stocking for a 25 gal?

[KatzeSlaugen]

i recently got a 25 gallon along with 2 HOB filters rated for 30 gallons for free. my question is are there any cichlids you reccomed for a tank this size? i was looking at dwarf cichlids but the problem is there arent any around here at any of my 3 LFS.

any suggestions or reccomendations?
is 25 gallons enough room?

edit: my water is hard (been a while since i did all the conversions to dGH but it was at 16 degrees. and the PH sit right around 7.8)

[Sharkman]

25 gallons would be suitable for a lot of apistogrammas. One male and 2 or 3 females would be good in that size. You could get some kribensis instead. Point is that you can get 4 or even 5 apistos or other dwarf cichlids in that size if you have the right ratio of males to females which is usually one male for every 3 females or 4 females. If you run both of those hobs it would help too giving the tank lots of filtration.

[KatzeSlaugen]

thank you very much for the speedy response and info. i will be stopping by my LFS tonight to see if any of them can order them into the store for me

[Red]

You could also look at german blue rams, or bolivian rams too! Keyholes are another great little cichlid.

[KatzeSlaugen]

i really love the looks of the rams and the fact that theyre peaceful! would 2 GBRs and a school of corys work?

[Red]

Yeah, but if your going to buy rams, I would try to find tank raised ones.

EDIT: This is why not to buy asian rams!
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[KatzeSlaugen]

will most fish stores know if theirs are tank raised or wild caught?

[Red]

Yes, ask them. Tank raised will be a bit more, but well better. Asian breds rams you want to avoid. If they say they got them from the supplier, that means they are asian bred

[KatzeSlaugen]

ive been doing alot of research on GBRs and apistogrammas in praticular because i think ive narrowed my choices down to them.

they both prefer ph quite lower than mine as well as soft water. is it wrong to assume thats wild caught ones? from what ive read captive bred fish are usually raised in a ph around nuetral or higher.

will it still work even though i have a high ph?

[Red]

How high is your PH? As long as you acclimate a long time, and not too high, you will be fine. There is also natural ways on lowering your PH, as in driftwood and peat moss.

[KatzeSlaugen]

my ph sits at right around 7.6-7.8 i do have a relatively large piece of driftwood as well as a smaller piece and the ph hasnt changed much at all from my tap water. i believe its because my water is really well buffered. i do have a pot of water and tannic acid from the latest piece of driftwood i made for someone (took fake plastic ground cover decor and made a tree out of it). would putting that into the water move it over from basic to more acidic?

where would be a good place to get peat moss and would it really make a difference? from what ive been researching your ph will drop if you run peat in your filter but unless you get rid of the hardness buffering your ph will then rise again?

edit: thank you for the patiece btw im not new to aquariums but i am very new to cichlids and im a brain sponge person where i want to know everything and personal experiences before i buy. dont want to make my fish unhappy!

[Dixie]

Just wanted to say I'm so proud of you for doing the research before buying the fish. Two thumbs up for ya!!!!!!!! ;)

[rangur1]

ive been doing alot of research on GBRs and apistogrammas in praticular because i think ive narrowed my choices down to them.

they both prefer ph quite lower than mine as well as soft water. is it wrong to assume thats wild caught ones? from what ive read captive bred fish are usually raised in a ph around nuetral or higher.

will it still work even though i have a high ph?

OUTSTANDING! i was scrolling down and i noticed everyone was recomending rams. you noticed that your hardness and ph were no where near ideal for these fish. your water is suited for african cichlids.
on the other hand you could "soften" your water by adding peat in a bag placed in your filter.

[Wild Turkey]

High 7's is fine for pretty much whatever. I never see African tanks under 8+

Regardless, a lot of people keep "black water" fish in high ph tanks. Since most of the fish you get the at lfs as tank bred anyway, it usually doesnt present a problem. The ph being stable is the most important thing.

You have enough room for a small school of somethings(say, 6 neons or what have you) and a pair of dwarf cichlids

[Dixie]

My pH, if I remember right, is 7.9 and I have african cichlids (mbuna). They do fine in my water. I tried a couple rams in a 10g. tank with some neons and panda cories with just a small piece of driftwood to lower the pH (though I never tested to see if it worked). The tank soon came down with ich (think the neons brought it in) the rams were the first to perish. The first one even before I noticed the ich. Nothing survided the ich and treatment for it except 2 cories. I love rams and would like to try them again but kinda afraid in case my pH is to high.

[thatcichlidguy]

Well since this is the malawi section, have you given thought to a small group of P. demasoni ?

[thatcichlidguy]

High 7's is fine for pretty much whatever. I never see African tanks under 8+

Regardless, a lot of people keep "black water" fish in high ph tanks. Since most of the fish you get the at lfs as tank bred anyway, it usually doesnt present a problem. The ph being stable is the most important thing.

You have enough room for a small school of somethings(say, 6 neons or what have you) and a pair of dwarf cichlids
Of the three major African rift lakes only lake Tangyanikya (spelling) has a Ph above 8. Victoria and Malawi are mid to upper 7 respectively. I believe lake Edward is something like that of Victoria for Ph. With that said , most tank raised fish are pretty adaptable and can acclimate well to most tap water.

[domjd05]

Thats true, as long as they aren't wild caught. I've know of a woman that even bred discus in water with a ph of 7.4, I'm guessing they were not wild caught, but its possible, many discus are still wild

[Dixie]

I disagree with a small group of demasoni. From what I've read time after time, they are so aggressive to each other that you need a group of at least 12 or you will end up with only one. I don't think the tank is big enough for them either. All the malawi species I can think of should have at least a 55g. tank.

[Dixie]

Oooops I think the o.p. now has a 55g. tank to work with...correct?

[thatcichlidguy]

It was just a though .

[Wild Turkey]

Oooops I think the o.p. now has a 55g. tank to work with...correct?

That changes things considerably

Cichlid guy, Im not an expert on Africans. However, the fact that I rarely see African tanks under 8 still remains true. My point being "no, 7.6 is not "african cichlids tap water" you can keep pretty much whatever you like. Thats all ;)

Im sure most African Tanks are so high because higher doesnt matter and its easier to keep the ph stable that way

My tap is 7.6 actually

[thatcichlidguy]

Im sure most African Tanks are so high because higher doesnt matter and its easier to keep the ph stable that way
That and the commercial buffers usually set the water there or close to it. I agree with you though that anything under 8 is fair game for most fish. The overall hardness seems to matter a bit more . Especially when spawning softwater fish like Rams.

[KatzeSlaugen]

yea i have a 55gal to work with now sorry for the while to update i started another thread but never remembered to correct this one.