will cause an algae bloom. Another theory that is most likely incorrect. LOL

It's clearing up now but taking it's sweet time. Water is hazy but not gunky with algae.

[marek313]

Just saw your post and your pic. Your plants look very nice and bright green. Looks like you're doing something right. Are you using substrate for plants or are they right in the gravel?

I've been reading so much about planted tanks I'm going cross-eyed. The link that chrona posted advocates large water changes which I've always done but this one killed me with algae afterwards. The only thing I can think of is too much phosphates which I've read will cause an algae bloom. Another theory that is most likely incorrect. LOL

It's clearing up now but taking it's sweet time. Water is hazy but not gunky with algae.

I'm using normal gravel. I dont know how much difference it would exactly make if used substrate. I realize that substrate is rich in iron but plants such as sword are heavy root feeders and require root fert of some sort. I dont know if substrate can provide all necessary nutrients by itself. Here is my trick that I use. After my weekly water change I use syringe and fill it with cap full of seachem flourish and rest with water and mix it. Then inject directly under my swords into the gravel. Definitely gives them a nice jolt for the next few days. I add more flourish later on that week into the water along with Excel and Nitrogen. I need to get some seachem tabs to stick in the ground to help my swords as they are getting bigger and require more fert and I need to get some seachem iron as well. Oh well its always something but its all worth it :)

[Lady Hobbs]

It appears you are doing exactly everything right and if and when I ever attempt this planting again, I will also use just gravel. I don't care for the fluorite which will give me a bunch of boo's here I suspect.

Number one.......I do not like the color. I did not get the red but red it is. Of course if the plants were covering the bottom I wouldn't see it anyway. Another thing I found difficult was holding those plants down. Just my featherfin floundering around in the tank at night would uproot half of them. Those with some roots were fine but the bunch plants? Forget it.

What I wouldn't mind trying is the peat plugs. I also think the peat would help soften the water so I may try those for the heavier rooted plants and bury them in the gravel.

I bet my onion plants have come uprooted 50 times so far. :) Problem with them is half the bulb must remain above the substract so keeping them in has been a headache. They still are going strong tho and have grown 4 inches and the grass is growing well. Not spreading yet but getting a nice root system.

I was reading in a planted forum the other night that all tank plants actually need is iron at their roots....iron tabs. That the roots require the fertilizer and not the leaves as roots are what take it in. This gives me cause to wonder as how are house plants fertilized? At their roots. You don't fertilize the leaves. So now this will bring another discussion. LOL

[Chrona]

Java fern, and all types of moss take in nutrients solely through the leaf. Many other varieties also take in a portion through the leaf, such as fast growing stems. It really depends on the type of plant.


Flourite was a royal PITA in the beginning, but I think it's all worth it now. The key difference between gravel and planting substrate is that gravel doesn't not hold onto nutrients for the plants (no/low CEC), whereas clay/flourite/etc do. You are right about the color though, lol. I wish I had gone Ecocomplete or something.

Oh, and BOOOOO!!!! ;)

[Lady Hobbs]

Oh, and BOOOOO!!!! ;)

???

[Chrona]

I don't care for the fluorite which will give me a bunch of boo's here I suspect.

:hmm3grin2orange:

[Lady Hobbs]

Well, I feel better after this read about plants today and no nitrates. This plant article claims you may show no nitrates but they are constantly being introduced into your tank.

Showing NO nitrates only means you have low nitrates.

Always remember that an undetectable nitrate level does not mean your plants are deprived of nitrates, the production of nitrates is continuous. No detectable nitrate means they are not excessive. Nitrate production however is constant in your tank.

I feel better now. The article also claims if you only have a reading of 5.0 for nitrates that your plants will do fine. One more thing I will not concern myself with any further.

[sergo]

thanks for the info hobbs. i still show 0 ppm nitrate, i guess i'll just keep supplementing.

[Lady Hobbs]

I thought I was personally going nuts when I often hear you have to have nitrates. What the heck. If your test shows 0 then you feel like you're losing it.

I earlier posted to Chrona that my planted tank had nitrates. Well, that was guessing from yesterday so just now did another test and now have 0 in my planted tank as well. LOL

A few days ago I had 20 on nitrates in my unplanted 55 tank and thought now what's doing that? I changed out my nasty floss and did a water change and now that's back to 0 as well. My conclusion comes to one thing. Dirty filters have to contain excess food and that may lead to higher nitrates. I can find no other explanation. I change my filter floss out every other week and often rinse it off the week between so keep it very clean. Perhaps this is the reason but more than likely I will never figure it out or ever get an explanation I can understand.

[Chrona]

In an unplanted tank, you should always have some nitrates. If you had 20ppm before, doing a 50% water change would bring it down to 10ppm, regardless of what you cleaned, because the nitrates are still in the water. If you have 20ppm before a 50% water change and 0 afterwards, then something is up with the test kit. You technically can never remove 100% of nitrates from the water through partial water changes alone. Again, I think the main issue is the inaccuracy of hobby level testing kits (I mean, you are comparing a see through round vial to a solid, flat chart - so many factors can change the apparent coloration in the vial it's not even funny). Some people use Lamotte test kits, which, while really expensive, often gives way different results than say, API.

[Lady Hobbs]

Here are my results from planted tank left and unplanted right.

Flash actually makes liquid look more orange than it is but still I eeek out at somewhere between 0 and 5. and my guess-timate is closer to about 3.

It's not the test kits. I'm probably on the 5th or 6th set of kits and always use the same kind. If I have an uncycled tank or a tank that's been set back, it works fine and I get high amounts. It certainly doesn't work part of the time and the rest of the time not work.

I am not concerned about this in the least. I've always had next to nothing nitrates and was only surprised when mine jumped to 20 last week. This is also the same tank that was getting too much light and I got that green nasty algae for a couple days, as well, so that could have spiked it. It could also be due to the fact that I have very hard water. Who the heck knows.

I should have taken another pic and maybe it would have shown the real color even better but ......here she is.

[Chrona]

Know that I think about it, you're probably right. The blue-green algae (slimy stuff) you had is caused by low nitrates (which could explain why you have an outbreak after each water change). Still not really sure why some people's nitrate readings are so low, but meh. You could always try adding some nitates to the planted tank. 10-20 ppm really doesn't bother any fish but discus.

[Lady Hobbs]

which could explain why you have an outbreak after each water change??????

HUH. Outbreak of what?

I got the green algae because I opened my curtains and let the direct light hit my tank.......trying to add some light to the pots of plants I had.

[Chrona]

which could explain why you have an outbreak after each water change??????

HUH. Outbreak of what?

I got the green algae because I opened my curtains and let the direct light hit my tank.......trying to add some light to the pots of plants I had.

It's a slimey blue-green algae right? On the plants? The soft green algae usually only grows on glass (for me). Blue-green algae (actually cyanobacteria) is caused by high light + low nitrates.

[Lady Hobbs]

Yes, my dear. But it happened only that one time in over a year and a half. LOL You said outbreak after each water change which tossed me a curve.

I closed the drapes again, cleaned the tank and now is crystal clear as usual.

Fishies are happy campers and so is Lady Hobbs.

[Chrona]

Yes, my dear. But it happened only that one time in over a year and a half. LOL You said outbreak after each water change which tossed me a curve.

I closed the drapes again, cleaned the tank and now is crystal clear as usual.

Fishies are happy campers and so is Lady Hobbs.

Wait, didn'y you say before that your tank got an outbreak after each water change? Lemme find the thread :P

[Chrona]

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=5215

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=5164

Well? :P

What color was the scum? You are starting to confuse me now..lol

[sergo]

you guys are making my head hurt.

[Chrona]

Live plants make my head hurt too. Luckily my LFS sells Advil at the counter.

[Lady Hobbs]

Nope. We are talking two totally different tanks! LOL The lightbulb just turned on as to the confusion.

Planted tank......two big water changes = two algae outbreaks due to set-backs in cycle.

Unplanted.....only one algae outbreak once since set up over a year and a half ago. Due to too much light. Comprende?

Boy, where can a conversation go? All I wanted to do was show you my nitrates. LOLOLOLOL

[Lady Hobbs]

you guys are making my head hurt.

Tell me about it. I'm gonna go hammer down those two shots of nitrates in a minute.

[sergo]

well all righty then!
btw hobbs by comparison to my nitrate readings, you have out 50 pmm in comparision to mine. mine stay bright yellow.

[Lady Hobbs]

Good to know I'm not the only one. Makes you doubt your sanity when they say it can't happen. Welcome to my world. LOL

[MzCarr]

my nitrates are high, my plants in fish are dying although all else seems fine. How do i lower my nitrates? plz help

[MzCarr]

my nitrates are high, my plants in fish are dying although all else seems fine. How do i lower my nitrates? plz help
I'm new to this site, Hi. I have a tank and I'm still learning. My nitrates are very high, my plants and fish are having a hard time. I'm trying not to lose any more fish. Can I have some suggestion on how to lower my nitrates....plz help asap

[Goes to 11!]

Do 2 75% water changes back to back - Use Dechlor -

Just a heads up that this thread is almost 5 years old.

Posting a thread one in the proper forum will get more replies to future questions, Welcome BTW.:22:

[Cliff]

MzCarr: It would be best for you to post your questions in your own thread

[Lady Hobbs]

This thread is 4 years old people.

MzCarr, start your own thread please and not open up 4 year old threads. Set your options so you are not viewing these old threads.

Correction......this thread is 5 years old.